is there any fluff for the alt characters?

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

as the title says liek for the nightmare boxes do they have any fluff? 

[Adran]

Rarely. 

From what I remember there is a story with Mr Cooper (Nightmare Colette) in chronicles, There is  a TTB module for MAlifaux 1984 (nightmare Mei feng), and a TTB augment for the Silent Knight (Limited Killjoy). Alexei Solkov (alt Joss) was a TTB character in one of the worldwide events that won the right to get a model. I think Dr Dufresne (Alt McMorning) might have been in a Story with Bishop and Barbaros (Or Emiline Belarose (Miss Sybelle)or Amelia Bathoy (Nicodem) have shown up , I can't remember which). 

I can't remember reading any others, but they may exist.

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

nothing for the alt ulix then, Rocinate. i wish there was some fluff even if it was just a paragraph 

[Adran]

Not that I know of. I haven't read Into the Bayou, which is probably the most likely place they would have put it, but I don't remember anyone mentioning it. 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

tis a shame oh well 

[solkan]

I thought Belarose (the alt with the model that says ‘Victorian Lady’ on the runner) was the character used as plot device for the Through the Breach beastiary sections...

[fire5tone]

18 hours ago, solkan said:

I thought Belarose (the alt with the model that says ‘Victorian Lady’ on the runner) was the character used as plot device for the Through the Breach beastiary sections...

She is, the bestiarys except core and now from nightmares were written by her and are effectively a story 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

i think the alts would be more immersive if they and even just five lines of fluff just my opinion. 

[Adran]

13 hours ago, Mr Oogie Boogie said:

i think the alts would be more immersive if they and even just five lines of fluff just my opinion. 

They may be but does it make them sell better? Would a simple story make me more likely to buy a nightmare set? I don't think it would in most cases. 

On the up side Wyrd does seem to be trying to add story to the sets when possible at the moment, as seen by the recent Penny Dreadfuls that cover the latest Nightmare box and the halloween boxes. 

I would be hard pressed to find Nightmare Mei Feng Immersive by any standards, even though the set does have a TTB story, so its probably something in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people objected to Rollins Black  and the Ramones when they first came out as not fitting the setting, but it is a very popular Nightmare box (based on the complaints when it runs out of stock, or when it didn't get M3 cards to begin with).  

 

I may not be the typical customer,  but I buy Nightmare and Alternative sets because they contain interesting models that I want to build/paint/play with. Attaching a short story to them doesn't change anything for me. 

 

I forgot to mention, models like Luther and Genubu are alternatives which came with stories and special scenarios (for TTB as well as Malifaux if I remember right). 

Wyrd also works on its own time scale, in that English Ivan was first mentioned in a story over 10 years ago, and has now only just got rules. They may well write stories that include the existing alternative characters in the future. I'm sure when they next need a gremlin dressed in a unicorn suit in one of their stories they will look at Rocinate and see if he fits. 

 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

i personnally am more likely to buy a kit bsed on its story but that might be cvos im an ex warhammer/gw player  rocinante is a she i believe 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

also a lot of gw players buy models due to their fluff and back story even if they never intend to use those figures. there id solid proof fluff helps sell

[Adran]

I'm an ex gw player with multiple armies and I don't think I can think of any models I or any of my groups bought because of the fluff. There are ones bought for painting/ modelling rather than playing, and certainly some special characters were a mixture of fluff and rules, but none that were just bought on story. Different views for different folks. 

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Mr Oogie Boogie said:

also a lot of gw players buy models due to their fluff and back story even if they never intend to use those figures. there id solid proof fluff helps sell

As a periodic GW player, I call malarkey.  😛  Any model with a cool enough to buy it for its own sake is/was cool enough to buy for appearances alone, or it’s actually a matter that the game mechanics for the model were the contributing factor.

A five page biography for Gang Member #5 in one of the Necromunda boxes isn’t going to sell that box.

 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

not for my mates or myself  and we played since the 80s  when  models had their individual history 

 

do you remember when rank and file troops all had names anbd a bit of history like the orc mercenaries. for example 

 

or the nightmare box of skeletons that each ordinary skeleton had a story for it. and they where just skelebobs. 

 

 and yes the back story helps with emersion and does boost sales, no matter what you wrongly think lol 

 

thin kabout it this way, if  back stories didnt effect sales why bother having any stories at all, if eveyrone hates the back stories of characters like you suggest then why put any history in at all, cos no one needs any storylines at all cos everyone would just buy the miniatures without question with no history or explanation. 

 

there is a paper written on the importance of narratives in wargaming https://www.jstor.org/stable/26397225?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents

 

in it it states that the narrative  creates high end engagement and emersion, and can mean the success or failure of a game. 

for example would people  buy more of yarrick the generic commissar with powerfist ,  because he has a cool fist. or would  they be more likely to buy yarrick, hero commissar, hero of Armageddon and nemesis to ghazgul

 

for example the black library books where created to make people buy more models,  and specifically the models of the heros you find in the books.  they also act as a way to get people to emerse, they arnt just writing the novels for the sake of the novels 

[Adran]

But very few of the people bought gaunts ghosts without the intent to use them in a guard force. Or at least from the people I know. 

