title?

[Plaag]

ok, trikks tournament ended for me, so i played 4 rounds each with different guild title

1) lucius vs kirai title

not enough rated amount of summon models from kirai, also didnt focused gwisins, so we ended with me losing, but ive killed models maybe combined cost of 40-50ss(datsueba, ikirie, gwisin+gst, 2-4 enslaved spirit, maybe 2 other 4ss minion, kirai, 2 seishin) and opponent had band with combined cost 30ss maybe at the endgame; so too many summons with simple walk or charge and many dmg with kirai action with no cap

and my thoughts on lucius-he lack of cards very much now(seamus have 4 actions and whisper to jump even with empty hand) and it was much more better if he could obey himself with bonus make an action, not so good as it looked first time when u read a card, but additional schemerunner with dmg for guild(not only lj)

2) hoff vs yanlo title

lost, but played not very good, also lack of card draw make a lot of pressure, also wrongly marked prior targets for myself(also tested that stagger doesnt do anything on komainu, because yanlo still obey them), and another important part-howard is not good at all in title-he have no fast, no grit, so it was just marker for opponent "12ss wasted"

i can say that pilons are totally broken-even with yanlo remove markers at the end of activation i let opponent score only 1 point with symbols, i think better to make them distractible or ht0 not impass; hoff by himself is very good-u can give a lot of tokens, place models and bulldose, also if u have hazardous-your 2/4/5 becomes 3/5/6+puncture, so maybe better to play this way

3) sonnia vs original leveticus

this round i win, but thought that leveticus will simply kill my models

davos here started very aggressive-with herald he came into center of map, where i just shoot at him with spelleaters+exspert marksman, gave him burn built in, with sonnia droped pyre(dmg with no resist) pushed leveticus there and let him live with 4 hp, so he activated, taked focus, missed few times, ended activation with 9 burn with 2hp, so i replaced him and this way leveticus was not beeing able to do smthing all game-he just walked, than when i revealed asassinate-hide

so with some great amount of luck i was able to win

so sonnia have those broken pyres severe+not ignorable hazardous, that gives dmg with bonus, spelleater deals additional dmg with no resist and good resourse feedback with stones from dead models with burn and surge/drain magic

very strong master that can make all your crew sit in deployment by droping pyres in several places

4)perdita vs molly

perdita become just super strong-those summons and card draw with end activation discard just makes too many of all

so most important ups-bestial and nephilim hunter

i taked ninio, santiago, francisko, stuart, rider

but it is much more better to take guild mage not stuart as legislat advised me later(u always discard to make another family model to take concentrate-u draw a card and heal at same time)

also this amount of instruments...prevent healing, ignoring incorp, stun with mv to resist - just insane

also u can make ricoshet with trick shot at your model(dmg with no resist..not again)

so it looks like developers wanted to make guild great again-almost all guild titles are strong/broken

need to mention, that i taked rider in each crew and he always make so many work-this dmg (with no resist...again) with 4r trigger is just super insane, when it will be finally nerfed?

and i cannt understand why so many guild masters have htw now? they started to rot or something else? combined with llc it makes them super tanky, i think this is not good at all

[RiceP.]

12 hours ago, Plaag said:

and another important part-howard is not good at all in title-he have no fast, no grit, so it was just marker for opponent "13ss wasted"

I don't think i completely understood that. I get the "no fast" part, but why no grit? And why 13ss?

12 hours ago, Plaag said:

need to mention, that i taked rider in each crew and he always make so many work-this dmg (with no resist...again) with 4r trigger is just super insane, when it will be finally nerfed?

I hope never, i like the model and he's fun to use.

 

Besides that, i like what i'm seeing here. Sonnia and Perdita in 3e always felt somewhat uninspired and bland to me, so i'm glad to hear that they are finally have more depth than simply dishing out damage.

Also, i have to ask, did "confiscated lore" had as much impact as people on this forum speculated? How many times did you used it? How much value did you get from it? 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, RiceP. said:

I don't think i completely understood that. I get the "no fast" part, but why no grit? And why 13ss?

I hope never, i like the model and he's fun to use.

 

Besides that, i like what i'm seeing here. Sonnia and Perdita in 3e always felt somewhat uninspired and bland to me, so i'm glad to hear that they are finally have more depth than simply dishing out damage.

