Suggested fixes to performers.

[Jordon]

So its been a while and I've had a few more games with the performer keyword and despite the nice buff that distracted got, I still think the showgirls just aren't pulling their weight. 

My opinion is still the same. I just don't think they have a defined role within this keyword. They have lure, but to what end? Are these models supposed to be scheme runners? Are they supposed to be disruption models? Are they meant to support your crew? In any of these cases, they seem to fall short. 

I look to the direct comparisons within other factions. The obvious ones being the Beckoner and Rotten Belle.

In the case of the Belle, the goal is to lure them close and pounce on them. They can take a punch and are meant to gang up thanks to Scarlet Temptation. I clearly see the intention. Lure it in, gain fast, gang up and beat the hell out of it. 

Looking at the Beckoner. They're not really about killing. I see them more as a means to draw the opponent into their lines. Lynch has a lot of disruptive auras and their crew is relatively slow on the whole. The beckoner herself can lock down models as they are on negative flips versus brilliant tokens and can further put out distracted. So again, I clearly see their purpose here. Draw them in, shut them down, stack up brilliance. 

In the showgirls case, they seem to lack the defensive capabilities of these other models. So luring something closer is often detrimental to their own survivability. Again what is the end goal here? To lock down a model? To stack up distracted? To accomplish schemes? It doesn't seem obvious. It also doesn't really help that Colette (both versions) has insane mobility. Why Lure when you have Presto Chango or Magical Flourish. Carlos and Cassandra can easily do the scheming equivalent of two showgirls.

 

Anyway so I had a think as to what I'd change to make them useful. Let's start with what I do like about them. Don't Mind Me and Celebrity are easily their best abilities. Unresisted Distracted likely means your trading AP, hopefully with a significantly scarier threat to shut them down. Lure is also good, but only if they have a reason for it and currently they don't.

What I'd love to see is to give them a role. Probably lean into celebrity and expand upon it to make these models into shutdown/manipulation pieces first and schemers as a backup. The idea being that they want to lure you in, shut you down and then maneuver you into suboptimal positions, and score points. I also feel like the crew on the whole has a very subtle affinity for scheme markers but it's not strong enough to really lean into. I'd like to see showgirls leverage that a bit more.

So the big issue for them is Focus. Manipulative just encourages the opponent to focus, gaining a positive to damage, and obliterating their measly 5wds/Df5. I think they need an ability to prevent the opponent from gaining focus. Something like 

Attention Stealer: Opponents engaged with this model cannot reduce their focused condition and are unable to take the concentrate general action  

The next thing is Seduction. While I don't think it's a bad ability, I do think its a bit redundant seeing how they have celebrity. Why would I take a chance on a Duel when I can simply do an interact action for an unresisted distracted. Yes you do remove focus, but celebrity would burn that off anyway. Honestly it could just be converted into a trigger on their lure or melee attack instead and free up the space. So instead of seduction, I'd give them 

Lead the Way: 2" Stat4 Df 11 - Push target 4" and push 4" towards them. 

This would be useful for manoeuvring friendly/enemy models for scheme purposes. Shutting down a model and taking them for a ride. Hopefully enabling you to accomplish schemes. 

Lastly I'd give them a free action. Just as a way to better leverage celebrity, while also having some scheme potential AND leveraging scheme markers that the crew kinda sorta does. 

Disappearing act: 3" Stat5 TN11 - Remove target friendly scheme marker. This model may take an interact action. 

The idea being that you can leverage scheme markers to basically interact as a free action. This helps them so that they can move and scheme, while also giving them another vector for celebrity. 

 

One other thing I had been toying around with would be to give their Poisoned Hairpin a positive attack versus distracted models. Mainly for disengaging strikes. Again trying to double down on the idea of locking up enemy models. 

 

Anyway this was fun trying to come up with ways to give showgirls more of an identity. What other thoughts do other people have? Or do you think the showgirls are fine as is? 

[clockworkspide]

I think something like Sleight of Hand works better as the name for the bonus action;  Disappearing Act feels like it would be more fitting for some kind of Bury.

