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Arcanists Burns: How'd we do?


Jordon

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For me, I'm less about competitive viability. I'm more interested in finding new and exciting ways to play my favourite masters. Ascetics, mechanics and crew altering are all things that I hold in high regard when thinking of these new titles.

Best:

Rasputina: I think it goes without saying that she's gotten the biggest boost with her new title. Not only does it completely change how she interacts with the game, but it also changes up her hiring priorities. The new Kaltgeist are a huge shot in the arm that really elevates both versions of Raspy.  My only real issue with this title is just how much better it is than OG Raspy, which continues to lag behind the curve. Look wise, I'm not as convinced, she looks rather plain compared to her OG version.

Worst: 

Colette: It hurts to say it but I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed with Colette. I don't feel like she really gains much from her title. She still acts fairly independent of her own keyword and doesn't really offer any new hiring opportunities. Her mechanic feel undercooked and complicated and likely to cause many problems. I just don't see the draw over her OG version. I also feel like this new model doesn't ascetically fit with the rest of the crew and I'm not a big fan of the new look. 

 

The Rest:

Marcus: I really like the new mutation sharing mechanic and feel like it ties in much stronger with adaptive evolution. Being actively encouraged and rewarded for passing around mutations is a great change. Marcus himself is a beast (pun intended) and likely going to greedily covet as many mutations as possible, turning him into a killing machine. Crew wise, not much has changed, which it probably the worst thing I can say about this title. Look wise, I'm totally sold.

Sandeep: I'm still trying to process his card but I am intrigued. He himself gaining the elemental keyword is pretty interesting and opens up a lot of new possibilities. I do wish there was a bit more of a focus on the academic side as I feel like this and the original are still primarily elemental focused. Loosing out on summoning does likely change up his hiring priorities but I see myself reaching for the same models. Look wise, it's meh. Not much of a change really. 

Ironsides: Another big win, likely rivalling Raspy in my opinion. A complete change of mechanics, hiring priorities and scheme options. Going from a fighter/tank to a summoner/schemer is a complete 180. Her theme and mechanics seem very well aligned and I can see Ironsides being a real powerhouse for this faction. I don't really have anything bad to say about new Ironsides. While I like the boxer look better, this new art does seem fitting. 

Mei: She's gone from a card hungry beater to a crew enabler. I can see her open up her hiring priorities greatly with this new title. Ride the Rails feels like it'll just work better in this crew. I think it's debatable on whether this version is just better, which is not exactly a good thing. I also feel like she's very similar to OG Hoff. She does have her own things going on but largely I feel like she's doing a lot of the same things as him. I find her new look kind of boring, lacking even the personality of the steam fitter sculpts. 

Hoff: Okay so potentially broken marker shenanigans aside. I'm more intrigued by this version of Hoff. I prefer new Mei to OG Hoff and I feel like this version has a bit more interesting things going on. His gameplay is less constrained and you can take him in a few directions now. I'm not sure how much his hiring priorities changes with this new version but I'm thinking this version will certainly favour some models over others. Love his new look. 

Kaeris: She seems powerful but I'm still on the fence on how I feel about her. I don't really like how all discussion seems to revolve around her scorching radiance. I like the idea of it, but not the execution. It just opens itself up to bad experiences (on either end) and forces you to play her in one very specific way. I do like the mobility and her blazing a path right through the enemy line. Its a nice contrast from her OG version. I think both have their strengths/weaknesses. Look wise, I like how she's gone completely unhinged. 

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So, I'm not competitive. In the OG-Masters my most favourite to least (based on a mix of fun, cool and powerful) was as follows (and this does impact my view on titles, the new titles each directly compare to the OG versions and the more I like the OG-Master the tougher time the title has to seize my attention); (1) Colette (2) Hoffman (3) Kaeris (4) Rasputina (5) Ironsides (6) Marcus (7) Sandeep & (8) Mei. 

