McMourning 2

[OracleToronto]

I was just curious if there are any good vassal videos or other guides for new McMourning. 

McMouring was one of my first masters and I love the feel and fluff of the title version even more so - but I would love to see some game play of how the crew works. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm hopefully posting one tomorrow, but here's some quick thoughts:

Efficiency:

McMourning can do a million super power, super cool things. But they're only really competitively good when you polish them to be hyper-efficient. So keep an eye on your durdle engines and make sure they're not getting out of control.

Summon engine:

Pretty much every McMourning build I do has a summon engine. Currently my favourite is a Gravedigger with Killer Instinct, a Canine Remains, and a Mindless Zombie (using the 4-marker trick from the MWS where you kill the zombie twice).

Whatever engine you construct, be mindful that you may need to produce corpses in turns 2 or 3 if you want continued summoning, and you may need to summon through disruption.

Plastic Surgery tricks:

There's a ton of tricks to plastic surgery. Basically none of them are as powerful as just going "plastic surgery rogue necro attack onto McMourning and spam Pouncing Strike trigger."

That said, it is worth figuring out the plastic surgery backup plans in whatever lists you make. Sometimes you don't even have rogue necromancy, and sometimes there are game-winning plays.

For example I've put Vincent's exorcism trigger onto a flesh construct to kill a summon before.

Card draw:

Draw cards from removing markers when you don't need to replace them. Your shit minions have nothing else to do? Double tap the interact action to make and remove a marker to draw a card.

Upgrade tricks:

There's a ton of stuff on the upgrades and it is worth learning every bit of text, but these are the most powerful things in my experience:

• +2 move - this can offer serious help in scoring points. Best on flesh constructs because they can act three times and get +6" per turn. Also have a good damage track for charge through, but that's a minor consideration.
• Scheme markers - you can score basically any of the scheme marker schemes with these. Especially if comboed with horrendous corpse. Canine remains with a scheme marker upgrade? When it dies it scores detonate charges.
• Flurry on Rogue Necromancy/whatever. Eh, combat isn't McMourning 2's specialty IMO (we have better masters for that), but a good beater can help the rest of your game plan.

But as I said, worth learning and using every other bit of text.

Scoring power:

Mcmourning himself is move 6 with don't mind me. He scores like a badass when he wants to.

List building:

I personally don't recommend going overboard on keyword models. I literally hired just a canine remains from the keyword in my last list, and ended up having plenty to do with my keyword models between the totem, canine, and summons.

Practice your unpack:

His unpack is so complicated, just open up vassal or grab your physical models and run through it a few times with any given list. Eventually you'll have it off by heart, but even ~20 games in I still have to practice sometimes.

[Maniacal_cackle]

 

Apologies that the card view didn't work.

[Silbuster]

Rusty tools;

Target suffers 2 damage and gains injured +1. If the target is a friendly experimental model, it instead gains poison +2.

This can be read either as:

If the target is a friendly experimental model, it suffers no damage and gains poison +2.

or:

If the target is a friendly experimental model, it suffers 2 damage and gains poison +2.

What is the consensus as regards the correct interpretation?

[Paddywhack]

First one.

First sentence says what it normally does. Second sentence says what to do instead of the first sentence if the target is a Friendly Experimental. Friendlies only suffer Poison +2 - no damage. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

55 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

First one.

First sentence says what it normally does. Second sentence says what to do instead of the first sentence if the target is a Friendly Experimental. Friendlies only suffer Poison +2 - no damage. 

This is how I play it.

Which gets really awkward if you need to punch a marker out of a friend with McMourning.... But you can plastic surgery an attack so that you can do it.

[DeadManTalking]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, @Maniacal_cackle what is the 4 marker trick?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, DeadManTalking said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, @Maniacal_cackle what is the 4 marker trick?

