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The effects on miniatures


Math Mathonwy

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What is people's opinions on the effects on minis? I mean the sculpted on smoke and flames and magical effects an such? Because it seems that the new Masters are getting more of them and I'm not the biggest fan.

Looking at the upcoming page, there's quite a few minis with big effects coming: https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases

Viktorias and Redcaps for example have these giant weapon strike effects that seem especially unnecessary. First of all, I worry about how it's going to turn out in starter PVC. And in Viks case one of the effects seems to be kinda detached and just flaming there in the general vicinity.

Yan Lo has a fine effect on his underside, I think, but then there's these giant play-dough stacks of smoke billowing around that really don't enhance the look IMO. The best-looking and most theme-fitting effects are on Pandora in my opinion. Those really fit and look good. (As an aside, damn Dorian Crowe looks like a fantastic mini!)

I can understand the point in making the Masters stand out more with effects (McCabe doesn't look very "Masterly") but I feel that it's going a bit overboard. Looking at the art, it seems that they are making all the effects present in the art into the renders as well and there's a lot of that!

But yeah, my main issue here is that painting the effects to look good is really difficult and often the effects themselves look really cheap and not good at all (Viks and Ulix as prime examples, though I think that the wings on Kaeris look the worst).

What do you fine forum people think of this trend?

(Oh, and what on earth is going on with Hamelin's bag strap? Is the rat lighter than air and pulling the bag upwards?)

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2 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

But yeah, my main issue here is that painting the effects to look good is really difficult

Speaking of, if the Tara2 is even close to the artwork, what the everliving crap are normal people gonna do? 

Some people in the hobby can do damn near anything. But the average painter, let alone someone new to the hobby? I don't see how you do that well.

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I think the Yan Lo / Viks box is over the top with effects. I don't mind so much an effect on a model. The spell effect on Nekima isn't to bad looking, although I have no idea what it is. It's also probably unnecessary. The one with Ivan is maybe necessary to make the model make sense of what it's supposed to be doing. I kinda like the Pandora effect, but Titania is a bit much. I think I would just prefer a different sculpt. I think the new McMorning is great for example, even though he isn't much different. 

You're absolutely right that painting the effect to have the right look is imperative or the whole model will be terrible. 

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4 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

What is people's opinions on the effects on minis? I mean the sculpted on smoke and flames and magical effects an such? Because it seems that the new Masters are getting more of them and I'm not the biggest fan.

Looking at the upcoming page, there's quite a few minis with big effects coming: https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases

Viktorias and Redcaps for example have these giant weapon strike effects that seem especially unnecessary. First of all, I worry about how it's going to turn out in starter PVC. And in Viks case one of the effects seems to be kinda detached and just flaming there in the general vicinity.

Yan Lo has a fine effect on his underside, I think, but then there's these giant play-dough stacks of smoke billowing around that really don't enhance the look IMO. The best-looking and most theme-fitting effects are on Pandora in my opinion. Those really fit and look good. (As an aside, damn Dorian Crowe looks like a fantastic mini!)

I can understand the point in making the Masters stand out more with effects (McCabe doesn't look very "Masterly") but I feel that it's going a bit overboard. Looking at the art, it seems that they are making all the effects present in the art into the renders as well and there's a lot of that!

But yeah, my main issue here is that painting the effects to look good is really difficult and often the effects themselves look really cheap and not good at all (Viks and Ulix as prime examples, though I think that the wings on Kaeris look the worst).

What do you fine forum people think of this trend?

(Oh, and what on earth is going on with Hamelin's bag strap? Is the rat lighter than air and pulling the bag upwards?)

I dont really see the issue.  If you don't like the effect... dont put them on the model?  I'm not wild about magic smoke myself, but the models I've seen / built so far seem like they can go smokeless with minor alterations (a little greenstuff to fix a connection point or 2).  That said, in some of the more recent releases (spelleaters / ivan2 / etc) the smoke is part of the connection points to the base, so if you want to go smokeless you're in for a more difficult pinning/basing process (and I'd rather a bunch of smoke than a model with the connection surface area of beckoners...)

As for the 'you shouldn't have x because x is hard to paint'.... I'm not the greatest painter, but I like it when I have to flex a bit to paint something more difficult.  I think that's more interesting than keeping models more basic as it'll be hard to paint.  Specially since there's currently a lot of streamers painting malifaux models, and most of them have hit the new boxes, so there should be a few places to take a look at how to paint the magics.... and if there isn't that would be a good place for some community member to do some tutorial posts / videos.  As I know I've looked at 'how do i do fire / lightning / smoke / etc posts before'

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19 hours ago, dannydb said:

Yer the new hoff lightning is a good example of this, I think a good painter might be able to make it snap but avarage Joe/newbie might stuggle, and without the lightning, well hoff looks like he's slam dunking 

Fully agreed! The suggestion of just removing effects often makes the minis look really weird since the effect is a central part of the design. As it should be, mind you! If you put in effects, they really shouldn't be an optional afterthought but rather the mini should be "reacting" to them. Which naturally makes it very difficult to remove them.

The other argument of just "git gud" essentially is, I suppose, fair enough, but it isn't very helpful, I feel.

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In many cases I like the sculpted fx.

I’d just wish that the models would be produced as so the effects are optional, giving modellers maximum freedom with minimum hassle.

