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Sheesh! The spiritwalker is bonkers!


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Just had my first game with Yan Lo spirit Walker. 

The game was :

Flank Deployment in Break the Line

Schemes were Assassinate, Bait and Switch, Death Beds, Hidden Martyrs, Let Them Bleed. 

I brought :

Yan Lo + Soul Porter

2x Komainu w. Grave Spirit’s Touch

Manos

Toshiro

Yin

+ 8 stones. 

T1 I messed up and divided the two dogs to confuse my opponent in deployment. And put the Yan Lo reliquary on the furthest - I thought it was clever, it was not. 

My opponet send Anya to kick a can, and even if I messed up in deployment, Yan managed to kill the poor girl with his dog. While I kicked two other cans across the line. 

T2 My opponent took his gloves off, half-killed Manos and caught him between two Brockenspectres (one recently summoned). Yet, I managed to kill off both spectres and Manos killed Moordrake, while kicking his can back across the line. Score 1 - 0

T3 Realizing my upper hand relied on Ivan not getting any reinforcements, I put all resources into making Yan Lo stun Ivan. A black joker foiled the first attempt, but the power of his reliquary gave me another attempt - burning my last stone. I killed off two operatives and Corvis Rook - and understandably Ivan gave up. Score 2 - 0

Evaluation

It was my second game with Yan Lo and first with Spiritwalker, and he is bonkers. So fast and able to adapt to the situation in no time. He didn’t feel fair. 

The keyword itself is equally amazing. The speed is unmatched. Manos and Yin just run off and do their thing and the Soul Porter allows you to correct a mess. 

I wasn’t sure about Toshiro, but his ability to heal and pump out Focus was key to the win. I never got to summon an Ashigaru, but that comes with playing vs a keyword with few bodies. I did consider getting him a source of corpse markers, but wanted the stones instead. 

It was definitely powerful, but I’m not sure, I’d say it’s fun.

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Images from the end of turn two. 

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59 minutes ago, ConfuciuSay said:

Yan2 is the next master I plan on learning after I've got more games in with Schtook1. Did you find anything particularly tricky about using Yan2? Were you using more AP on his gun or Obey?

Obeying the dogs were the primary use. I just used his ranged attack to stun Ivan. Had there been armored models, it might have been different. 

And there is nothing tricky about it - apart from Mv duels. In many ways he is the least interesting master around, and he really need to be hit hard with a nerf bat and probably be redesigned from the ground up. 

Yan Lo is good enough, at least you need to make choices, but the Spiritwalker just needs to get on the table and you’re halfway to victory. 

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1 hour ago, ConfuciuSay said:

I guess I just don't see what's so busted about him. He seems good, don't get me wrong but he doesn't seem game breaking in any way compared to some other masters I've seen.

It’s simple math.

He can dump a scheme marker and make a move in one action - basically two actions.

Then make three Obeys that dole out focus - so that’s another six actions.

Then his dog can have him make another Obey - two actions more.

So that’s the equivalent of ten actions - while being able to jump across the board. 

(Not to mention what a Flame Breath’ing dog can do with bonus flips and focus to a crew that’s standing a little too close. That Yan eats markers for cards, and that he can sculpt the top of his deck).

-

And I’ve got opponents ‘complaining’ about Seamus being able to do 4 actions 😄

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On 6/10/2022 at 8:33 PM, Regelridderen said:

It’s simple math.

He can dump a scheme marker and make a move in one action - basically two actions.

Then make three Obeys that dole out focus - so that’s another six actions.

Then his dog can have him make another Obey - two actions more.

So that’s the equivalent of ten actions - while being able to jump across the board. 

(Not to mention what a Flame Breath’ing dog can do with bonus flips and focus to a crew that’s standing a little too close. That Yan eats markers for cards, and that he can sculpt the top of his deck).

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And I’ve got opponents ‘complaining’ about Seamus being able to do 4 actions 😄

I don't think that giving Focus should count as an AP in an analysis such as this and the same goes for dropping Scheme Markers. There's lots of models that can pulse out mass Focus and a lot of models drop Scheme Markers as part of something else. I mean, you don't normally consider Mah Tucket as having ten Actions when she pulses Focus to her crew on the first turn.

That said, Yan Lo2 is crazy powerful.

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I personally think where Yanlo2 seems so powerful Is that unlike many of our resser master his game plan is to score quick and efficiently by himself and his dog(s) which especially in competitive play is how you win games - especially as competitive games struggle to make it to turn 5…. where many of other resser play an attrition style. 

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I think with obeys,  what pushes an obey into powerful territory is if you can get an extra 'action' worth of stuff.

Zoraida of course is best, but Ngaatoro and Yan Lo both offer focus which is one of the best obeys in the game.

I don't think it is as clear cut as being worth a full action, but it wouldnt be far off the mark to say that a komainu with reliquary is basically a 4 ap model.

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3 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Of the Obeys that offer Focus+1 (Yan2, Misaki2, Ngaatoro), Yan2 is the only one who gets the suit for free. Probably one of the aspects that puts Yan2 just above his peers for efficiency. Pretty big not having to use a SS or card for the suit like the others, especially when getting 2-3 extra Focus for free every turn.

Misaki's is relatively free, is it not?

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28 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

I wouldn’t consider the need of a marker, and subsequent opponent counter play, as being free in the same vein as Yan2. While giving Focus+1 on Misaki2’s Obey is fairly easy to achieve, it’s not guaranteed and sometimes needs additional AP to set up.

