Opinions on a spicy Zoraida 2 build!

[Mindbadger]

I normally play Neverborn and have been trying out Zoraida 2 a bit, but I've been struggling to make her feel as impactful as Zoraida 1 so I've decided to give her a run in Bayou to see if that would make her feel like a stronger pick.

The main reason for this are the upgrades. Ancient Pact is undoubtably good, but there seems to be some good synergies with the Bayou upgrades and Swampfiends, Zoraida 2 in particular, Inferiority Complex in particular.

Ruthless is a great ability to have on an expensive beater like Juju or The First Mate, but Swagger works amazingly well with Zoraida 2's Moth Witch ability. Walking with Zoraida will let 2 beaters with the upgrade walk and then gain focus, essentially netting 5APs benefit (3 walks and 2 concentrates) for 1APs usage. That seems very powerful to me.

The next upgrade that seems quite beneficial would be Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit. Giving Disguised to a model who already has Stealth, makes it very hard for the enemy to pick the fight on their terms and forces some kind of AP expenditure to attack the model (move then attack instead of just charge or shoot). Summoning a Bayou Gremlin on death is a neat little bonus, though unlikely to be too helpful. Giving a bonus action gun can be more useful though on models without great bonus actions.

Although Silurids would seem to be a decent choice for this as they are pretty good models anyway, I rarely find myself not wanting to use leap, making the gun bonus a bit less good. However, Bayou Gators would benefit from it a lot more as Ambush isn't always useful or as impactful. I know that gators aren't considered that great, they are pretty squishy, but they can pump out some serious damage, especially if empowered by Zoraida 2's Witch's Brew! Suddenly they become Ruthless, move 6, stat 6 flurry models with built in puncture and a possible execute. They even get stat 6 on the bonus action gun! That is a reasonable amount of damage on a 5 (7) point model! Even if it dies (which again, can be quite tricky with the Stealth, Disguised and increased stats), they should be able to trade off.

Against certain keywords, a decent amount of Ruthless models would negate a lot of defences and could do some serious damage letting you take control of the board from there for scoring purposes. Zoraida 2 already gives you a lot of mobility, being able to do a lot of damage exactly where you need it or just score as needed.

So what are your opinions on this kind of plan? How have you found Zoraida 2 in Bayou? I'm fairly sure the upgraded Gators might be a bit too gimmicky, but Inferiority Complex on expensive models seems worth it.

[Math Mathonwy]

I've been concentrating Z2 more on evasion and scoring as opposed to beating but I do think that the principle sounds solid on getting the Move + Focus on a couple of beaters. Swamp Mother could be one possible choice as her damage track really benefits from Focus a lot.

As for the Gators, I'm maybe in the minority here but I really don't like them much. The 0" reach and 5 Wds tends to make them extremely delicate instruments that can rather easily die without accomplishing anything. Disguised makes them sturdier (or rather, the opponent often needs to dedicate a bit more resources to dispatching them) but at 7 points they make very enticing targets so I dunno.

If you do end up testing them, I would be very interested in hearing your results, though!

As for Z1 vs Z2 I feel that the real difference is whether the opponent utilizes Markers or not. Z2 gets an immense boost if there's Ice Pillars or Pyres or Pylons or whatnot for her to munch on. Summoning Effigies is also really quite powerful simply due to how durable they are.

[Mindbadger]

Yeah, that was how I played her before, focused more on mobility. I think that worked well in GG2, with strats like Symbols, but from what I've seen in GG3 so far, you have to get a lot more up close and personal, either to hold objectives (Guard the Stash) or kill things (Cursed Objects). Both of the other strats force you to be in a similar area to your opponent.

Zoraida 2 adds a lot of mobility to an already mobile crew, but I found that eventually my models would be caught and whittled down, and I was winning by just staying ahead on points or by summoning more models to compensate. Either way, it felt a bit lacking compared to Zoraida 1.

I don't think you are in the minority with disliking the Gators, I don't think I've actually seen much positive said about them. They seem a bit unexplored with Zoraida 2 though, so I thought I'd give them a go. You are correct though that upgrading cheap models will make them more tempting targets but if they manage to charge in and get 3 attacks and a gun shot, I'd probably be happy trading them off. They are very glass cannony, I guess it's about finding the right time to pull the trigger with them.

I have a different crew scheduled for my next game, but I'll try to give both ideas a shot and report back on the game after.

[Mindbadger]

Finally got around to trying Zoraida 2 again with Inferiority Complex on two beaters. It was... ok. Definitely got the value of adding focus to the moves until the beaters died, but really struggling to click with her compared to Zoraida 1. She definitely has potential and has some cool tricks, but I just massively prefer her first version.

[Nosilloc]

On 8/21/2022 at 4:32 PM, Mindbadger said:

Finally got around to trying Zoraida 2 again with Inferiority Complex on two beaters. It was... ok. Definitely got the value of adding focus to the moves until the beaters died, but really struggling to click with her compared to Zoraida 1. She definitely has potential and has some cool tricks, but I just massively prefer her first version.

Have you considered summoning Mannequins to protect your beaters? 

[Mindbadger]

7 hours ago, Nosilloc said:

Have you considered summoning Mannequins to protect your beaters? 

I haven't actually, I don't have the models and didn't give them much thought. I could see how they would be good for absorbing a crucial hit or two.

Zoraida 2 is pretty card hungry as it is though, so an extra discard for Take the Hit might be tough. You're giving up the draw two from Lost Knowledge to summon the Mannequin, then having to discard for Take the Hit (plus discards for Moth Witch and Protected). I felt like I was spending most of my master's activation trying to draw cards to make up for all the discards. 

[Nosilloc]

15 hours ago, Mindbadger said:

I haven't actually, I don't have the models and didn't give them much thought. I could see how they would be good for absorbing a crucial hit or two.

Zoraida 2 is pretty card hungry as it is though, so an extra discard for Take the Hit might be tough. You're giving up the draw two from Lost Knowledge to summon the Mannequin, then having to discard for Take the Hit (plus discards for Moth Witch and Protected). I felt like I was spending most of my master's activation trying to draw cards to make up for all the discards. 

Only the summon is once per turn though. You can still use the action again to draw two? Bring more card draw?

[Mindbadger]

4 hours ago, Nosilloc said:

Only the summon is once per turn though. You can still use the action again to draw two? Bring more card draw?

Sure, but then you're using two AP on your master for that, limiting your other options. If you want to use Moth Witch (which I was trying to build around), that's another 2 cards down. It seems like more effort for less pay off than Zoraida 1.

As someone else said though, against a keyword which relies on markers of some kind, it would probably be much stronger.