[Plaag]

they just need bonus action like chain gang and some other def tech

[Jinn]

Just had an idea, give them a demise that gives Distracted +2-4 to their killer. Demise (Dramatic Death +x) or something.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Demise: The Show Must Go On- bury the showgirl and heal her. Unbury by killing a dove.

Would probably be too strong xD

[Morgan Vening]

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Demise: The Show Must Go On- bury the showgirl and heal her. Unbury by killing a dove.

Would probably be too strong xD

Could always include a significant cost. Discard a SS. Discard a card of value X. Discard a card of suit X.

Problem is, it's just ignoring the fact that they don't do enough, especially in the current pools.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Performers have similar issues to belles, though belles are a little less problematic now that they can be summoned.

Problem being lure is an order of magnitude less powerful than it was in 2e due to the underlaying rule changes, and they were balanced as if lure and manipulative were as strong as they were last edition. They’d be more playable if they had a crew support bonus action that was always useful and activation order agnostic.

chain gang, a 10” range distract, a short range aura to turn an enemy scheme marker in range as friendly until end of the turn to help prevent scoring. Something like that would help them a bit I feel.

[Jordon]

5 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

chain gang, a 10” range distract, a short range aura to turn an enemy scheme marker in range as friendly until end of the turn to help prevent scoring. Something like that would help them a bit I feel.

Sort of feel like that's stepping on the saboteur's toes a bit. 

Which is sort of another issue. The saboteur feels like a better performer in most cases and I don't hear many people singing their praises either. They want to do the whole ranged scheme denial which is why I wish the performers would go in a slightly different direction. More distracted interactions.

[Jinn]

What role can they be changed to fill that Colette actually needs?

Beyond Magical Training carrier, because even if Showgirls were buffed a lot if I'm playing at all competitively I feel like I have to hire a Silent One to heal the Coryphee Duet. The problem there being that the keyword's healer (Mannequin) can't heal. Despite that, it'd feel a bit weird to me if they gave Showgirls solid healing at ranged when the Mannequins are right there.

As for Showgirls current identity, I think Colette doesn't really need lures, and distracted is not really that important to her game plan. What could be good for them is an ability that allows their lure to target a marker, maybe with a way to remove it. Colette 2 would really appreciate a way to get her decoys (the markers, not the doves) up the board and any Arcanist would love some actual marker manipulation/removal.

[DuBlanck]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:43 PM, Jordon said:

One other thing I had been toying around with would be to give their Poisoned Hairpin a positive attack versus distracted models. Mainly for disengaging strikes. Again trying to double down on the idea of locking up enemy models. 

I like this, and/or bumping their Poison output, so that the lockdown is not simply "we stand on your toes being Manipulative".

On 4/20/2022 at 4:43 PM, Jordon said:

Disappearing act: 3" Stat5 TN11 - Remove target friendly scheme marker. This model may take an interact action. 

Attention Stealer, the above Distracted output, and Lead The Way gives them a role in keeping the whole crew dancing around, rather than sporadic pushes and moves here and there with movement tricks focusing on within activations.

[Plaag]

i really dont like that harata have no place in colette-whole faction have no dmg against wp but wogel

it is very stupid

[Jordon]

7 hours ago, Plaag said:

i really dont like that harata have no place in colette-whole faction have no dmg against wp but wogel

it is very stupid

I think in theory his aura to prevent positives from enemy models was a way to get around the issue of getting around manipulative by simply focus nuking the the showgirls. In practice it doesn't really work. Its too much cost investment, activation order nightmare, and has half your crew clumped up in one place. 

If showgirls did more with poison or distracted I think he'd have more of a purpose with Colette. Largely what he brings, Colette doesn't really need. 

[Vangerdahast]

Agree that Harata is a strange Performer. He doesn't  have any movement trick and is the only one Living Performer that doesn't  have Don't  Mind  Me (and fluffwise, I could have missed somerhing but he doesn't have in reason to be a Performer).

But he has a role. First, he is the only min3 damage attack in the keyword.

Second, his Haka Peruperu can be effective.

I have already Presto-Changoed an already activated Peacekeeper near unactivated Harata and Duet. Harata used Peruperu and attacked the Peacekeeper. Next activation, the Duet attacked 4 times the Peacekeeper. With Attack 7 versus Def 4, the ping damage was super effective. At the end of the turn, the Peacekeeper had 2 Health left.

