Arcanist Feb 2022 Errata

[dancater]

So,

There is already a separate forum post for the biggest model re-vamp we got, Raspy-1 has some super interesting changes and its worth digging into that post to explore and comment. Personally very pleased.

Concerning Masters there is what I consider, if I interpret it correctly, a needed nerf for Kaeris Reborn - ° Pg 29 – Burning – Add the following Text to Burning “(to a maximum of 5 damage).” So that caps Scorching Radiance unless I'm very wrong, which I think is necessary.

So non-Masters we didn't actually see much,

First Molemen (yay!), they had long been only worth literal burial, but are they better now? First I'm disappointed that they did not get any real Chimera synergy in moving or interacting directly with Mutation upgrades 😪. Second why does Network of Tunnels not say friendly Scheme Marker AND Severe Tunnel Markers. But otherwise more Wounds, more potential movement shenanigans and some ranged durability in any difficult terrain, for 4SS I will look hard at them in Chimera, at least one, maybe two. OOK I don't think 5SS displaces anything available that I can see.

Neil Henry (OK, cool). Nail Down could be useful, with Steel Driver he certainly could hit hard enough on a trigger to cycle Scrap Markers. Bulldoze is huge in the heavy Marker game which the new Titles makes hugely important. Df increase is always useful. 

[profdikweed]

I don't think molemen change much. They are only useful if your opponent puts out terrain markers. You have the same issue as before where they have to set up their own network. Unsure if making tunnels for marcus's beasts is useful as you already have access to plenty of movement for them already. When they are competing with the eagle for usefulness I think its still a no brainer which one to bring. Agree on the network of tunnel wording, unsure why you cant unbury next to a literal marker representing a tunnel.

I think Neil was changed so you don't have a possible 4AP focus 2 dickhead with Mei Feng2 in one turn. Its still possible but you need to give him fast then 2 focus in another turn. Don't know why we got another marker removal action in a crew that has access to blown apart. Should have been somewhere else. I like the steel driver change.

kaeris2 change was needed. I'm fine with it because it also affects poison damage cap. good change overall.

[dancater]

20 minutes ago, profdikweed said:

I don't think molemen change much. They are only useful if your opponent puts out terrain markers. You have the same issue as before where they have to set up their own network. Unsure if making tunnels for marcus's beasts is useful as you already have access to plenty of movement for them already. When they are competing with the eagle for usefulness I think its still a no brainer which one to bring. Agree on the network of tunnel wording, unsure why you cant unbury next to a literal marker representing a tunnel.

Largely agree, they have gained a small amount of increased durability, notably +1Wd, but doubt this changes much. Again not being able to synergise with Mutations hurts them in keyword really badly, in the durability stakes as well.

They still do awful damage. There movement shenanigans may be worth taking them, but honestly they look fiddly and difficult to set up well outside of specific tables. 

At best they seem to me to have gone from unviable regardless to a highly limited tech pick largely based on table terrain or perhaps a specific opponent that heavily utilises severe terrain themselves. Overall, meh.

 

As for Neil Henry, he is a model I've never taken, in a crew I rarely played. So really need deeper insights into Foundry to measure him up. As a regular OOK choice, at 8+1 tax SS I really can't see taking him often in my Colette and Raspy crews, although as stated marker destruction is increasingly important, is it 9SS important with what else Neil brings? I don't see it, but then I have yet to see one of the really Marker heavy masters opposite me.

[profdikweed]

6 minutes ago, dancater said:

largely based on table terrain

 It specifies terrain markers, not terrain. So you cant tunnel to just normal terrain.

[eddy]

7 minutes ago, profdikweed said:

 It specifies terrain markers, not terrain. So you cant tunnel to just normal terrain.

Hmm does strategy markers count as terrrain markers if they have terrain trait? If so that makes tunneling much better

[profdikweed]

7 minutes ago, eddy said:

Hmm does strategy markers count as terrrain markers if they have terrain trait? If so that makes tunneling much better

Pretty sure you cant target strategy markers outside some very specific actions, interact being one of them.

EDIT: you cannot target them as per paragraph 2 of the section "Strategy Markers" on pg 28 of the rulebook.

Edited February 17, 2022 by profdikweed
added clarity on rule

[profdikweed]

The other change we need to be aware of is the slam action meaning that Hoffman2 Pylons can be moved by the opponent.

No idea how a malifaux rat is suplexing a massive pylon, but here we are.