Thus my Arcanist Burns summary, from most anticipated/favourite title, to my least interested/excited about:

Great

  1. Mei, love this title, seems like it will be great fun (question open to how strong she plays, I also love Mah so this is an auto buy)
  2. Rasputina, ups her power, gives her more diverse play, excellent new minions (question about what they do for the old Frozen Heart models and OG-Raspy, which outside Silent One and Beast of December are largely disappointing, even with summoning, don't mind Euripides so auto buy)
  3. Ironsides, again loving this, I think this could be the best single master option in Arcanist, both versions are strong, they play differently, great (question on Drudge durability and power, not huge on Anya will likely get still)

The OK

  1. Sandeep, don't mind this title, really intrigued by Four Winds Golem (biggest downside here is no Academic love and I don't like Shenlong, this is my first might buy)
  2. Marcus, I love brawl and bash Marcus, but still underwhelmed by his crew, specially Molemen (the lesser Beasts really need love, biggest hit is that I really dislike Lord Cooper, might buy)
  3. Kaeris, so she seems to be a beast, I'm actually a bit worried about the negative play of her potential massive alpha inferno, really need to see whether her power is locked up in this or if its a storm in a tea cup and she's good without just super combusting enemies (generally I like the Wildfire crew so even though I dislike Reva I have purchased this at GenCon, helps that I like Deacon and he is Arcanist)

The disappointment (so unsurprising that my disappointments were my two favourite OG-Masters, high bar to meet)

  1. Hoffman, I actually like the idea but his Pylon mechanic is as troublesome as hell, it could lead to terrain-marker trap play which sucks, and equally with the Pylons being destroyed he is hugely handicapped, looks like a tentative on-table problem (I have purchased this at GenCon, really want to see if the title is as functionally troublesome as it has been theoretically, I love the Hoffman crew it is fun and independently powerful, don't mind the Von Schill crew, that also helped my decision)
  2. And here she is, sadly from first to worst - Colette, I just am so disappointed, the Performer crew was already a bit of a take these few all-stars and go, and Smuggler does nothing at all to change this, her card is troublesome, her play seems more or less the same as OG-Colette game state wise, I was simply hoping for something really mixing it up and I got what felt like a artificial sweetener version of sugary Colette goodness, Smuggler adds nothing I like (now I do like Dorian a lot and the Pandora title I love and Woe was already a crew I occasionally slummed into, so despite this its an auto buy box but for Pandora Tyrant-Torn - which feels wrong)

Ironically two of my 100% favourite OG-Master and title-Master combinations I will be getting by default; I love Mah and Mecha-Mah and also Pandora and Tyrant-Torn and think these two represent the best of what Malifaux Burns can offer (I also love the Lucius title but loath Nexus so passing on this, loved the Ophelia and Perdita titles and like both masters OG, so picked this box up). Finally Raspy has convinced me to check out Euripides, I'd been on the fence with this crew but love Abominable and Old One Eye looks intriguing + the Kaltgeist is amazing (please Wyrd give OG-Raspy and her older crew models a little love, that could make Raspy compete with Ironsides as the best and most rounded single master original/title combo).   

So based on the above my Arcanist Master tier based on OG and title is best to worst:

  1. Rasputina/Abominable
  2. Ironsides/President Toni
  3. A knot here of several close calls, I'll loosely say [a] Mei/Foreman [b] Colette/Smuggler [c] Hoffman/Inventor then [d] Kaeris/Phoenix
  4. Then pulling up the rear as jointly a little mediocre on both OG and title, loosely, [a] Marcus/Alpha [b] Sandeep/Font of Magic

So if the primary goal was to shake my Arcanist meta choices up, objective achieved.   

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I definitely agree. I can't really see anything too far away from my thoughts. Lesser minions still ignored, nothing really fixed about that. We still have strong options. 

Raspy obviously is a major win, and Raspy1 is in desperate need of fixing or never seeing play.

Ironsides, what I love the most now is the mind game. Which one am I bringing? Bring it tar pit or the scheme marker nuke master? Both want different responses. 

The others I have nothing else to really add.  

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I agree that the title winners, taking winner as going from weak(er) to stronger kit/crew, are probably (1) Rasputina (her title appears to have legitimate power, unlike her OG version which struggles) (2) Marcus (I think the title is a shade stronger, certainly simpler and love the smash face) and (3) Mei (because I think this title is more reliable than the OG version).