• Load up a mindless zombie with poison 3
• Kill the zombie
• It drops a marker for horrendous corpse
• It drops a marker for dying
• Recyle Reduce Reuse lets you slap the model back on the table (check with your TO that your meta plays it this way).
• Mindless zombie is at 0 health so dies again.
• Drops a marker for horrendous corpse
• Drops a marker for dying.
• RRR draws a card.

 

[Adran]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

• Load up a mindless zombie with poison 3
• Kill the zombie
• It drops a marker for horrendous corpse
• It drops a marker for dying
• Recyle Reduce Reuse lets you slap the model back on the table (check with your TO that your meta plays it this way).
• Mindless zombie is at 0 health so dies again.
• Drops a marker for horrendous corpse
• Drops a marker for dying.
• RRR draws a card.

 

This does sound wrong, but the only thing I can say about it at the moment is I don't think the model ever stops being killed to be killed again, so you won't get the second horrendous corpse.

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, Adran said:

This does sound wrong, but the only thing I can say about it at the moment is I don't think the model ever stops being killed to be killed again, so you won't get the second horrendous corpse.

Well, it is a tricky one, but I know of no other situation where you go all the way to step 6d and remove a model from the table and then put it back on the table with 0 health. How does it get removed again if it doesn't die again?

[Adran]

8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Well, it is a tricky one, but I know of no other situation where you go all the way to step 6d and remove a model from the table and then put it back on the table with 0 health. How does it get removed again if it doesn't die again?

My argument is not that it doesn't die again but rather it doesn't ever stop being killed by the first effect.

If you used the zombie as a corpse marker that is  removed because of the effect so it becomes killed, using RRR won't stop the zombie being killed even though it's not on 0 health. 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

46 minutes ago, Adran said:

My argument is not that it doesn't die again but rather it doesn't ever stop being killed by the first effect.

If you used the zombie as a corpse marker that is  removed because of the effect so it becomes killed, using RRR won't stop the zombie being killed even though it's not on 0 health. 

 

I think you misunderstand. The idea is that you kill the zombie via damage.  Because it is killed via damage, it is removed from the table (dropping two corpses on the table before removing it).

But RRR says when you remove a marker (Mindless zombie) from the table you get to put that same marker (zombie) back on the table.

Then what happens? Although guess we could take it to the rules forum.

[Adran]

6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think you misunderstand. The idea is that you kill the zombie via damage.  Because it is killed via damage, it is removed from the table (dropping two corpses on the table before removing it).

But RRR says when you remove a marker (Mindless zombie) from the table you get to put that same marker (zombie) back on the table.

Then what happens? Although guess we could take it to the rules forum.

I think you misunderstood, i understand you are killing it with damage, then using RRR to put it on the table again, where it will then be removed again as it is on 0 wounds.

From what I see, you put the "killed" zombie on the table. It is still a killed model so it goes (again) through the killed model steps , but it never lost the " killed" status so it never acquired it again to set off horrendous corpse.  I know the steps are on the back of the damage section but you can "kill" a model without damaging it, so those steps can happen any time there is a "killed" model on the table.

I can't see why it would be a poison+3 0wound model that was no longer killed that you are putting on the table. 

Otherwise  if we extrapolate from what you say, we are looking at it being secret tech to let your zombie survive execute for example.

It's a bit like burying or unburying as part of a demise. It won't stop the model being a killed model even if you have moved it. ( not exactly the same, but it's similar). 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Adran

[DeadManTalking]

So what sort of game are you looking for that scream McM2? What are his biggest weaknesses? Are there factions you'll often take him into or factions you avoid taking him into?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Rules stuff shifted to rules forum.

6 hours ago, DeadManTalking said:

So what sort of game are you looking for that scream McM2? What are his biggest weaknesses? Are there factions you'll often take him into or factions you avoid taking him into?

I've always liked McMourning 1 into guild so that's often a consideration, though with titles that doesn't work as well.