Also, i have to ask, did "confiscated lore" had as much impact as people on this forum speculated? How many times did you used it? How much value did you get from it? 

howard+llc 12ss, yes

he have no fast and no grit, so 12 ss that makes 2 actions...better take peacekeeper ofcourse

rider need to be nerfed, maybe making this trigger back at 5r-just compare-dead riders 5c trigger makes 2 dmg(it was nerfed from 2/3/4) ignoring htk and pale 4r trigger makes 2irr!+burn

so spamming it from turn 2 make most enemy crew be dead turn 4

confiscated lore is a great action with both useful triggers, i spammed it a lot

and what i want say here-we may make strong masters, but not overpowered like now-rework hoff pilons, make sonnias pyre severe, but ignorable or remove built in tomes from her gun, and perdita-i dont really know how to make her more balance now, because its complicated problem-before she lack of cards and could make no dmg, but now with this card draw and additional bonuses from summon ups she can annihilate opponent, it could be npe 

 

[4thstringer]

Thanks, that was very informative.

Guild mage feels particularly good into Molly.

[RiceP.]

13 minutes ago, Plaag said:

and what i want say here-we may make strong masters, but not overpowered like now-rework hoff pilons, make sonnias pyre severe, but ignorable or remove built in tomes from her gun, and perdita-i dont really know how to make her more balance now, because its complicated problem-before she lack of cards and could make no dmg, but now with this card draw and additional bonuses from summon ups she can annihilate opponent, it could be npe

Sounds like we finally have some of those NPEs of our own, to match explorers and other factions 😄. I say wyrd should not nerf them, but instead bring other masters in line with the stronger ones, it makes the game all that more fun.

[4thstringer]

14 hours ago, Plaag said:

 

3) sonnia vs original leveticus

this round i win, but thought that leveticus will simply kill my models

davos here started very aggressive-with herald he came into center of map, where i just shoot at him with spelleaters+exspert marksman, gave him burn built in, with sonnia droped pyre(dmg with no resist) pushed leveticus there and let him live with 4 hp, so he activated, taked focus, missed few times, ended activation with 9 burn with 2hp, so i replaced him and this way leveticus was not beeing able to do smthing all game-he just walked, than when i revealed asassinate-hide

so with some great amount of luck i was able to win

so sonnia have those broken pyres severe+not ignorable hazardous, that gives dmg with bonus, spelleater deals additional dmg with no resist and good resourse feedback with stones from dead models with burn and surge/drain magic

very strong master that can make all your crew sit in deployment by droping pyres in several places

 

I watched this game on longtin's YouTube channel.  It seemed like the amount of pulse damage available in Sonia was a big problem for Brien.  Do you think that will be a problem going forward? You talk about the unignorable severe, but that didn't seem to have near the impact in your game.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

I watched this game on longtin's YouTube channel.  It seemed like the amount of pulse damage available in Sonia was a big problem for Brien.  Do you think that will be a problem going forward? You talk about the unignorable severe, but that didn't seem to have near the impact in your game.

because it was such matchup-leveticus makes opponent to make pressure on him or be dead, also with herald he already was in the centre, so it was not effective there trying to block rest of his crew, which sonnia can make not hard-1-2 atacks with built in pyre, 1-3 pyres with bonus and here we go-3-maybe 6 markers(some of them block road, some are already under models)

[Cursed25]

18 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I watched this game on longtin's YouTube channel.

can you give me the name of his channel?  I'm always eager to find new Malifaux to watch! thx!

[4thstringer]

35 minutes ago, Plaag said:

because it was such matchup-leveticus makes opponent to make pressure on him or be dead, also with herald he already was in the centre, so it was not effective there trying to block rest of his crew, which sonnia can make not hard-1-2 atacks with built in pyre, 1-3 pyres with bonus and here we go-3-maybe 6 markers(some of them block road, some are already under models)

I agree that the pyres are strong, just that it didn't seem the be a factor in that game.

[4thstringer]

I'm kinda surprised the more I think about it that your conclusion is that this stuff if op.  This seemed like a very below average finish for you 

[4thstringer]

41 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

can you give me the name of his channel?  I'm always eager to find new Malifaux to watch! thx!

https://youtube.com/channel/UCaaFplxT9Sjex3_Q_YbW6Qw

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

I'm kinda surprised the more I think about it that your conclusion is that this stuff if op.  This seemed like a very below average finish for you 

i played first time with perdita and hoff title, and second time with sonnia and lucius, so plan was developed during the game, also i played not much with guild at all-maybe 10 games 

also i didnt knew much abt other players titles like yanlo and kirai

also some player like @Legislatwhich is keen on playing guild i think will abuse all this stuff with greater results)

[ShinChan]

16 hours ago, Plaag said:

4)perdita vs molly

perdita become just super strong-those summons and card draw with end activation discard just makes too many of all

so most important ups-bestial and nephilim hunter

i taked ninio, santiago, francisko, stuart, rider

but it is much more better to take guild mage not stuart as legislat advised me later(u always discard to make another family model to take concentrate-u draw a card and heal at same time)

also this amount of instruments...prevent healing, ignoring incorp, stun with mv to resist - just insane

also u can make ricoshet with trick shot at your model(dmg with no resist..not again)

so it looks like developers wanted to make guild great again-almost all guild titles are strong/broken

No Abuela? I've played 6 games against Perdita2 and Abuela is feels super strong. Being able to shoot with Niño at Stat 6  or with the summoned Monster Hunters with Stat 7 is just ridiculous (and built-in Family Values).

 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

No Abuela? I've played 6 games against Perdita2 and Abuela is feels super strong. Being able to shoot with Niño at Stat 6  or with the summoned Monster Hunters with Stat 7 is just ridiculous (and built-in Family Values).

 

but who are u going to replace? i think that ninio, santiago, francisko, pale and mage/stuart are musthave

also if u replace any u get not additional good actions, but just+1 to actions outside of activation...so i think it is not so good

[ShinChan]

2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

but who are u going to replace? i think that ninio, santiago, francisko, pale and mage/stuart are musthave

also if u replace any u get not additional good actions, but just+1 to actions outside of activation...so i think it is not so good

Santiago would be my first choice. Perdita2 generates easily 4-6 out of activation actions, so that +1 really comes into play very often. Also that pseudobey that ignores concealment and can be used "A Por Él!" basically gives Niño a 3rd action, but adding +1 to his Stat. 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

Santiago would be my first choice. Perdita2 generates easily 4-6 out of activation actions, so that +1 really comes into play very often. Also that pseudobey that ignores concealment and can be used "A Por Él!" basically gives Niño a 3rd action, but adding +1 to his Stat. 

u suggest to replace santiago?

[4thstringer]

I think replacing Santiago in perdita 2 is a mistake.  Since you don't have perditas Normal damage, he does a ton of work.

[ShinChan]

2 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I think replacing Santiago in perdita 2 is a mistake.  Since you don't have perditas Normal damage, he does a ton of work.

Depends if you bring a Pale Rider or not. Also Perdita2 already puts a lot of damage through summons. Doing 4 attacks with Francisco (3 stat 7 + 1 stat 8 ) is great and all the damage you need.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

Depends if you bring a Pale Rider or not. Also Perdita2 already puts a lot of damage through summons. Doing 4 attacks with Francisco (3 stat 7 + 1 stat 8 ) is great and all the damage you need.

but first of all u need to deal dmg on a range, not in melee and santiago is much more better than francisco at this, also he had very useful triggers on each suit

and unlike francisko he could use 2 different useful bonus actions-he had choise for it, so i think if u want to remove someone-better replace ninio

[Angelshard]

Don't know the scheme pool, but how come you didn't use sly six-shots? He seems like a solid addition to both versions of perdita. 

I agree that hoffmans pylons needs a tweak. I'm not sure if they would be more fair if symbols wasn't a strat. Personally I think they should just lose impassable, if you could stand in them most of the issues would be solved and destructible would be too harsh, I think. 

I disagree on pale rider. Sure his damage trigger is better than dead riders, but dead, as I see him, gets better results by charging in and taking an enemy back to his own lines (or far away from everything) than he does using his bonus. 

I might also be biased by the fact that all my regular opponents have begun teching in stun against guild, as the faction is generally very trigger dependent. And a rider with stun is close to useless. 

Regarding the survivability of title masters. Guild masters, pre title are mostly made of wet paper, except for Basse and Hoffman, they are balanced after llc being in faction, so they all come with a 2ss tax if you want them to last a game. 

Any reason you didn't try lady justice2? If you want a master in guild I think might be too much, it's her. The amount of disruption, damage and utility she gives is just extreme. 

 

 

[Plaag]

2 hours ago, Angelshard said:

Don't know the scheme pool, but how come you didn't use sly six-shots? He seems like a solid addition to both versions of perdita. 

I agree that hoffmans pylons needs a tweak. I'm not sure if they would be more fair if symbols wasn't a strat. Personally I think they should just lose impassable, if you could stand in them most of the issues would be solved and destructible would be too harsh, I think. 

I disagree on pale rider. Sure his damage trigger is better than dead riders, but dead, as I see him, gets better results by charging in and taking an enemy back to his own lines (or far away from everything) than he does using his bonus. 

I might also be biased by the fact that all my regular opponents have begun teching in stun against guild, as the faction is generally very trigger dependent. And a rider with stun is close to useless. 

Regarding the survivability of title masters. Guild masters, pre title are mostly made of wet paper, except for Basse and Hoffman, they are balanced after llc being in faction, so they all come with a 2ss tax if you want them to last a game. 

Any reason you didn't try lady justice2? If you want a master in guild I think might be too much, it's her. The amount of disruption, damage and utility she gives is just extreme. 

 

 

sly six shots is useless to my mind

pylons are ht4 as i remember, so even if they are not impass-u cannt climb there(see rulebook) 

and i can say that your opponents were not expirienced enough, because rider must hide until end of turn 2 and then just kill all stuff in great range, also guild stuart came almost in each guild crew, so removes conditions very simple

abt balance around llc-we need to play and intaract with opponent and when u cannt do so game becomes just useless-like hoff pilons make opp not be available to score any strat points, like laugh off makes some models not be effected by any opp movement tricks-u say to the opponent that he is not able to score/deny some points; this is bad for a game; and armor+htw is mosr annoying defensive tech in game, so look at all guild titles-3 have armor+htw, one have armor+2, lucius reduce dmg like armor+2, nelly have ability like serene countanance, sonnia have shielded+armor and only perdita will have armor+1-this is too much for models that are already very, very strong(if u will look at other factions-u will not find so many strong titles with same defensive possibilities)

i would agree before titles came that llc is upgrade that clue whole faction, but titles are too strong to have this upgrade as key upgrade of faction

and i didnt tried lj title because i already saw her and she is totally broken

[Angelshard]

31 minutes ago, Plaag said:

pylons are ht4 as i remember, so even if they are not impass-u cannt climb there(see rulebook) 

I would agree with you, except after the colette title reveal, I had a long discussion with other on this forum and ended up agreeing that there's nothing that says you can't stand in something that has the height trait. The only two traits that prevents you from moving through them are impassable and climbing. The height trait itself doesn't stop you from moving through it. Except if it's a hill, as that specific example doesn't follow the terrain trait rules, neither does stairs.

Personally I'd love if they changed llc. Make armour +1 the minion only and replace hunker down with something useful. It would just require a rework of a lot of other models, who depend on llc to survive.

I'm curious why you  think Sly is useless? He offers a lot of utility and is a decent scheme runner. For 6ss I don't think you can ask for more than is on his card.

Rider might be lack of experience, but if you hide him until the end of turn two, then you lose out on ride with me, which is one of his  major points and if something can give him stun on their attack, then they can still cause around 7 damage on a rider, without too much trouble. Sure it takes a big card investment, but for a rider it seems to be worth it.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Angelshard said:

I would agree with you, except after the colette title reveal, I had a long discussion with other on this forum and ended up agreeing that there's nothing that says you can't stand in something that has the height trait. The only two traits that prevents you from moving through them are impassable and climbing. The height trait itself doesn't stop you from moving through it. Except if it's a hill, as that specific example doesn't follow the terrain trait rules, neither does stairs.

Personally I'd love if they changed llc. Make armour +1 the minion only and replace hunker down with something useful. It would just require a rework of a lot of other models, who depend on llc to survive.

I'm curious why you  think Sly is useless? He offers a lot of utility and is a decent scheme runner. For 6ss I don't think you can ask for more than is on his card.

Rider might be lack of experience, but if you hide him until the end of turn two, then you lose out on ride with me, which is one of his  major points and if something can give him stun on their attack, then they can still cause around 7 damage on a rider, without too much trouble. Sure it takes a big card investment, but for a rider it seems to be worth it.

hide means u make ride with me, one shot and then hide somwhere far from battle

also even if u want to climb there-u cannt score symbols if they are blocked with pilons as i did in game, because symbols are ht0 and u must be btb with them to score

sly have no place in any crew-he doesnt give any good actions/auras(projectile is too weak, false claim too and his bonus u will not use 95% of game)

[Rufess]

The only terrain trait that allow models moving vertically up and down along is Climbable. If the Pylon Markers would lose Impassible trait, then a model could just walk inside and remain staying in the table surface without gaining Ht/Sz, hence could be base contact with other objects in the same surface.

Just like Lamp Marker from Lamplighter, model can walk through or stay over the marker, but cannot block LoS from others to the marker unless it is Sz 4 or greater. Since models drawing LoS to the Sz 4 Lamp Marker can ignore other object with Sz 3 or less.

[Maniacal_cackle]

16 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

I watched this game on longtin's YouTube channel.  It seemed like the amount of pulse damage available in Sonia was a big problem for Brien.  Do you think that will be a problem going forward? You talk about the unignorable severe, but that didn't seem to have near the impact in your game.

I think in general, there is a LOT more anti-bubble tech in the game now (Jack Daw 2 comes to mind), so the meta just may need to adapt to the fact that there's a lot of pulse damage floating around.