But in terms of actual master power (not playability of a single iteration or cool/fun factor), I think, accounting for the power of both the OG and title crews, then:

  1. Hoffman - OG Hoff mecha-armour bubble is very solid (literally) and the new version has the Pylon blocking ability and the nasty irreducible damage, meanwhile the crew is still tough but now less reliant on the bubble. Simply put you can win with either Hoffman and the OG/title choice only makes them stronger.
  2. Ironsides - her OG version is reliable and solid, her title is also pretty damn good. So while the pairing is not Hoffman powerful its certainly up there.
  3. Kaeris - so again OG Kaeris is a solid, resilient, mobile scheming crew that can kill, great. The title Kaeris is less about mobility but the uncapped damage spiking frankly verges on broken. The reason she's here is because OG Kaeris has better in faction options for a lot of wqhat she does best and title Kaeris, while hideously lethal, is a obvious and thus inflexible move, and this is the heart of her power, and theory-crafting does demonstrate it can probably be avoided (with varying difficulty).
  4. Sandeep - OG Sandeep is a summoner, they are always (even after nerf) strong and flexible. Title Sandeep is still solid, with some very powerful and flexible options. Basically gets here because both crews are very solid, with flexibility, so cool.
  5. Marcus - While I think the OG version is good it is a little Rube-Goldberg machine and sometimes pulls against itself with limited (obvious) and vulnerable killing pieces and limited (obvious) quite expensive schemers, also Marcus is kinda underwhelming in and of himself, still in the right hands its a solid crew. Title Marcus is a beast, literally, and basically directly addresses the underwhelming Marcus issue of the OG, but the upgrade mechanic is even more difficult to operate perfectly, in good hands this crew is going to crush noobs but against superior players it could go badly fast.
  6. Colette - So the OG Colette was amazing pre-nerf and is still likely one of the best scheming crews post-nerf, she is great, and while her crew is limited it is versatile and strong with the Enforcer and Henchmen options. However, title Colette, while she may have some very good options doesn't really bring anything much that screams different in terms of crew/scheme pool/opponent options, it remains to be seen exactly which Colette is stronger, but it appears likely that both versions will do well in similar type games and poorly in similar games. The viable crew across both Colette's remains basically identical.
  7. Mei - Basically OG Mei does a lot of what Hoffman does (mecha-armour) and some of what Colette/Kaeris does (super-mobile) and does both generally markedly worse, she is a jack-of-all-trades master but is really to weak to be a reliable single crew into any pool pick. OG-Mei herself is a superb scalpel to kill mid-range models but she cannot reliably take down solid beaters and masters and she over extends very easily, she simply will rarely turn a game, and her crew she may need to frequently. Now I think title Mei is better and more reliable, but she is also a bubble crew with a mobility schtick, so two of her primary abilities, Ride the Rails for superb weird vectors and Safety Inspection in the 8" bubble pull directly against each other. Played carefully either Mei is very good into most game situations, but I think they are both among the least forgiving crews in Arcanists, because this is across both OG and title the Foundry is near the bottom.
  8. Rasputina - So the biggest winner is still in the basement I think, simply because she is the biggest winner. OG Rasputina is a weak option, her crew is limited, she is awkward to play while her schtick is obvious and well known and so fairly easy to neutralise, the OG Raspy is (at the moment) a lead weight to her pairing, likely even with multiple Kaltgeist's in every crew she fields. Meanwhile title Rasputina appears to be very good, but, while a huge step forward over OG Raspy, not oppressively powerful, her summoning is great but limited to basically one great (Silent One) and one good (Hoarcat) model, with the others being summon traps in most cases, the Ice Pillars are as solid (in a different way) here as with OG Raspy (with the difference that OG brings little else) and still can cause as many issues for the Raspy crew as the opposition. Overall title Raspy is a great leap upwards but sadly from the depth of the pit that OG Raspy was in that means the pairing is basically a non-starter, I can't see OG being a realistic choice over title in many games at all, so title Raspy gets 8th slot in the pairing power rankings largely off her own efforts.

So thoughts?