Mcm 1s big weakness is anti healing. Mcm2 is very annoyed by exorcism triggers.

But in general, scheme marker heavy pools have me eye up McMourning because he is one of the best in faction for dropping scheme markers.

I also consider him for pools where summons are really good, like Leylines.

[OracleToronto]

Do you find models like Bone piles or Bete are good with Mcmourning2 seeing as he can get a lot more uses out of corpse markers?

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, OracleToronto said:

Do you find models like Bone piles or Bete are good with Mcmourning2 seeing as he can get a lot more uses out of corpse markers?

 

I still haven't tried it. He had so much build flexibility that I haven't tried half the stuff I want to!

In theory I'm slightly worried about getting corpses into position,  but I'm sure it'd be easy.

Another issue is he is already good at throwing schemers all over the map, so not sure he needs them?

But actually Bete Noire is amazing at Vendetta pools so gotta try her for sure.

I also want to find an excuse to try Grave golem as it will always have markers xD

[OracleToronto]

3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Another issue is he is already good at throwing schemers all over the map, so not sure he needs them?

I was thinking of the Bonepiles as added range pressure on the opponents and condition removal (as they can remove a corpse marker after each action it takes) so it could fire twice - healing the 2 damage it does to itself.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, OracleToronto said:

I was thinking of the Bonepiles as added range pressure on the opponents and condition removal (as they can remove a corpse marker after each action it takes) so it could fire twice - healing the 2 damage it does to itself.

Oh true, the huge amounts of healing could be relevant.

Makes them potential martyrs or catch and release models too.

This is why I feel like McMourning is something I need to solo for a month. He is perhaps as flexible as Molly, and can accommodate almost anything in the faction.

[OracleToronto]

yeah i just realized doing two actions near a corpse marker could heal it 4 and draw you a card

 

[DeadManTalking]

On 6/28/2022 at 3:34 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

But in general, scheme marker heavy pools have me eye up McMourning because he is one of the best in faction for dropping scheme markers.

I also consider him for pools where summons are really good, like Leylines.

What are some tricks of his for scheme marker dropping? He's got Don't Mind Me, and when you knock off a Spare Head upgrade. Is there something else I'm missing? 

I have heard that summoner are good at leylines a few times and I'm not seeing what makes them so good at it. What am I missing? Is it just that you can throw spare bodies at your opponents to slow their football carrier down?

[Arlos896]

3 hours ago, DeadManTalking said:

What are some tricks of his for scheme marker dropping? He's got Don't Mind Me, and when you knock off a Spare Head upgrade. Is there something else I'm missing? 

I have heard that summoner are good at leylines a few times and I'm not seeing what makes them so good at it. What am I missing? Is it just that you can throw spare bodies at your opponents to slow their football carrier down?

Horrendous Corpse, when any model dies with +3 or more poison you can either drop a corpse or scheme marker within 2". Spare head on a flesh construct and kentauroi can just be immediately dropped without an opposed duel even happening so it's very easy to set up detonate. Corpse Curator can also drag behind a scheme marker when it moves to carry a scheme into position. 

Leyline the summons can end up carrying the lodestone and letting the rest of your crew do as they please. Though also throwing bodies in the way is great too. 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Arlos896
Added additional scheme marker trick

[DeadManTalking]

8 minutes ago, Arlos896 said:

Leyline the summons can end up carrying the lodestone and letting the rest of your crew do as they please. Though also throwing bodies in the way is great too. 

 

 

 

Wait seriously? I thought they were ignored for schemes and strats?

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

51 minutes ago, DeadManTalking said:

Wait seriously? I thought they were ignored for schemes and strats?

Only on the turn they enter. The only permanent limitation on summons is that they can’t interact with Strategy Markers, which doesn’t matter for Leylines.

[HomelessOne]

Heh, barely related, but I have alluded to my collection being...destroyed...

Well we've been going through some packed away boxes as we resort storage and look what I've uncovered: