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Errata 2022 - Bayou


50 SS Enforcer

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Errata 2022 is fast approaching, what do you expect to be touched in this…..wait what? it’s a faction now, green skins ain’t no faction! 
What do you want touched that you suspect will not be? 

What do you think will be bad touched? 
 
Y’all are probably too drunk to know what’s going on, carry on. 😜

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Since the previous errata really didn't do much to address the problems with Bayou, my wishlist is basically the same as last year (other than hoping something for Somer who was hammered by the previous errata).

I doubt that they'll touch titles outside of near-game-breaking stuff but if they did, Somer2 is IMO the title most in need of help (and that's not just in Bayou but in the whole game). He needs an enormous buff or preferably a complete overhaul - his current schtick doesn't fit his keyword at all and I'm absolutely astounded that it came out of playtests in this form - it's downright bizarre.

Other than that, original Masters that need help IMO are

  • Wong1 is completely outshined by Wong2 and all in all one of the weakest Masters in the game. Needs quite a bit of help.
  • Somer1 was massively gutted in the last errata. He's super difficult to play, easy to disrupt and yet now doesn't even reward good play being kinda mediocre in the hands of good players in optimal situations and very bad otherwise.
  • Brewmaster1 also needs Lasting Liquor.

As for was else needs help

  • Wrastlers (like most cheap beater Minions in this game) are just very bad and there's really no reason to ever take them. They are squishy melee beaters that don't do all that much damage and aren't very mobile.
  • Lightning Bugs are (like most cheap beater Minions in this game) are just very bad and there's really no reason to ever take them. They are squishy ranged beaters that don't do all that much damage and aren't very mobile.
  • I haven't yet had a chance to try LaCroix Raiders with Ophelia2 but previously they were quite bad so my hopes aren't all that high. They are cheap beater Minions...
  • Moon Shinobi are, you guessed it, cheap beater Minions that could use some help.
  • Wizz-Bang could really use some more help, in general.
  • Gupps are entirely useless now. They used to be nice enough summons but with GG2 they aren't good there anymore, either.
  • McTavish needs something. Hard to Wound would help a bit.
  • Burt needs something.

Which models are probably a bit overtuned

  • Bokors (their card draw could be toned down a bit).
  • Some of the Kin (Rami and Francois most likely).
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Digging from the previous errata wishlist thread, the consensus was something like this:

Keywords most in need of buffs: Wizz-Bang, Tri-Chi

Models in need of buffs: Wong, Lightning Bugs, Wrastlers, McTavish, LaCroix Raiders, Burt

Models that could use buffs: Moon Shinobis, Banjonistas

Models that could use a downgrade: Rami, Bokor

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@Math Mathonwydid a pretty good job at pinpointing what is not working in Bayou.

More generally I would say that a lot of our cheap minions have big problems. I mean Bayou player should feel incentive to field a lot of gremlins but right now a lot of 6ss or less minions are just not competitive.

In the master that need help list, I would also add Ulix. He was hurt by the summon rules (not as much as Sommer but still) and was not super competitive before that. It's one of the most card hungry master I ever play... He needs to : a) have less TN across his keyword or b) more built in card draw. Also maybe it would prove to strong but accomplice could be really nice on Ulix.

 

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14 minutes ago, fire5tone said:

I don't think uncompetitive cheap models is entirely an issue we have much, most below 7 do get an acceptable amount of use, theres 32 of those and you maybe don't often see 6, it's just that cheap units tend to be more niche

True... I was specifically speaking about cheap minions that are iconic to a keyword. Let see :

Swampfiend : they're bless with great options. Gupp are thrash tough.

Pigs/soey : special cas since they're intended to be grow. Slop hauler and Whisperer are fine (but see my complaint about high TN across that keyword).

Trixy: great cheap models (and I think it what makes Mah one of the most versatile/ loved master in the bayou).

Wizz bang : Bokor are nutz, but lightning bug are useless. List building got stall because of that.

Infamous : wrastler are bad, flying piglets are really niche (wich is fine for 3ss minions I guess).

Tri-chi : they have a lot of cheap minions... Most of them are okeyish. Moon shinobi should be the backbone of more list, not tech pick.