I'm very confident I got positions 1 & 2 correct. But I'm less sure on the 3-7 block where I could happily switch certain pairings up or down one (or maybe even two) positions. Then we get to the cellar dwelling Frozen Heart, I think that is correct, but I am hoping that a errata will explode that soon, the large gap between OG and title Raspy really demonstrates the necessity. In every other crew I think the original and titles are reasonably close in power, in most cases playing differently rather than being a radical power shift. I will also say in fairness, the closeness of the Hoffman crews in power and how oppressively powerful title Hoffman looks to be means that is we see an Arcanist nerf I think it needs to be here, and I think the title is the problem and needs to be constrained. I also think that title Kaeris needs to be slightly or sideways nerfed, her Scorching Radiance needs to be limited (ideally damage capped) and maybe give her a tiny buff (say if you end the Burning condition on Kaeris then Scorching Radiance detonates on the model which ended the condition - a backdraft effect, or some other slight buff), but to be honest if you capped Scorching Radiance at dam 4-5 that would still leave it as fearful, but not make it ridiculous. Finally I renew my eternal refrain, buff the Moleman - end anti-Moleman discrimination.            

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I largely agree with this power assessment. However I'll be the first to admit I'm not a power gamer so I'm completely open to being wrong. 

I just played a game with OG Raspy today and got schooled so I can see why she's bottom of the barrel even after this new shiny title. It's obviously people will be choosing title Raspy unless Raspy1 gets some kind of buff. Acolytes are still pretty bad even as a summon, but as hire in Raspy1, they're downright terrible. 

I'm a bit shaky on where Sandeep might land power wise. I'm still unsure how I feel about the wind golem but I can see the scheming potential it has. Sandeep2 seems like he's going to take a while to really crack. I can see him being a sleeper hit once things have started to settle. 

As for Hoff and Kaeris. We'll see if they get nerfed in any way. I'm less concerned about Kaeris (even though I really despise the mechanic) but I can see Hoff trapping models with immovable terrain as a serious problem. Even if they do receive changes, I still see both of them in the top half of the power curve for Arcanists. 

Colette I'm also a bit uncertain. With the recent nerf and an awkward, somewhat lacklustre title. I see her more towards the bottom. I think these new titles have really opened up the options of a bunch of masters. With her new title not really changing much, I feel like she's dropped a few spots. Still quite viable but lacking dimension. 

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Just thinking about the new models and what they bring. Are there any that you'd consider auto includes? If so for which version?

Again I think Raspy is the clear winner here as well. Kaltgeist really unlock both versions of Raspy and I'm honestly considering hiring all three of them in either version (well mostly Raspy2 because I doubt I'll be running Raspy1 anymore). 

I also think that Deacon is a very solid include for either version of Kaeris. Offensive condition removal was a bad time for Kaeris (especially the golem). I do think he's probably a little more geared for Kaeris2 as she gives him the suit for his pyre teleport ability. I'm not sure if he's an auto include though (which is actually a good thing). I do think he's very solid though. 

Dorian is okay. I feel like he's a lot more niche than Deacon but still a decent include. I think he's got some interesting tricks but nothing that really shakes up the keyword in the same way as either of the above options. Colette doesn't really need to stick to keyword so I think he's going to have tougher competition comparatively to most. 

Wind Golem is still a mystery to me. I like that he brings something more unique than the other golems but I'm a bit worried about its fragility for that cost. I don't think your hiring it for Sandeep1 and honestly I don't think your summoning it either (18ss for 10ss is not the best trade). I think it had more play with Sandeep2 where you can steal it's abilities via academics. 

I'm liking the look of the Rock Hopper more and more. There is a LOT of marker removal with these new titles and this lets you keep those key markers on the table. It also packs quite the punch for its cost. Salvage Site is pretty niche but could be big in the right matchup (nice triggers too). I think it's a good hire for either version of Mei but obviously will work a bit better in Mei2 because how much better she is at supporting her crew. 

Empyrean Eagle finally gives Marcus a decent low cost hire and schemer. It's leagues better than molemen (not that it's a high bar to hit). Honestly I think Marcus was sorely missing that role so this is a great include for either version. I do think Marcus1 can probably get a bit more from them but adaptive evolution makes them a solid include for Marcus2 as well. Maybe not an auto include

Metallurgist seems great for either version. I assume you still get access to the equipment regardless of the list. So load him up with a rocket and boss around some robots. Enchanted Steel seems like a pretty big deal against a lot of matchups. 