Worst example is not Wyrd, but Corvus Belli. They made an Android girl with a pet robotiger, a cool model, where the Android girl pets the Tiger on the head - and chose to sculpt the girls hand with the Tigers head.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/17/2021 at 4:52 AM, muraki said:

I dont really see the issue.  If you don't like the effect... dont put them on the model?

Depends on the sculpt as other have said. Not always possible. I didn't love all the extra ghost things on the Goryo and didn't use them all, but it was a pain to get it to work. 

I don't mind a little bit, but I agree some are getting a bit too much. I'm not a good enough painter to make those big flatish spaces look good either :( 

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The thing I always try to remind myself with these is that Wyrd started as a modelling company, not a game company. Malifaux was born after the minis, not before it. Thus, I think one of their passions is pushing the envelop with miniature design. 

I still remember the time I told another mini's player that Malifaux was my first and only experience with the hobby and he laughed saying, "You chose one of the most advanced level model companies to start with". Everything I've seen and read appears to confirm that. Wyrd really tries to be unique in the way they approach their model design, and I've honestly found the vast majority of it challenging. Don't even get me started on my Nightmare McCabe assembly woes. 

All that said, I agree that getting the smoke/lightning/ethereal glow/blood spurt or shower effects right is really challenging. For some of these models, if you don't nail it, the model doesn't look right. I am still not very good at any of those things, but I do enjoy being challenged. However, I can fully appreciate that there are those who don't enjoy it, and perhaps are painting more to play. 

I think this might be the dividing line - the ones who paint for sake of the hobby, and the ones who paint to play. I am in the former, so I like all the difficult things they chuck at me. It makes me have to up my game. For the latter group I would agree that they might provide some way for players to build the model without all the extra bits. I doubt they will do this though, because molding from what I have read is not that easy. It's one thing to give Carver two head options, and another to make a Yan Lo with and without all that smoke. I feel like that would be two TOTALLY different model sculpts... which would likely up the price.

Long story short - I think they add in those dynamic and difficult effects because a passion for the modelling hobby - and making unique and challenging models - lies at the heart of the company. I personally like them because I like being challenged, and I have a strong feeling they will only be pushing harder to up the level of intricacy with their models. I fully appreciate the frustration of having to get them right though, but I don't know that there is an easy - or cheap - way to provide for players/hobbyists with different levels of skill/investment in painting.

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  • 2 months later...

The Upcoming page was updated: https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases

Out of the new Masters quite a few got effects

  1. Wong has a giant, lumpy effect that isn't very pretty at all. Otherwise I rather like Wong's design.
  2. Sandeep has a giant effect throne but it does really fit the mini and the design of the effect is probably my favourite of the bunch.
  3. Shenlong OTOH has a pretty ugly effect but at least is looks like it would be easy to cut off.
  4. I hate the look of title Lynch from a design perspective but the effect is rather fine. There's something happening there other than just playdoughy lumps, you know.
  5. Levi's horse has some kinda flames on his legs, I think? Enh.
  6. Maxine is nice enough a mini but the absolutely enormous effect looks rather lazy. It's in a style similar to original Zipp but just blown up.
  7. Youko, if my eyes don't deceive me, has the saddest little effect ever next to her foot. Is it a cartoon dust cloud?
  8. Brewie has super lazy and weird splashes. Really not feeling them at all. I mean, just look at the one growing from the bottle behind his shoulder! Urgh. (Shojo is amazing, though)
  9. Lady Justice has Wyrd flames. Not a huge fan but they're not actively bad.
  10. Tara I've no idea about until I see a painted version. The carnivorous attack hair looks weird, though.
  11. Jedza is an absolutely amazing mini but the effect is kinda lazy again. Looks like the whole spirit guy is separate, though, so that's nice.
  12. Zoraida is superb as well with a ton of movement and cartoony witch face. This box is the definite highlight of the bunch.

Some didn't get effects

  1. Von Schtook is really cool. He has some texture on his frock coat and the zombie is cool. 
  2. Parker's coat is flapping in a massive gust of wind but nothing else on him is affected. That much wind should show elsewhere as well, I feel. Not a fan.
  3. Basse OTOH is a very cool and menacing mini.
  4. Zipp is just super ugly. His look and proportions are not at all to my liking and the rope concept just doesn't work for me at all. A real shame. (As an aside, Fishbocker is probably my favourite of all of these. He is absolutely amazing in every way from concept to execution and from the pose to the details!)
  5. Somer looks positively grotesque. I rather like him.
  6. Seamus is cool except what happened to his face? It looks like an old lecher from an 80s soap opera that has had a bit too much facial surgery! His pose is also off compared to his art which really conveyed the sinister.

So yeah. There's my quick review of the new titles minis. A pretty fine bunch in general but still not a fan of the effects. Though it might just be that so many of them don't look very good as effects. Some are very cool (Sandeep) but most are just kinda lumpy and uninspired or otherwise very ho-hum. And then a couple are really let down by them like Brewie.

The best individual mini is Fishbocker and the best box is Jedza-Zoraida.

P.S. can anyone explain what's going on with the White Rabbit Co. stand? Did the sculptor just stop half-way?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/7/2022 at 10:48 PM, Math Mathonwy said:

P.S. can anyone explain what's going on with the White Rabbit Co. stand? Did the sculptor just stop half-way?

I was wondering the same thing! It does not look great. And are those the gremlin's feet? He's ridiculously tall if so.

Curious to see it in person. 

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