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How to deal with Ivan, Double Agent?


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I mean, his Refraction Matrix seems downright bonkers.

You might be double focused, then charge which drops you one, you get in one decent attack, and after that you’re proper eff’ed.

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Sure there 2” reach models, but Ivan can just close the gap and then that advantage is soon gone - and moving out puts another Distracted on the model, ruining any chance of a hit.

Then you can shoot the bugger, but he’s the King of Concealment, so…

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So how do people take out your Ivan, Double Agent?

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11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Is there any reason you can't just ignore him and deal with the rest of his team?  It is a one inch bubble after all.

Also punching through distracted can still land hits. It isn't a very reliable defense.

No, I’m asking for advice on how to deal with him, not avoiding him 😏

I can assure you that Distracted is undoubtedly the most reliable defense in the game, stripping you of both the chance to cheat and in turn the use of focus to cheat damage. My Nightmare crew can completely neuter opposing beaters by handing out Distracted before taking them down. Likewise my Performers rely on it to allow them to do whatever they please. It is incredibly efficient in draining your opponents actions - and relying on a lucky joker or a better flip is more gambling than gaming 😉

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34 minutes ago, Regelridderen said:

No, I’m asking for advice on how to deal with him, not avoiding him 😏

I can assure you that Distracted is undoubtedly the most reliable defense in the game, stripping you of both the chance to cheat and in turn the use of focus to cheat damage. My Nightmare crew can completely neuter opposing beaters by handing out Distracted before taking them down. Likewise my Performers rely on it to allow them to do whatever they please. It is incredibly efficient in draining your opponents actions - and relying on a lucky joker or a better flip is more gambling than gaming 😉

Well, if you really want to attack him in melee,  you can use 2" engage, numbskull, honorable, hazard ignore via incorporeal or similar?

You can also use built in positive models like rogue Necromancy,  or stone through it with stone users. Mah Tuckett will gladly stone to throw him into a trap.

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A few points - 

Double agent has 1 defensive ability - the refraction matrix. There is no other defensive ability at all on him. 

In general, Area damage is bad for him, blasts, shockwaves, auras etc. Every faction can do something on this way against him. 

Distracted is good at stopping concentrated attacks, but if you make enough attacks then some will hit. 

As said 2" engagement will let you attack from outside the aura, although you are not likely to be able to keep him at that point. 

Shooting can work, I think Concealing shadow markers are less likely to occur in Double agent rather than normal. 

 

 

 

 

If you have to try and kill him there are several different options in each faction. (And I think its a bad idea to make a plan to try and kill him if you don't bring the resources to do so, making a plan to avoid him is sometimes easier).

Guild- Lady Justice- 2" melee and immunity to the distracted condition. Peacekeeper -2" engagement, easy access to a free push to keep out the aura, high damage profile on 3 attacks, so even if you start in the distracted aura, you are likely to be able to push out, have 1 bad attack and then 2 good attacks. (there are several other 2" ml, from Executioners, Guardian, Reichart). Guns- Guild has lots of guns. Unless Ivan is standing inside a shadow marker, then its likely to be able to get a line on him. Nino ignores Concealing, as can Basse, pathfinders, lone marshal

 Arcanists - Bit trickier - they don't have as much ignore concelament, or as many guns. Things like Presto change can be used to move a distracted model out of his aura and get rid of the distracted (well mainly). 

Ressers - Archie, Urami use adversary a lot which counters the :-flip

Neverborn - Black blood can hurt with no duels, and young have a natural:+flip

Outcast - Bandits have a lot of :+flip:ranged attacks, obliteration get similar from making a model fast

TT - Leverage will copunter distracted/copncealed, fermented river loves distracted, Samurai shoot with a :+flip, Oni with Flicker, Yamaziko

Bayou -Rage machine, several long carbines, drunken kung fu, lots of shockwaves, pigapult

Explorers - Adversay Apex, Ungentlemanly affairs

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  • 2 weeks later...

And..

Kill Mordrake.

A lot.

^^ Of course, maybe the Ivan player will chose to not use the demise but... he'll lose a lot of health before. Friday Mordrake was killed 4 times before Ivan was killed. ^^ (with Lady J) 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've tinkered with Ivan2 a bit recently, and can confirm tech like Numbskull or Incorporeal makes him feel pretty silly. 

Even outside of that though, he doesn't have a melee attack, so your opponent can always just...  walk away... from his mighty 1" aura. If it's ever not worth it to the opponent to actually attack him, they can ignore him completely. 

If the Ivan2 player really wants him to survive and plays conservatively, such as when Assassinate is in the pool, there's very little in the game that will put him down efficiently. Between 6/6/6 stats, 12 wounds, copious Concealing, cross-table teleporting, distracting enemies, and healing him from Gibby, he might just be Explorers most durable master. As a player intending to kill Ivan2... You need to bring the right tech as others in this thread have outlined and commit to chewing through his cards and Soulstones early and often. 

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1 hour ago, hydranixx said:

I've tinkered with Ivan2 a bit recently, and can confirm tech like Numbskull or Incorporeal makes him feel pretty silly. 

Even outside of that though, he doesn't have a melee attack, so your opponent can always just...  walk away... from his mighty 1" aura. If it's ever not worth it to the opponent to actually attack him, they can ignore him completely. 

If the Ivan2 player really wants him to survive and plays conservatively, such as when Assassinate is in the pool, there's very little in the game that will put him down efficiently. Between 6/6/6 stats, 12 wounds, copious Concealing, cross-table teleporting, distracting enemies, and healing him from Gibby, he might just be Explorers most durable master. As a player intending to kill Ivan2... You need to bring the right tech as others in this thread have outlined and commit to chewing through his cards and Soulstones early and often. 

I also like putting Flush With Cash on him, so it becomes a real gamble to even try to take him down in melee. And he can sit where he wants raking in stones as his models die. Don't know if it is fully worth it, but makes him feel very safe!

I have found that his crew somewhat lacks teeth without min 3 Ivan summoning Brocken on people, as they just aren't worth the hire. I'm thinking about hiring Mikhail into the crew as a min 3 beater that Daeva can mimic to get some more threats.

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5 hours ago, Jinn said:

I have found that his crew somewhat lacks teeth without min 3 Ivan summoning Brocken on people, as they just aren't worth the hire. I'm thinking about hiring Mikhail into the crew as a min 3 beater that Daeva can mimic to get some more threats.

Interesting idea. I might consider picking Harata over Mikhail to Mimic. His Distraction and his Debilitating Poison auras seem very strong in this keyword, he can hand out Distracted at range, targeting Mv, which synergises nicely with the Staggered Ivan is trying to provide, and he has a 2" melee attack. 

He is very flimsy in the keyword though. 

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