Drudge is pretty impressive for a 2ss model but really seems tailored for Toni2. I'm not sure how often I'd be hiring one of these given how easy they die. A great model but I don't really see them as anything other than a summon. 

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3 hours ago, Jordon said:

Again I think Raspy is the clear winner here as well. Kaltgeist really unlock both versions of Raspy and I'm honestly considering hiring all three of them in either version (well mostly Raspy2 because I doubt I'll be running Raspy1 anymore). 

 

3 hours ago, Jordon said:

Empyrean Eagle finally gives Marcus a decent low cost hire and schemer. It's leagues better than molemen (not that it's a high bar to hit). Honestly I think Marcus was sorely missing that role so this is a great include for either version. I do think Marcus1 can probably get a bit more from them but adaptive evolution makes them a solid include for Marcus2 as well. Maybe not an auto include

Agreed on these two models. They will see a lot of playing time across both OG and title versions of their respective keywords, partly this is because they are good models that appear to fill a niche, but also partly because the poor options in both keywords model selection means its less a niche than a yawning gulf. The value of these models is directly related to the weaknesses which exist in the keywords, the frequency they are taken will reflect that. At least until an errata changes things in some way.

3 hours ago, Jordon said:

Drudge is pretty impressive for a 2ss model but really seems tailored for Toni2. I'm not sure how often I'd be hiring one of these given how easy they die. A great model but I don't really see them as anything other than a summon. 

Yes. It really is a designed summons. The fact that OG-Ironsides plays in a close-in brawlers bubble by design means that the Drudge just won't have the resilience to survive in the cauldron and they are insignificant so worthless as a scheme runner on the periphery. But it is not like Ironsides lacks for OK hires, she doesn't need the Drudge so it has a comfortable place as a summons.

4 hours ago, Jordon said:

I also think that Deacon is a very solid include for either version of Kaeris. Offensive condition removal was a bad time for Kaeris (especially the golem). I do think he's probably a little more geared for Kaeris2 as she gives him the suit for his pyre teleport ability. I'm not sure if he's an auto include though (which is actually a good thing). I do think he's very solid though. 

 

4 hours ago, Jordon said:

I'm liking the look of the Rock Hopper more and more. There is a LOT of marker removal with these new titles and this lets you keep those key markers on the table. It also packs quite the punch for its cost. Salvage Site is pretty niche but could be big in the right matchup (nice triggers too). I think it's a good hire for either version of Mei but obviously will work a bit better in Mei2 because how much better she is at supporting her crew. 

Both these models have excellent roles in crews which rely on conditions (Kaeris) or markers (Mei) in prolonging and protecting these game resources for their respective keywords. In a game where the number, ease and importance of marker/condition removal is only increasing these models are likely very high priority, if not auto includes, in their keywords (both OG and title) just to prevent this significant risk of counter-play. Both models are also OK in and of themselves as well.

4 hours ago, Jordon said:

Dorian is okay. I feel like he's a lot more niche than Deacon but still a decent include. I think he's got some interesting tricks but nothing that really shakes up the keyword in the same way as either of the above options. Colette doesn't really need to stick to keyword so I think he's going to have tougher competition comparatively to most. 

Dorian has the same problem, in a different way, as Smuggler Colette; what does he bring that the Performer keyword needs and does not have? The answer is basically not much. He is a mid-cost scheme and distraction enforcer model with a few tricks, nearly the entire Performer keyword can do these things and Dorian's tricks are not particularly remarkable. I can't see a reason not to take him, he is OK for cost, but I also can't see a reason to take him, he doesn't do anything the keyword really needs and doesn't already have options to do. As meh as the Smuggler Colette title was.

4 hours ago, Jordon said:

Metallurgist seems great for either version. I assume you still get access to the equipment regardless of the list. So load him up with a rocket and boss around some robots. Enchanted Steel seems like a pretty big deal against a lot of matchups. 

He's pretty cheap, reasonably resilient and brings some ranged protection, small movement and a command option to the keyword. Can't see many games where he wouldn't be a little useful and at his cost can't see a reason why he's not an efficient crew selection.