Or near Shang. But certainly, Yan Lo has it easier. Though Misaki can get her trigger built in when Obeying non-Keyword/enemy models, not to mention having her Obey suited.

 

She's not freewheeling around the map and getting free AP from cheap Minions though. 

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4 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Of the Obeys that offer Focus+1 (Yan2, Misaki2, Ngaatoro), Yan2 is the only one who gets the suit for free. Probably one of the aspects that puts Yan2 just above his peers for efficiency. Pretty big not having to use a SS or card for the suit like the others, especially when getting 2-3 extra Focus for free every turn.

He only gets the free suits on very specific targets, which probably does reduce the efficiency. In general the retainer is going to not be the model you would want the extra action or the focus on in the retainer/ancestor pairing.  Its not possible to give out focus 3 times on his first activations, and you need to hire an ancestor for each retainer you want the free focus on.

Edit- to clarify, if you had a  direct choice between a kimanu and Manos getting focus and an extra action you would normally choose Manos, but because of the free suits, you may well decide that the kimanu is the better choice in many circumstances. 

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Making direct comparisons to other Obey masters is a little iffy.

Yan might only be good at Obeying his minions, but…

The quality of those minion actions is out of this world.

MOVE : moves a dog 7” and Yan upwards of 10”, while handing out focus.

CHARGE pushes a dog 7” and Yan upwards of 10”, while handing out focus to Dam5 attack with +flips

Flame Breath : One of my favorite actions in all crews it is avaible. And with the focus it’s very easy to achieve a Dam4(3) with :blast:blastand handing out burning. 

The only balancing factor is that those minions are ‘only’ Stat5.

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And he’s got a whole crew to do work as well - and other options besides Obey.

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4 hours ago, Adran said:

Its not possible to give out focus 3 times on his first activations, and you need to hire an ancestor for each retainer you want the free focus on.

When running 2 Komainu you only need one Ancestor besides Yan2 to give both free focus. Also 3 Focus is rather trivial to do first turn; fist Komainu has Yan2 reliquary, Final Wishes to give second Komainu a reliquary, Obey K1, Obey K2, and then the Komainu with Yan2 reliquary makes Yan Obey a third time during its activation. 

As said above, the quality of action on the minions due to +2Mv and positive flips makes it close to a no-brainer to hit the retainer minions w/ reliquaries over anything else. 

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I still think the main reason people are salty about Yan2 is the Komainu with easy access to upgrades and Empty Vessel is just bonkers. Mv7 with + flips and Armor 2 and decent stats as well as extra actions thanks to Yan2. Add in GST in Ressers for Regen+2 and Terror11 and whatever Ancestor upgrade you give him -that's a lot on a cheap model. 

They've always been a decent choice, but now with Yan2 needing an Anchor, they really are the best choice and can really make him hard to face. Take Yan2 with just Ashigaru and Gokudo and no Komainu and tell me he's still as nasty to face. Heck, even just remove the +2Mv and that would tone them down quite a bit (maybe not enough). 

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I have been playing a lot of Yan Lo 2 and I have to say the fact the dog's are stat 5 plays a big part in your opponent being able to often stop or tie an important attack. You wouldn't think it plays a big factor but I think that's what keeps it somewhat fair - though still insanely efficient.

But again I feel like its how easily he scores points if your opponent doesn't put in the work to drop him that has him with such a high win ratio. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

Just had my second game with Spiritwalker - and I’m still convinced that he is broken as ****.

While he's very good, there are plenty of other masters that are also bonkers good. I'm curious - please try him without any Komainu and tell me what you think. I really think the problem is Empty Vessel being too good in combination with his Reliquary. Even as you said in the BatRep (if it's the one I'm thinking of), your opponent killed one of your Komainu early and that made you feel some pressure. If he had killed both Komainu or you hadn't brought any at all, how would it have felt? I'm sure he's still good, but without Empty Vessel and Armor 2 (maybe Terrifying and Regen2 in Ressurs), I don't think he'd be seen as such a big issue.  

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3 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

While he's very good, there are plenty of other masters that are also bonkers good. I'm curious - please try him without any Komainu and tell me what you think. I really think the problem is Empty Vessel being too good in combination with his Reliquary. Even as you said in the BatRep (if it's the one I'm thinking of), your opponent killed one of your Komainu early and that made you feel some pressure. If he had killed both Komainu or you hadn't brought any at all, how would it have felt? I'm sure he's still good, but without Empty Vessel and Armor 2 (maybe Terrifying and Regen2 in Ressurs), I don't think he'd be seen as such a big issue.  

Of course his efficiency is dependent on the komainu, but the point is he has his komainu. And you can always bring Toshiro and Ashigaru as a backup to get his reliquary.

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35 minutes ago, Regelridderen said:

Of course his efficiency is dependent on the komainu, but the point is he has his komainu. And you can always bring Toshiro and Ashigaru as a backup to get his reliquary.

Right - but what I'm saying is Yan2 doesn't necessarily need a nerf (well, maybe a small one), but the Komainu does (well, Empty Vessel).

Ashigaru are fine, but they are nothing compared to an Empty Vessel Komainu with Yan2 tagging along. Try Yan2 without any Komainu and I don't think he'll seem as broken. Even Gokudo, which really are never taken with Yan2, are not as good a replacement as Komainu. Empty Vessel giving Mv+2 and + to all duels really takes Yan2 over the edge. 

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