[dancater]

53 minutes ago, profdikweed said:

It specifies terrain markers, not terrain. So you cant tunnel to just normal terrain.

No, But in a table loaded with severe terrain the Moleman is not impacted and the tunnels present an option to move other models around at least a little between Terrain/friendly Scheme Markers so marginally increasing manoeuvrability. Not huge but I could see it being useful, more so where an opposing crew does put out some form of terrain markers as well.   

[Zebo]

3 hours ago, profdikweed said:

No idea how a malifaux rat is suplexing a massive pylon, but here we are.

I've seen a small mouse make a 200+lb man make a successful Leap action in real life, so I'm very confident in the capabilities of a medium-dog sized Malifaux Rat. 

[dancater]

37 minutes ago, Zebo said:

No idea how a malifaux rat is suplexing a massive pylon, but here we are.

The same way that same Rat could beat out a raging conflagration on a model with the Burning condition I guess. In the interest of smooth play its better not to start making corner case this or that model rules.

But on point profdikweed, totally missed this: ° Pg 22 – Add the following General Action – Slam: Target an Impassable Marker or any one Destructible Terrain piece within 1". If the target is Destructible remove it from play, otherwise Place it within 1" of this model.”

Pretty important all around implications following Titles releases, I think necessary. Agreed it has the largest implications for Hoff-2. 

[theamazingmrg]

5 minutes ago, dancater said:

The same way that same Rat could beat out a raging conflagration on a model with the Burning condition I guess. In the interest of smooth play its better not to start making corner case this or that model rules.

But on point profdikweed, totally missed this: ° Pg 22 – Add the following General Action – Slam: Target an Impassable Marker or any one Destructible Terrain piece within 1". If the target is Destructible remove it from play, otherwise Place it within 1" of this model.”

Pretty important all around implications following Titles releases, I think necessary. Agreed it has the largest implications for Hoff-2. 

Sure, it has implications for Hoff 2 but most of the time isn't really going to do anything.  It stops two potential NPE things - blocking off important parts of the board, and reduces Irreducible damage.  Far better this solution than something like giving Pylons Destructible which would have far-reaching impacts for Hoff 2. 

 

Now its a serious choice for the opponent: do I want to spend an AP moving this Pylon?  That AP could be doing something that scores points.  I think its a reasonable change, myself.

[Jordon]

Largely agree with others. I feel like the Moleman change missed the mark a bit. Mainly with the lack of mutation synergy. Locking upgrades on them is just bad for Marcus, so you'll just end up not mutating them. Which at that point, why are you even bringing them? Now that Marcus has the eagles, I still don't see Moleman as a viable pick outside of very specific matchups. Oh well there's always next year! 

As for Raspy, she's got a total revamp and it looks much improved. It also does appear to help out some of the struggling December models as well. Acolytes now can shoot without worrying about pillar cover. Tools of the job is also made better with all the card draw. Hoarcats will like Decembers passage. Ice Dancers moving pillars seems to be more viable now. Is it enough to warrant hiring these models? Not sure yet.

Neil looks fine. Loosing reckless hurts, especially with the Rock Hoppers Salvage Site allowing him to ignore the damage. However, most of his abilities seem less niche now so overall it's probably fine. 

Pushing markers and capping poison/burning is just good for the game so no complaints there. 

 

[Jordon]

Oh and Colette2 received some clarification. Not sure how people were playing her before, but hopefully it at least removes confusion. 

[Litano]

As someone who more or less exclusively plays Foundry, I have to say that I like the changes to Neil for the most part. Losing Reckless definitely hurts, but removing it allowed Wyrd to allocate that power elsewhere so that Henry can be more than a one-dimensional beater. Below are some thoughts:

-Going from DF 5 to 6 is just a straight buff. Not much to say here.

-Nail Down is just a better version of Sabotage, since you lose the Construct requirement and gain the ability to drop Scheme Markers if you so choose. It also (partially) mitigates new!Neil's action economy woes with a splash of hit and run potential, since it's now very likely that Neil can charge into a weak enemy, kill them with Steel Driver, and Ride the Rails out of danger to reposition elsewhere on the table. Getting Neil into the proper threat range for this can be tricky with his move 5, but abilities like Mei1's Freight Train, Mechanical Rider's Ride with Me, or even Mei2's Modified Welder (in a pinch) can all make this play pattern more viable.

-Going from Rail Driver to Steel Driver was all upside. The italicized bonus from Scrap is much better than Rail Driver's, since removing Scrap Markers never feels good and since paying for that cost on Rail Driver ALSO competed with the conditions on the Blinded by Iron trigger, which the new Steel Driver retains. Steel Driver loses the Armor Piercing trigger on Masks, but instead gains the quality of ignoring armor as an across-the-aboard benefit, so this (again) only makes the action better. The bottom line is that you're going to be able to get a +1 on all your final duel totals while fighting near Scrap unless you use Blinded by Iron, all your swings will bypass armor, and any kills you generate in the process give you the ability to continue swinging with bonus or get the hell out of dodge (as discussed above).

-Bulldoze is probably just better than Whirling Hammer? I'd need to think about this more, but it feels like an overall upgrade to me. An area of effect that covers 5" of unimpeded move vs. 3" aura around a 30 mm base is probably a wash that comes down to case-by-case preference, but the TN target for the action has been bumped from 12 to 13 and the action now does 2 damage and staggered instead of injured 2. I'm really intrigued by the ability to remove markers and replace them with scrap that we see on this ability, since marker removal is always powerful. We already have a bit of this in-keyword with the Mechanized Porkchop, but the fact that the Pound to Dust trigger on Tusks MUST be taken and is an aura instead of a push that can be carefully targeted definitely makes Porkchop's marker removal a bit worse in this regard.

-Get to Work is a great ability, and definitely the one I'm most excited to try out on the table out of all these changes. For context, one of the things I quickly realized as I started playing Foundry is that the crew ends up Riding the Rails less than you might expect. Sure, it's definitely a powerful ability that lets you duck out of combat without disengaging, move more than twice your move in a single turn, zip from point to point through terrain that would slow other movement or block it altogether, etc. But even with all these benefits, Walk is still an inefficient action to take in many circumstances. One of the reasons why Foundry players end up using Ride the Rails less than they might expect is that you need to start your walk within 1" of scrap for the ability to go off. Even if you're just half an inch outside of this range, you need to expend 2 walks to actually Ride: one to get in range of the marker, and one to use the replacement ability. As such, little pushes and repositions are great in Foundry, since they let you take advantage of your crew's signature ability more frequently. Get to Work definitely qualifies, pushing Friendly models towards a piece of scrap from 2" away and healing them by 1 in the process. One important thing to note is that this push can affect Henry himself, letting you essentially Ride the Rails from 2" away with an action and a bonus instead of 2 actions. You can also use the ability to pull opposing models out of cover or bubble effects with this ability, which synergizes well with the movement debuff from Bulldoze. Finally, this ability pairs perfectly with Spark LeBlanc's Scrapyard Mines aura to turn the Scrap that you drag enemies towards into Pit Traps with the Severe and Hazardous (Damage 1 and Injured +1) qualities. Definitely revisit your terrain rules if you plan to exploit this synergy, since it might not be as good as you'd initially hope, but this is still a great combo worth considering while building a crew.

Overall, I think these changes turn Henry into a much more interesting model with a definite niche besides "run in and hit face." I'd love to hear how other people plan to use him!

[Plaag]

bad errarta mostly-they buffed many models that dont need it like moleman, queller and schill minion, while models that really need a buff, f.e. saboteur, bishop, yasunori etc., stayed the same

and they didnt nerf tara2, kirai 2, lj2, yannik with schill and other op things

poison/burn dmg is fine, it needed to be done, game have too many dmg with no resist

main arc buff is cassandra now

rasputina becomes little better, will see how many she will play

nail was good model with no changes, dont know why they make it

moleman is a buff, that marcus crew totally dont need

 

[Trimasel]

17 hours ago, Plaag said:

buff, f.e. saboteur, bishop, yasunori etc., stayed the same

I've surprised that you not mentioned: showgirls, Ice dancers, ice gamins, hoarcats. 

[Zebo]

17 hours ago, Plaag said:

bad errarta mostly-they buffed many models that dont need it like moleman, queller and schill minion, while models that really need a buff, f.e. saboteur, bishop, yasunori etc., stayed the same

Not sure if joking. 

Moleman, Queller and Drachen needed buff, because they were really bad. Quite worse than Bishop or Yasunori indeed. 