4 hours ago, Jordon said:

Wind Golem is still a mystery to me. I like that he brings something more unique than the other golems but I'm a bit worried about its fragility for that cost. I don't think your hiring it for Sandeep1 and honestly I don't think your summoning it either (18ss for 10ss is not the best trade). I think it had more play with Sandeep2 where you can steal it's abilities via academics. 

OK, the most puzzling model is last. The other Golem's are all a variety of beater-tank hybrid, big, tough and they hit hard - which you prefer depends on your preferences and the specific game. The Wind Golem is not that, it has OK damage but for cost it is not a beater, it has good potential survivability but this is a more tricky resilience, based not on wounds and armour but on mobility and ranged defences. What it brings is a large, hard hitting and tough highly mobile model, there are not many models with this damage track and endurance which is a fast, it is possibly one of the only models I could see troubling the First Mate for instance. But how many games does this keyword need a high cost scheme/anti-scheme model? I can see this as a solid selection, particularly against certain opposition who bring their own excellent scheme/anti-scheme models. But in the majority of the games I think grabbing a Wind Gamin gets you your scheme for less cost, and two Wind Gamin can do double the scheming, sure they may dies easier but they are likely fast and resilient enough still to get the essential job done either better (with multiple) or cheaper (with one).    

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21 hours ago, Jordon said:

However I'll be the first to admit I'm not a power gamer so I'm completely open to being wrong. 

Also, this.

I haven't gone to an event for the entirety of 3E, I first don't do this often anyway, its not my thing, second live in Sydney, Australia, where to be honest the community is small and what there is is insular, and third Covid, curse thee.

But I am an experienced enough gamer to be able to theorise and while I'm certain the on the table experience will reveal some surprises and I'm very sure different meta's will have different experiences I do think the basic overview we've made is largely valid.

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1 hour ago, goblyn13 said:

So having got my copy of Halifax Burns today, is anyone else a little disappointed that their were no hints as to the contents of an Arcanists Starter box (In theory every faction is getting one)? 

One hint is the Neverborn versatiles. Around the same time as Klaus was previewed for through the breach we saw :

229EBB61-3C44-4C0F-8417-2537B2BBA736.thumb.png.bba194d4760c866940ba1be551b9fc8b.png

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I don't think this is a new Arcanist model, but did anyone identify the model chillin at the back at Gencon? It kind of looks like Lazarus . . . but it (admittedly it is hard to tell) looks like it is in the same paler plastic as the botanists in front of it (certainly looks lighter than the hard plastic model just sneaking in to the right of frame). The starter box models are much lighter as well and outcasts (where you would expect lazarus to be) already have theirs. So assuming it isn't Lazarus and is a started model, would either be Guild or Arcanists out of what is left.

Mystery Model.png

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My two cents...

1. Raspy

2. Mei Feng

3. Marcus

4. Kaeris

5. Sandeep

6. Hoffman

7. Ironsides

8. Colette

New Raspy is excellent, thank god for playable December... it makes her bad minions slightly less bad since you don't need to hire them and can summon as per gamestate, and frees up some soulstones for better hiring decisions. Also Ice Dancers are better working with Kaldergeists. Not sure I'd hire them still, though, but they can net you a free non flip pillar. And finally! Grim Feast will be usable! Let's be clear she still needs some form of corpse creation outside the Rider... but this is a start. Nothing but good things to say about her new title, I love it, very excited.

Love the new Mei Feng. Love it! If it wasn't for my sheer joy of being able to feel competitive with December, she'd be my number 1 for sure. The Foundry crew are fragile, and deal tons of damage. Putting a master able to support them behind that is fantastic. I think both versions will be fun, and both versions have their pros and cons. Definitely the one in Arcanist that I think got the best result from their title.

(Side note: give old Mei Feng a defensive trigger she can Press the Advantage/Constant Motion with... it would be fun!)

I'm of the opinion Alpha Marcus is much better than old Marcus- my partner plays him and thinks both him and the new Eagles are fantastic. He joked he'd take two every game with their ability to access positive flips for both attack and damage relatively easily. The ability to bounce upgrades makes Chimera a buddy squad type of field, and makes Myranda a lot more useful as Myranda as opposed to 'Cerberus Sabertooth in waiting'. Plus Chimera Strike is awesome (min 4!), and he will be an excellent tank with the permanent cover vs guns and the difficulty of things to charge him/around him. He'll bring a threatening DPS melee master to Arcanists which I'm really excited for.