Big hat : complicated since the cheap minions were intended to be summons... Than you get Somer 2 and you have a bunch of super hire. I think cheap big hat minion could be slightly buff to balance the fact that they're not as good as before when summoned.

Kin : only one cheap minions in keyword... it dies to a stiff breeze and just doesn't make the cut (enforcer and hench are awesome in kin). 

 

So 6 keyword out of 8 could get some help, 3 of them will most likely never hire their cheap iconic keyword minions... in my eyes this is a big problem especially since I don't see the gremlins as an elite faction.

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15 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

 

  • Somer1 was massively gutted in the last errata. He's super difficult to play, easy to disrupt and yet now doesn't even reward good play being kinda mediocre in the hands of good players in optimal situations and very bad otherwise.

Gonna be bold and suggest that they change most of him back to pre-errata. Change the Bayou Two Card again and give him +1 on summoning. Also reinsert the Trigger.

Som’er1 pre-nerf is a drop of water in the ocean that is Titles & ES

 

 

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1 hour ago, GrumpyGrandpa said:

Gonna be bold and suggest that they change most of him back to pre-errata. Change the Bayou Two Card again and give him +1 on summoning. Also reinsert the Trigger.

Som’er1 pre-nerf is a drop of water in the ocean that is Titles & ES

Idk if ES is a good measuring stick. But I think old Somer wouldn't be too crazy, given the Summoning changes. I think no defensive Bayou Two Card is okay. 

7 hours ago, fire5tone said:

I don't think uncompetitive cheap models is entirely an issue we have much, most below 7 do get an acceptable amount of use, theres 32 of those and you maybe don't often see 6, it's just that cheap units tend to be more niche

17 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

 

 

I think bayou does better than most with cheap minions, but yeah. The little guys are often much worse than equivalent points of expensive stuff. 

17 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I'm absolutely astounded that it came out of playtests in this form - it's downright bizarre.

It had to have been some last minute change. I can't believe no one pointed out that they made him focus entirely on a mechanic no models in his keyword use. 

 

Though given that titles just dropped. I think we're unlikely to see nuSomer get big changes.

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28 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Idk if ES is a good measuring stick. But I think old Somer wouldn't be too crazy, given the Summoning changes. I think no defensive Bayou Two Card is okay. 

i think no defensive two card is underselling how much they shot that ability, making it once per turn per model but only on one of two actions max and only while within 6 of somer
(because its once per activation, only on their activation)

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16 hours ago, SEV said:

I was specifically speaking about cheap minions that are iconic to a keyword.

That's a good point, I think! It's kinda funny that it's the cheap Minions that I feel should be the most plentiful in each keyword that tend to be the worst of the bunch. If you never see the most bread-and-butter Minions of several keywords, that indeed seems like a real problem. Especially when everyone owns three of each...

16 hours ago, SEV said:

Infamous : wrastler are bad, flying piglets are really niche (wich is fine for 3ss minions I guess).

Flying Piglets are pretty good, IMO. I often take one and sometimes even two with Zipp. Showboating is one of the few keyword abilities that actually rewards hiring cheap Minions to use for hand sculpting (Charge your down dudes and cheat low or use Dazzling Flourish and cheat low). They are relatively mobile and can Scheme and I've got good use out of making opposing big beaters Slow on an occasion. With four Wounds they often survive a hit. They are worth the 3SS in some match-ups.

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On 1/7/2022 at 7:46 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

Digging from the previous errata wishlist thread, the consensus was something like this:

Keywords most in need of buffs: Wizz-Bang, Tri-Chi

Models in need of buffs: Wong, Lightning Bugs, Wrastlers, McTavish, LaCroix Raiders, Burt

Models that could use buffs: Moon Shinobis, Banjonistas

Models that could use a downgrade: Rami, Bokor

I understand Rami, he is so good I often take him ook to games with vendetta. Also to me he is only reliable model for me to deal with armour. Somehow taking sparks ook or emissary hoping for high tomes does not work for me. In this regard would be sad to see nerf on him. Cost increase by 1ss would feel justified though. 

As for Bokor could someone explain their op potential? Using one card with glowy token to cheat healing action and then discarding a card to draw two cards didn't look op for me on paper. 

But I don't play Wong and suck with Zoraida, so didn't have opportunity to test them much.

