Soulstone Miner - How?

[FredSpaghett]

Hello! 

I played my first game with Mah, and got very dissapointed with the soulstone miner. I played vs. Misaki as always, and lost as usual. 

The fact that it cant be used for any scheme or strat the same turn that it unburies makes me find it completely useless. 

It doesn't survive catch and release.

Its plans gets revealed and ruined when going for outflank, same goes for turf war. 

Am I missing something?

Who thinks this model is a good scheme runner and what do you use it for?

Thanks in advance! 

 

[Jordon]

Yeah this model has been through the wringer several times. At first it was an amazing scheme runner, then it was just used as a useful Magical Training caddy. The game has changed so much since then so I wonder if it needs a tweak in the opposite direction now. 

I've still had some success just using them as a way to keep my opponent honest. They can be pretty annoying to deal with for your average scheme runner/back line support model. I use them to try and pick off the stragglers or to pressure my opponent on their weak flanks. Once the job is done, then I'll focus on schemes and stones.

They certainly aren't what they used to be but I don't think they're terrible either. Most crews can find better uses for their stones but I do occasionally bring them for the mind games.   

Edit: Oh and markers sound like they're going to be a real thing with all these new titles, so that might give them a bit of a new lease on life as well. 

[fire5tone]

So SSM are significantly better for mah than arcanist now probably, they don't count for schemes and strats but that's not what they're for anymore, a denial piece. A marker needs protecting? Unbury on it to engage anyone that comes near. An assasinate or vendetta need that touch extra damage hit em with a double focus miner, a tech piece you don't like? They can't protect it, if you can secure activation control (which mah can) you can score early next turn (unbury, next turn interact, concentrate, charge.) Along with it granting partial refund over the course of the game

[Jinn]

6 hours ago, FredSpaghett said:

Hello! 

I played my first game with Mah, and got very dissapointed with the soulstone miner. I played vs. Misaki as always, and lost as usual.  

 

In non-Title Mah it also gets hit by the Hazardous it creates when it declares the Miner's Tunnel trigger.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Soulstone miners can be really good in matchups where they have the maneuverability advantage (which I suspect is not the Misaki matchup). They also probably don't line up well against some of the things she has access to...

Where they do excel is when your maneuverability can really abuse the game, IMO. This can include:

• When your opponent has pieces that don't like being hit twice by a soulstone miner (stuff with triggers, stuff the dies easily, etc).
• When you can score a point over two turns (for instance, symbols of authority, your opponent has to cover a lot of areas to deny it).
• When the miners take longer to kill than is worth it for your opponent (if the opponent has a lot of min 2, it can take a surprising amount of resources to take down a well-positioned miner).

I've only faced them a few times though.

[fire5tone]

28 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 

• When your opponent has pieces that don't like being hit twice by a soulstone miner (stuff with triggers, stuff the dies easily, etc).

bear in mind that non title mah has pass tokens and ill omens along with a focus pulse, so its fairly trivial to obtain activation control along with getting a focus 2 miner, if you do it late in the turn you can effectively look at a very big and important model and do a double focus chomp chomp, then next turn chomp chomp bury

compounded by the fact that having a buried miner could be an effective +1 to just about any engagement your opponent might be looking to take 
its not just mah your attacking its mah potentially + a miner
or 2 bushwhacks + a miner
or neither and you decide to do something else, ive had it force my opponent change up what he was going for just because of its existence before, and for its cost, that can be a tad harsh

its almost like some guy was poorly describin misaki with what this thing should do before ending it off with "but its a cheap minion"

[Plaag]

9 hours ago, FredSpaghett said:

Hello! 

I played my first game with Mah, and got very dissapointed with the soulstone miner. I played vs. Misaki as always, and lost as usual. 

The fact that it cant be used for any scheme or strat the same turn that it unburies makes me find it completely useless. 

It doesn't survive catch and release.

Its plans gets revealed and ruined when going for outflank, same goes for turf war. 

Am I missing something?

Who thinks this model is a good scheme runner and what do you use it for?

Thanks in advance! 

 

miner is still super good-just wait for some open enemy schemerunner to kill or schemes like outflank, breakthrough-unbury when noone can catch you

[Plaag]

i dont know your schemepool, but try this

New Mah Tucket Crew (Bayou)
Size: 50 - Pool: 4
Leader:
  Mah Tucket
    Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit
Totem(s):
  The Little Lass
Hires:
  Big Brain Brin
  Soulstone Miner
  Gautraeux Bokor
  Lucky Emissary
    Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit
  Mancha Roja
 

your main upgrade-gremlin coat-misaki deals most of dmv from charge atack; so emissary destroy shadow, scemerun; bokor-heal and gives cards; miner-kills opp schemerunner/destroy shadow; brin-gives too much impact; mancha-just very good and independent model, who can destroy markers too, also even with 2 positives to dmg-he have htw+stone-puts misaki on negative, with juggernaut can heal himself

[FredSpaghett]

We are playing 35ss and this is the setup for our next game.

Any tips for list and schemes, playstyle etc. ? 

 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, FredSpaghett said:

We are playing 35ss and this is the setup for our next game.

Any tips for list and schemes, playstyle etc. ? 

 

New Mah Tucket Crew (Bayou)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Mah Tucket
    Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit
Totem(s):
  The Little Lass
Hires:
  Test Subject
  Test Subject 2
  Test Subject 3
  Survivor
  Survivor 2
  Survivor 3
try this-just run and score

[FredSpaghett]

Perhaps i Should mention, i have access to these models:

Mah core box 

Zipp core box

Lucky emissary

Mancha Roja

First mate

BBB

Test subjects

Roosters

Mech pork

Burt jebsen

Gracie 

Merris

Piglets 

Sparks

Survivors 

 

[FredSpaghett]

1 hour ago, Plaag said:

New Mah Tucket Crew (Bayou)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Mah Tucket
    Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit
Totem(s):
  The Little Lass
Hires:
  Test Subject
  Test Subject 2
  Test Subject 3
  Survivor
  Survivor 2
  Survivor 3
try this-just run and score

What schemes would you prefer?

What is realistic while doing Break the Line. 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, FredSpaghett said:

What schemes would you prefer?

What is realistic while doing Break the Line. 

asassinate against misaki is a dead scheme

i prefer let them bleed and bait/spread

[FredSpaghett]

15 minutes ago, Plaag said:

asassinate against misaki is a dead scheme

i prefer let them bleed and bait/spread

With that same list as you mentioned? 

Aint bleed too hard with small models like that? 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, FredSpaghett said:

With that same list as you mentioned? 

Aint bleed too hard with small models like that? 

try 

[SEV]

I think it's a fine Zip pool as well. 

Break the line is AP intensive, especially at 35ss. I would privilege low ap scheme. Unfortunately Plaag is right and assassinate is unrealistic against Misaki.

Zip is good at scoring B&S. Let them bleed should be doable as well.

First mate

Skeeter

Skeeter

Merris

3ss (or 1ss and 12 cup on the Captain).

[Adran]

21 minutes ago, FredSpaghett said:

With that same list as you mentioned? 

Aint bleed too hard with small models like that? 

I would assume Mah was doing a lot of the making things bleed. 

Although I would be more cautious about choosing the scheme if my opponent has healing in the list. 

[FredSpaghett]

10 minutes ago, Adran said:

I would assume Mah was doing a lot of the making things bleed. 

Although I would be more cautious about choosing the scheme if my opponent has healing in the list. 

Well he has Ototo

[Adran]

Just now, FredSpaghett said:

Well he has Ototo

Self healing, even on one of the likely 2 most expensive models is probably not enough to stop me going for it, although I would probably try and get the other model down to half wounds first, then get Ototo low enough (ideally after he had activated) to score it. I'd probably try and score the reveal on turn 4, as I don't really want to power Ototos grit for longer than I have to. 

And whilst he can potentially heal 4 on the last turn to get back to max (not enough if you got him to half health on turn 4), the chances are that you will have had a chance to hurt everything else. 

[SEV]

20 minutes ago, Adran said:

I would assume Mah was doing a lot of the making things bleed. 

Although I would be more cautious about choosing the scheme if my opponent has healing in the list. 

Test subjects are surprisingly good at making things bleed. Scamper + stamped + shock therapy can generate a surprising amount of ping damage. You can also spam gun attacks with your survivors.

 

[SEV]

14 minutes ago, FredSpaghett said:

Well he has Ototo

Ototo is ok for let them bleed. You should find a spot to drop him below half after he has activated.

Shang is annoying though. Kill it or make sure it won't be able to twarth your scheme (his healing action is only 6").

I would be surprised if your oponent brings an other healer since you don't have much space for support in a 35ss crew. If he does, just take an other scheme.

[Adran]

1 minute ago, SEV said:

Test subjects are surprisingly good at making things bleed. Scamper + stamped + shock therapy can generate a surprising amount of ping damage. You can also spam gun attacks with your survivors.

 

Sorry I wasn't clear.

Yes the list has a lot of ping damage which is great at the end game requirements. I assumed the OP wasn't sure how they would deal enough damage to the two most expensive models to score the reveal section, which, if I were playing this, is the task I would get Mah to look at. Although the ranged damage potential is high enough that you can probably lower a model to half wounds fairly easily. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another technique for getting Let Them Bleed against Ototo is to just kill Ototo and  then get Let Them Bleed on the next two models.

If they manage to stop you killing Ototo, you may accidentally get Let Them Bleed!

[Adran]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:30 PM, FredSpaghett said:

Hello! 

I played my first game with Mah, and got very dissapointed with the soulstone miner. I played vs. Misaki as always, and lost as usual. 

The fact that it cant be used for any scheme or strat the same turn that it unburies makes me find it completely useless. 

It doesn't survive catch and release.

Its plans gets revealed and ruined when going for outflank, same goes for turf war. 

Am I missing something?

Who thinks this model is a good scheme runner and what do you use it for?

Thanks in advance! 

 

Schemes like Break though and plant evidence are probably its bread and butter, Getting scheme markers behind the enemy lines .Whilst it now takes some time to get it dropping schemes, the fact it can get to almost anywhere on the table to drop a scheme for turn 3 makes it hard to stop for a lot of crews. Misaki has the mobility that she can probably stop it if she wants, but for a lot of crews you have to try and Guard areas that the soul stone miner could pop up to score, and that takes models away from places where they could score.  

It can also be used as a counter schemer, its able to pop up and charge most scheme runners and has a fairly decent chance to hurt them if they normally rely on their mobility for protection. 

[dannydb]

Yer there nifty little assassins I find to deal with models that rely on mobility and tricks to survive, focus turn 1, focus and Bury turn 2 and then turn 3 you have a little focused up model able to get around a far amount of defensive tech and kill something ready to double walk and drop a scheme turn 5