Malifaux alts are different in that you aren't buying new rules.  You are just buying a different sculpt of the same rules. Some alts have a new name and some don't. 

I bought Alith Anar because I wanted the moon bow. I bought Mr Cooper because I wanted the flying monkeys.  I bought rollins black because I wanted mounted guards, and the monowheel was cool. The story attached to Cooper was nice to read,  but didn't figure at all in my choice to buy him. Likewise I'm not going to buy Easter viks based on a story that explains why one is dressed as a rabbit. 

There probably are people that would buy a commisar yarrick even if he was worse in terms of rules than a generic commisar. And story is a good tool for selling the game as a whole. I don't disagree there, but malifaux by default is a more character driven game than anything from GW.   I just am not attached to the alternative names as a new character, they are just a version of the original to me. 

[solkan]

I think it’s worth considering one point:  If there’s anyone who knows whether the presence of background material influences the sales of one of Wyrd’s alternate art figures, it’s going to be Wyrd.  😕  And that’s before getting into questions like “What does Mr. Caroland want the product to be?” vs. quoting academic papers about the uses of non-tabletop wargaming in training exercises.

 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

more like what do the shareholders want it to be. even company owners have bosses

[Maniacal_cackle]

19 minutes ago, Mr Oogie Boogie said:

more like what do the shareholders want it to be. even company owners have bosses

To my knowledge, Wyrd isn't publicly traded? So I don't know that they have shareholders to answer to.

Though that said most companies are operating in a massive information deficit. It's entirely possible there's good evidence that increased narratives would boost sales.

But that said, there's an opportunity cost to everything, so even if there was evidence of increased sales, you'd have to have sufficient evidence of sufficient sales to displace whatever their other projects are.

[solkan]

42 minutes ago, Mr Oogie Boogie said:

more like what do the shareholders want it to be. even company owners have bosses

Please stop and look up "Wyrd Miniatures, LLC".

I know there's a saying about preaching to the choir, but the problem is that what you're doing isn't even that.  The choir and the choir director are off busy working, and we're a bunch of congregation members bullshitting about someone's opinion about what the choir should be doing, while the usher has to hang around to make sure no one starts a fight.  😐

 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

46 minutes ago, solkan said:

Please stop and look up "Wyrd Miniatures, LLC".

I know there's a saying about preaching to the choir, but the problem is that what you're doing isn't even that.  The choir and the choir director are off busy working, and we're a bunch of congregation members bullshitting about someone's opinion about what the choir should be doing, while the usher has to hang around to make sure no one starts a fight.  😐

 

anbd your point is? 

[Maladroit]

On 11/27/2021 at 1:12 AM, Adran said:

. . . . . I think Dr Dufresne (Alt McMorning) might have been in a Story with Bishop and Barbaros (Or Emiline Belarose (Miss Sybelle)or Amelia Bathoy (Nicodem) have shown up , I can't remember which). 

I can't remember reading any others, but they may exist.

If it is the story of how Bishop and Barbaros escaped the fighting pits, then I don't think that was Dufresne, the Dr in that story was scarred horribly by a Nephilim and was employed by the fighting pits to treat the fighters - from memory the Nephilim in the story wasn't specifically identified as Barbaros, but had damaged wings with cut tendons (which I think is similar to Barbaros's story). I don't remember where this particular story is - chronicles I think.

 

Dufresne is definitely in the TTB In defence of Innocence book, where she is the town doctor. There is quite a good description of her on page 59. Not in this one, but the diary of Emiline Bellarose is an extensive feature of some TTB books - I think you will get a very good understanding of her character from reading even one of these - Into the Steam is a good one to try if you can get your hands on it.

 

Off topic: This thread did not go how I thought it would . . .

[Maladroit]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:57 AM, Adran said:

Not that I know of. I haven't read Into the Bayou, which is probably the most likely place they would have put it, but I don't remember anyone mentioning it. 

Nothing that I can see in there, no . . . 

[Mr Oogie Boogie]

On 12/3/2021 at 12:38 PM, aquenaton said:

I really enjoy knowing the lore behind the alt-models in the factions. The idea of the mad circus is good, the pirate-molly es amazing and the cat-lady that is Hamelin all look good and knowing they have a place in the universe is cool. Some models are just alternatives, like another pose from Seamus or the likes. Those do not need anything IMO, the christmas Rasputina does not need anything, as it doesn't make much sense.

As Malifaux is a game based on characters, adding importance to a character that will only be an alternative master may be counter-producing, as that character is "less avaigable" than the others on the big plot. I like to see small stories about the alt-models, but would not like to see them in the spotlight of the Big Lore, we have the real masters for that

i agree, thats why i say just 5 or 6 lines is enough