I cheated initiative next turn. Activated the Duet, two more attacks with 1 damage each and the Peacekeeper was dead without any retaliation from it.

So Peruperu and the Duet can be a good combo, especially versus armored models who generally have low Def.

 

[Azahul]

There is also the Dorian/Harata combo forcing Boring Conversation flips at a negative, though again that's one of those things that tends to be better in theory than practice. 

[Plaag]

9 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

Agree that Harata is a strange Performer. He doesn't  have any movement trick and is the only one Living Performer that doesn't  have Don't  Mind  Me (and fluffwise, I could have missed somerhing but he doesn't have in reason to be a Performer).

But he has a role. First, he is the only min3 damage attack in the keyword.

Second, his Haka Peruperu can be effective.

I have already Presto-Changoed an already activated Peacekeeper near unactivated Harata and Duet. Harata used Peruperu and attacked the Peacekeeper. Next activation, the Duet attacked 4 times the Peacekeeper. With Attack 7 versus Def 4, the ping damage was super effective. At the end of the turn, the Peacekeeper had 2 Health left.

I cheated initiative next turn. Activated the Duet, two more attacks with 1 damage each and the Peacekeeper was dead without any retaliation from it.

So Peruperu and the Duet can be a good combo, especially versus armored models who generally have low Def.

 

just take mecharachnid with ssc-its more effective and tanky model

im just talking abt wp dmg in whole arcanists

in explorers maxine hits with great dmg in harata aura, but in performers he have no place at all

[Jordon]

I find it so odd that Performers are the only keyword that doesn't synergies with itself. Literally every other keyword in our faction has a reason to stay in theme. 

December creates and utilizes slow and ice pillars

Wilfire creates and utilizes burning/pyres

Elemental and Academic is entirely about synergy via mantra's

Augmented and Foundry create and utilize scrap

M&SU have unionized, grit, and a bunch of models who use that keyword (Amina Fitz Toni)

Chimera/Beast is a requirement for mutations and several models again utilize the keyword. 

 

Performer has a theme. Don't mind me and Distracted. However no one really does anything with it. Seems like for the most part everyone just does their own thing and no one really cares about each other. I could run Colette with Showgirls or Molemen and it really wouldn't make much of a difference. Everyone doles out distracted but there is barely any actual interaction with it. Scheme markers are also a very lightly used mechanic within the crew but it doesn't factor in enough to really lean into in any way. 

This is another reason as to why showgirls are such a tough sell for the crew, because they are completely optional and nothing encourages me into hiring within theme. I may as well take the strongest options available within the faction. 

[DuBlanck]

2 hours ago, Jordon said:

Seems like for the most part everyone just does their own thing and no one really cares about each other.

This is adjacent to what I said above about wanting something like Lead The Way to keep the whole crew dancing around - at the moment they play less like a troupe of dancers than they do smugglers, which would be fine were it not for that being Ivan's schtick (and he actually has crew interactions).

[Maniacal_cackle]

What's interesting is every distracted crew in the game seemed to suffer from the 'synergies don't work' issue at launch xD

[Jordon]

8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What's interesting is every distracted crew in the game seemed to suffer from the 'synergies don't work' issue at launch xD

What makes this particular case a bit more awkward than say Youko is that Performers are not actually under powered. Most of the keyword is actually quite viable. Carlos, Cassandra, Duet and Colette herself are all exceptional models. So asking for a rewrite of the entire keyword is probably not smart, nor likely to happen. 

The showgirls are in all likelihood a good candidate to see some kind of change as they are considered under powered, while also un synergistic.

I'm just not sure if you can change a single cheap minion and somehow make the entire keyword synergize. Colette will still, most likely, not really care who she's hiring.  

[Fetid Strumpet]

The issue in my opinion was that during the changeover the developers and play testers were still caught in M2E mindset, and they overvalued both Lure (one of the more powerful abilities in 2e, but in 3e it’s no where close to as valuable), Manipulative, and distracted. 
 

The change to how Focus works, lasting across the turn limit, and 1 AP charges really changed the value of their mechanics.