 

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6 hours ago, Maciej said:

As for Bokor could someone explain their op potential? Using one card with glowy token to cheat healing action and then discarding a card to draw two cards didn't look op for me on paper. 

 

 

It's a 7, so you don't need to cheat every flip, and Glowy only needs to be spent if you don't just flip the trigger which happens a decent amount. At least if you're using several Bokors, and I've played against a few triple Bokor lists now 😆

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On 1/12/2022 at 9:35 AM, Maciej said:

As for Bokor could someone explain their op potential? Using one card with glowy token to cheat healing action and then discarding a card to draw two cards didn't look op for me on paper. 

Bokor are really really efficient for tueur cost. Probably one of the best stone for stone support model in the game. A fast 8" healer that draw card is already super strong... For that cost you also have an obey a 8" attack (no gun), and a bonus to give shielded to multiple models.. Oh and two of passive abilities (free focus, stun) that don't come out a lot but are still just gravy.

6ss? Yes please.

For the deja vu trigger: 1) you use your glowy after seing the card and you need a 7 (so you'll naturally hit your TN about half the time) ; 2) even if you had to cheat it's a great card cycling ability. Throwing a moderate and a weak for two new cards is a deal I would always take.

Bokor are good almost everywhere in Faction but they have great synergy in KW (Samy love them for an amazing card draw engine).

Fun fact : I think they would be even stronger with a min 1 attack 🤣

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7 minutes ago, SEV said:

Throwing a moderate and a weak for two new cards is a deal I would always take.

Also, given the propensity of Bayou wanting to hurt themselves, getting this card draw out of healing means you're just getting extra bonuses, especially when paired with someone like Sammy who gets to let you draw cards for hurting yourself in the right keywords.

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I support most of what @Math Mathonwy said.

But we need to be careful with Bokors. They really need a nerf, but they're an important key that holds Wizz-Bang together, both with Wong1 and Wong2, so there better be some real decent changes to Wizz-Bang. Wong1 is at the bottom of the food chain with Raspy1 and Wong2 is mediocre. The keyword also got the worst model from the whole Malifaux Burns book, the Backup Assistant.
 

Ruffles also needs a buff, he's horrible, a never pick.

François needs some tuning down for sure, he has been present in way too many lists that provide him the support he needs (Zipp, Zoraida or even Mah). Losing the printed :ram and gaining another trigger or improving the action "Gremlin Menace", to favor the in-keyword play.

I don't think Rami is really a problem, but with Ophelia 2 he has access to some crazy combos, so it's worth to keep him in check.

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5 hours ago, ShinChan said:

Ruffles also needs a buff, he's horrible, a never pick.

But it's soooo cuuuute!

Bokor could be bump to 7ss (maybe with +1 wound)... that would limit them being taken so often OOK and would still be fine for Wong I think. 

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  • Adran changed the title to Errata 2022 - Bayou
On 1/20/2022 at 10:34 AM, ShinChan said:

François needs some tuning down for sure, he has been present in way too many lists that provide him the support he needs (Zipp, Zoraida or even Mah). Losing the printed :ram and gaining another trigger or improving the action "Gremlin Menace", to favor the in-keyword play.

I don't think Francois and Kin need that much of a nerf. Min 3, and flurry isn't that crazy for a 9ss beater. I'd rather eat a SS bump or even two than lose the :ram

Maybe a change the makes him worse or more expensive ook. Nothing springs to mind at the moment. 

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I've used Francois as a beater for Zoraida a couple of times and haven't felt that he is above the curve compared to other choices like a Whiskey Golem or the opposition. That said, the Kin have been doing really well in the Vassal tournament series so I could see them getting hit a bit and in that case I agree that Rami and Francois seem like the prime candidates (along with the Bokors).

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On 1/24/2022 at 9:25 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

One critical thing with francois is that he can stone for crit strike, so he is consistently min 4 when he needs to be. If he is near a target and wants them to take 12 damage, he can make that happen pretty consistently.

It isn't uncommon to have him single activation Archie for example xD

And to do so he needs 3 soulstones, which makes him 12SS model :P 

When compared to other killy models like Agent 46 and or Hinamatsu he doesn't feel OP. 

And when compared to 1SS more expensive killers like Peacekeeper, the power spike is quite apparent. 

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