DeadManTalking Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 Ok so a friend of mine has been running a list that is just rough to play against so I'm looking for suggestions on how to counter play against it. His list is: Lord Cooper 3x Runaways Jedza2 Artemis Ullr 2x Vatagi Huntsmen Empyrean Eagle This is nasty if you haven't faced it. Cooper will kill any model that steps into his LoS. If you try to get in Cooper's face then Jedza mercs your attack piece. So you can't trade at range and getting in close is nearly as rough. Yes I know killing doesn't always score points, but it definitely stops me from scoring points if my models are dead. What are your thoughts on countering this list if you knew it was gonna be played regardless of scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 Dunno the terrain, dunno about scenario, but Seamus1 or Kirai 2 (Possibly 1) would be my initial answers. I ran K2 against a Cooper list using 2 Gwisin with GST each. Cooper can't 1 shot a Gwisin with a severe, and with both of them in range guarding each other as well as K2, 2 shots won't kill either one as well, as long as they are full up to start. Coupled with Terror if he targets one and you let him go after that one (yes I know if you TtH that instance ignores terror), and regen tossing with Anchor to reality, as well as Seishin, you can either let him kill something you don't care about, or toss the dmg back and forth between the Gwisin while K2 advances and throws the Ikiryo into his face, which Jedza is fine to kill as you can just resummon another one. Seamus1 has a similar gun, but better in some ways, and its effectively a longer range, as he can jump 12", shoot 10", and jump back behind blocking terrain, hiding from LoS. In this case I'd likely try to stay out of his LoS, and possibly swamp him with models that will be inefficient for him to kill. Swamp him with low cost, high wound models with H2W or H2K, so it is inefficient actionwise for him to murder them all with his gun, while using Seamus to jump in and kill as fast as possible any of his models that are advancing up the board trying to score. Force him to have to use the models he spent lots of points on to remove your models to score his points so his models are used inefficiently. That would be my initial strategy in anywise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted June 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 I honestly hadn't thought of K2 even though I've played her a few times since getting back into Malifaux. I do like the idea for that list so may have to try it out. I don't have any experience with Seamus yet, I keep hearing good things about him but I can't see it just looking at his cards so I'll have to try him out at some point. Right now I have Kirai1&2, Yan1&2, VonSchtook1, Jack Daw1, McMourning1&2. As you can see the other issue is I have too many masters I want to play, so don't feel like I've mastered any of them lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 K2 would be my suggestion then. She can swamp him in models from Join Us, and has a disposable beater she can throw in his face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 Another angle to consider if scheme marker schemes are in the pool is McMourning. Corpse upgrade unlocks one shots on the eagle, and you can generally run down his stuff. You have loads of disposable models you can just throw into his face with the scheme marker upgrade and then when they die they drop two scheme markers. In general a summoner seems good here because him killing one or two models a turn matters less if you're summoning one model per turn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiersonsMuppeteer Posted June 20, 2022 Report Share Posted June 20, 2022 Jack1 looks good into that specific list as well. I don't think you can take Jack into every pool, but you'll get some nice options for dealing with the specified Cooper list when you do: Terrifying: Copper and Jedza both lack Ruthless. Cooper only has WP 5, so Cooper has to activate early to make sure he's got the cards to cheat through it. Incorporeal: Bear traps, Geodes, and Jedza's ability to move them around become a non-factor. Durability: Hanged w/ GST and smart SS use can traverse open ground mostly unafraid of Cooper. Jack doesn't care about Jedza's irreducible damage. Executes: Hand pressure from Terrifying, Dead Man's Collar, Shared Guilt, and Forbidden Knowledge will put a lot of weight on SS use to avoid death. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 It’s not your list. It’s the board and the objectives. - But as others have said. Leverage Explorers weakness in low Wp to deal with Terrifying and Kirai2s forced summoning if he likes to clump up. Seamus is perfect for dealing with the mutts, and once they’re gone Cooper is in a sore spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 One key question to always ask against double masters is "Can I just kill their models that score points and then win on points? My last tournament game my opponent killed 60 stones of my models and I killed less than 10 of his, but I won on points. Can you kill the eagle, the two dogs, and then laugh as he has nothing to score with? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted June 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: One key question to always ask against double masters is "Can I just kill their models that score points and then win on points? My last tournament game my opponent killed 60 stones of my models and I killed less than 10 of his, but I won on points. Can you kill the eagle, the two dogs, and then laugh as he has nothing to score with? So typically he takes this list into games where at least scheme wise he can score his points without any of his minions and without having to travel far. If assassinate is in the pool he's probably taking this list. In the last game I faced him it was Break the Line and he took Assassinate and Detonate Charges. He will hide his dogs and the eagle behind the masters or run them so far down a flank that to go after them would mean overextending myself and likely exposing myself to Cooper if not Jedza as well. I am probably losing sight of the objectives at times, like I know I misplayed Vendetta in our last game which cost me, but this list is very oppressive to play against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemiMurgos Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 I'm a complete newb to this, but reading up on Lord Cooper my immediate idea was Zoraida or any Neverborn who can use the Waldgeists. The guy ignores Cover but not Concealment, you just plant a whole forest wherever you need to hide... Small help, but anything counts on the battlefield. Or really, anyone who can create concealment or blocking terrain for your advantage could help, and as I've seen, Cooper does not even have the Blow 'em to hell ability to easily remove anything like that. @Maniacal_cackle McMourning is delightfully annoying with his whole poison mech, but you'd have to get them close enough to make it work on Cooper and the crew is made of wet paper against him. Unless you own the entire available set for McMourning to find the sweet combo, I think he'd be sniped down before he could do anything. I'd try a Fuhatsu+Samurai enhanced Lucas1 against him (both have 14" range machine guns), just to see how a "nimble" but ranged crew would do against Cooper. Lucas could handle two severe wounds on horse and then one more on foot. It all really depends on the terrain and the schemes, though, Lucas1 is terrible for anything scheme-marker related. Drop a teleporting Huckster in the mix that can jump shadows in a 12" radius and you can tie the dogs/eagles down for a round if you are lucky. Hucksters are also good to steal stones for yourself and they put down 2 scheme markers with the False witness ability, so also good if you need a quick scheming while hiding in the shadows (the only saving grace for McCabe in this regard). I'd just accept defeat against Cooper and then play for tidying up the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted June 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 @DemiMurgos I appreciate the input, but I'm looking specifically for Rezzer answers not other factions. Being able to place down concealing terrain markers would be nice but I play around the terrain always. Cooper has very easy ways to get through concealment but it does mean he's not positive flipping the attacks so it does help to an extent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 Another model to consider is the Valedictorian. Stones and hard to wound mean he can't straight flip you, and stunning Jedza shuts off her trigger for extra devastating damage. You'd probably want to back her up with sloth heals, who also has stones and hard to wound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted June 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Another model to consider is the Valedictorian. Stones and hard to wound mean he can't straight flip you, and stunning Jedza shuts off her trigger for extra devastating damage. You'd probably want to back her up with sloth heals, who also has stones and hard to wound. I've actually played Schtook1 into this matchup a few times. My opponent tends to hang back a bit more then with a pit trap in right in front of Cooper so if Valedictorian trys to alpha then she's usually shot off the board before she can get off significant damage. I will say my luck has been God awful recently and my opponent has insanely good luck like all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 Do you have a picture of one of your boards to get a feel for terrain? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted June 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 Sadly I don't, we have been experimenting with adding more terrain. The board we faced off last time had 3 large forests and 5 large blocking pieces that cut off major sight lines down the middle of the board. The edges had the longest sight lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted June 22, 2022 Report Share Posted June 22, 2022 Could always go OP Yan lo and just stun and hole in the world jedza into your crew and kill her behind terrain xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn King Posted June 24, 2022 Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 Jack Daw, Hanged, and "On your heels" triggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadManTalking Posted June 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2022 On 6/22/2022 at 2:16 AM, Maniacal_cackle said: Could always go OP Yan lo and just stun and hole in the world jedza into your crew and kill her behind terrain xD I did try Yan2 into this matchup and that was the closest I've come to beating it. I think with a few more practice games with Yan2 it could be a viable option. 7 hours ago, Autumn King said: Jack Daw, Hanged, and "On your heels" triggers. I actually just picked up Daw and plan on trying him out soon. He looks super oppressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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