 

Maybe Barbaros didn't need the buff, and Desperate Mercenary or Outcast Upgrades (specially Soldier for Hire, although still think the only useful upgrade there is Servant of Dark Powers) were in deeper need of some love. I can only speak about Outcast because is the faction I know the most, but I'm tired of facing Marcus and, while I agree on his crew not needing any buff, Moleman were pretty bad. Also Cerberus should have been nerfed. 

[TeddyBear]

I agree with others. moleman didn't see game, so their buff might as well be fine. but undoubtedly chimeras did not need other optimal pieces. (as i already claimed, they could have nerfed cerberus or blessed, or even just cerberus: one suggestion i made was to remove "deadly parsuit" from models with built-in leap)

however, the strong feeling I had is that wyrd didn't have too much time to make all changes, also based on what they wrote in the release. I had the impression that these choices were made in a hurry or they are incomplete in any case.

[muraki]

2 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

however, the strong feeling I had is that wyrd didn't have too much time to make all changes, also based on what they wrote in the release. I had the impression that these choices were made in a hurry or they are incomplete in any case.

I didnt read the release as 'we didn't do as much because we were rushed' but more 'we can't/won't touch everything at once' it's always been their statement on erratas and I think they just wanted to get out ahead of the 'its crap, why can't you just change a ton of models and do away with cards?'

Looking at the numbers there were 32ish cards in 2021 and 31ish this year, but wyrd has mentioned before it's harder to errata minions than enforcers/upgrades as changing 1 moleman is 3 cards due to rare limits, so this errata no doubt deals with more cards / cost for wyrd than others as there's a ton of minions in this version... So think there was still a lot of planning/work this time and it is a pretty great set of changes.

[TeddyBear]

@murakiit could be as you say. actually I hadn't thought about the "number of cards" speech and it might make sense. but not even GG were changed (not that this is a big problem) but it was one of the reasons why I thought maybe they had more urgent commitments.

[Mycellanious]

Personally, I think the Neil Henry changes were a bit of a nerf. He had an in-Keyword niche as an independent model, since he was one of the few that could act independent of Scrap Markers if he needed to, and he was great at that niche

Now, he has a different niche, but he's not nearly as good at that niche as he used to be, and he has become confused. He's a clunky, frontline, grind unit, but he still dies really easily so he still cant survive on the frontlines. Bulldoze is a great ability, no question, but this model is now *slow* so I don't know if he will ever be able to use it effectively. Meanwhile, a Walk-Bulldoze just ends your activation, it doesn't synergize with either Flurry or Nail Down. His new bonus action is swell, but I don't see it being particularly impactful. A 2" push is ok, but if the enemy has moved your model you are going to be more than 2" away from a scrap marker, and if you moved your model out of range, then you just mispositioned them and wouldn't need to rely on the bonus if you had positioned better. In addition to this, it is a TN SEVEN. This ability will hardly ever go off in Foundry, because they are already overloaded with Discards and Target Numbers while having literally 0 access to card draw. Am I going to save my 7 for Mei's Impromptu Invention, or a 2" Push? Am I going to spend a 10 on this 2" push? Hell naw. Plus, Bulldoze requires a 6, meaning this already card hungry model now wants *even more* cards. 

This isn't a buff to Neil Henry, this is just a whole new model. If he had gotten a new sculpt and a name, this model could have happily coexisted in the same keyword as Neil Henry. 

I can't figure out when you would want to hire this model? "When the enemy drops Markers" is the obvious answer, though I am not convinced he'd be useful even then. What I mean is in what crew would you consider hiring this model? I don't want to hire him in Mei 1 because he doesnt get support, doesn't provide support, and takes away precious cards from Mei. And if I am choosing to save an 8 for Neil or an 8 for Freight Train, it is no contest who gets the card. I don't want to hire him in Mei 2, because she can only give 1 thing Fast a turn. Neil doesn't get very much use out of Fast, since Bulldoze is Once per Turn. He'd be using Fast to Walk or Attack. Why would I ever give him Fast instead of the Golem (which is a Min 3 Beater) or Kang (which is a Min 4 beater)?

Before I thought Neil was a solid take into both Titles. In Mei 1, he acted like a mini-Mei which provided a second threat and could go buddy cop with her (since they both could have Railwalked twice, then gotten 2 attacks). In Mei 2, the free Shielded meant he could use Reckless without burning himself down, which was huge. Now? I don't see a place for him with either Title, which makes me sad because he was one of my favorite models. I think Neil need to lose Get to Work, and gain Reckless back. I think just changing Whirling Hammer for Bulldoze would have been enough to make him a great model with a solid niche of Walk-Bulldoze-Attack-Attack. Right now, my first impression is that changing Reckless for Get to Work is a significant nerf to the model that I don't personally feel was warranted.

[Mycellanious]

Ooh, I've had a thought. If the concern is that Reckless would allow Neil to have too many attacks, give him Nimble instead. It would allow him to maintain his Hit-and-Run playstyle, retain his independence, allow him to set up a proper Bulldoze, while also limiting the amount of attacks he can get. 

[Plaag]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:33 AM, Trimasel said:

I've surprised that you not mentioned: showgirls, Ice dancers, ice gamins, hoarcats. 

i lost hope that wyrd will buff correct models

[Plaag]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:44 AM, Zebo said:

Not sure if joking. 

Moleman, Queller and Drachen needed buff, because they were really bad. Quite worse than Bishop or Yasunori indeed. 

 

Maybe Barbaros didn't need the buff, and Desperate Mercenary or Outcast Upgrades (specially Soldier for Hire, although still think the only useful upgrade there is Servant of Dark Powers) were in deeper need of some love. I can only speak about Outcast because is the faction I know the most, but I'm tired of facing Marcus and, while I agree on his crew not needing any buff, Moleman were pretty bad. Also Cerberus should have been nerfed. 

moleman is in keyword where almost all models are top, the same for trooper, also they were not bad-just average model in top keywords

queller was good in sonnia-just high competition between models in/out keyword to hire him

he was also good in title

[Plaag]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:22 PM, Mycellanious said:

Personally, I think the Neil Henry changes were a bit of a nerf. He had an in-Keyword niche as an independent model, since he was one of the few that could act independent of Scrap Markers if he needed to, and he was great at that niche

Now, he has a different niche, but he's not nearly as good at that niche as he used to be, and he has become confused. He's a clunky, frontline, grind unit, but he still dies really easily so he still cant survive on the frontlines. Bulldoze is a great ability, no question, but this model is now *slow* so I don't know if he will ever be able to use it effectively. Meanwhile, a Walk-Bulldoze just ends your activation, it doesn't synergize with either Flurry or Nail Down. His new bonus action is swell, but I don't see it being particularly impactful. A 2" push is ok, but if the enemy has moved your model you are going to be more than 2" away from a scrap marker, and if you moved your model out of range, then you just mispositioned them and wouldn't need to rely on the bonus if you had positioned better. In addition to this, it is a TN SEVEN. This ability will hardly ever go off in Foundry, because they are already overloaded with Discards and Target Numbers while having literally 0 access to card draw. Am I going to save my 7 for Mei's Impromptu Invention, or a 2" Push? Am I going to spend a 10 on this 2" push? Hell naw. Plus, Bulldoze requires a 6, meaning this already card hungry model now wants *even more* cards. 

This isn't a buff to Neil Henry, this is just a whole new model. If he had gotten a new sculpt and a name, this model could have happily coexisted in the same keyword as Neil Henry. 

I can't figure out when you would want to hire this model? "When the enemy drops Markers" is the obvious answer, though I am not convinced he'd be useful even then. What I mean is in what crew would you consider hiring this model? I don't want to hire him in Mei 1 because he doesnt get support, doesn't provide support, and takes away precious cards from Mei. And if I am choosing to save an 8 for Neil or an 8 for Freight Train, it is no contest who gets the card. I don't want to hire him in Mei 2, because she can only give 1 thing Fast a turn. Neil doesn't get very much use out of Fast, since Bulldoze is Once per Turn. He'd be using Fast to Walk or Attack. Why would I ever give him Fast instead of the Golem (which is a Min 3 Beater) or Kang (which is a Min 4 beater)?

Before I thought Neil was a solid take into both Titles. In Mei 1, he acted like a mini-Mei which provided a second threat and could go buddy cop with her (since they both could have Railwalked twice, then gotten 2 attacks). In Mei 2, the free Shielded meant he could use Reckless without burning himself down, which was huge. Now? I don't see a place for him with either Title, which makes me sad because he was one of my favorite models. I think Neil need to lose Get to Work, and gain Reckless back. I think just changing Whirling Hammer for Bulldoze would have been enough to make him a great model with a solid niche of Walk-Bulldoze-Attack-Attack. Right now, my first impression is that changing Reckless for Get to Work is a significant nerf to the model that I don't personally feel was warranted.

agree