I'll never say a bad word about my main Kaeris, but I think I prefer the original one as much as I'm loving having MV 7 back from 2E. That said, choosing a suit freely was awesome when I played a game with it (as an aside Euri's Heptomancy feels so bad. It feels so bad to play against. Wow). I think both have plays and I'm interested in trying it out more. It does feel like it makes the Golem a must hire since it's the only Flameborn that can keep up with her though through Draw Off Flame. Everyone's talking about Scorching Radiance being busted but any kind of pushes, pulls, lures or moves can just shut that down to the point I'd be concerned bringing that into a crew with any sort of it as it forces a late activation. Maybe bringing in Firestarter for Light Under Their Feet might circumvent that a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's counterplay, but it feels like a very swingy ability. I feel like enough has been said on it- I like her back of card a lot! Melting Point is awesome and I like Eruption- both felt really good to play. Anyway, like I said, I think I prefer original but I've only played one game of new Kaeris so will need more to be able to fully comment.

I don't play Sandeep yet, but honestly think 5's a bit rough. I think 3-5 are all close in rank and I don't think he's bad at all. On the contrary new Sandeep looks great, and I really like his Demise and the play with Academics now. I think both titles have their positives and different pools you'd like them in.

Not sold on Hoff. The pylons feel fiddly and difficult to put down for the effort, given they're destructible and with the upswing of marker removal (seriously, there's so much more now- discussion for another time, but I'm worried about crews that HAVE to play around markers instead of it being optional). But it's still Hoff. Probably still good.

*EDIT: pointed out they're not destructible, was going off memory and mixed it up with the Decoys. His was the only card I didn't reread before posting but I should've, cause when I reread it I liked it a lot more. I'm worried, given they're not removable, could make it sort of a NPE for crews who don't bring marker removal. It's a fine line to walk. Looking forward to seeing it on the table! I think I'll enjoy playing it more than playing against it.

I honestly don't like new Ironsides much at all. She's supporting and charging up her crew, sure, but who in the M&SU keyword is worth charging up aside from Howard? Sure, maybe Captain, but the entire keyword & it's best models are about supporting Ironsides. I can see some play with Swarms and loyal follower, sure, but... I'm kind of underwhelmed. When she starts losing models her adrenaline generation will get weaker AND is needing in keyword stuff (not just friendlies). I don't mind summoning drudges but I would've liked them to have a benefit from them dying (like draw a card ala rats) since I don't think they'll stick around that long if there's any shockwaves or blasts. I think old Ironsides is just plain better.

Everyone else seems really keen on her- so what am I missing? She's a support master with very few worthwhile models to beef up. If it was a very schemey pool I'd just take another master, frankly. I haven't put her on the table and I'd love to be wrong.

Don't like new Colette, I think it's not only worse power wise and easier to kill but also, and most importantly, less fun than original. Couldn't see myself taking it. No other comment really needed here.

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14 minutes ago, Kaeris_Main said:

Not sold on Hoff. The pylons feel fiddly and difficult to put down for the effort, given they're destructible and with the upswing of marker removal (seriously, there's so much more now- discussion for another time, but I'm worried about crews that HAVE to play around markers instead of it being optional). But it's still Hoff. Probably still good.

Just a note, but Hoffman's pylons aren't destructible. Only marker removal can remove them, I believe?

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3 hours ago, Kaeris_Main said:

Everyone else seems really keen on her- so what am I missing? She's a support master with very few worthwhile models to beef up. If it was a very schemey pool I'd just take another master, frankly. I haven't put her on the table and I'd love to be wrong.

Well for one, she can summon three models with her free action. That's some exceedingly efficient action economy. Those summons unlock unionized and haul around scheme markers which also unlock everyone's grit ability. 

I feel like the big draw with Toni is just how different each title is. One is a board and action control bubble crew, the other is a potent schemer crew that can spread out and spam models. Toni as a complete package (both titles) offers the broadest variety of play styles and she's going to be difficult to counter. I feel pretty confident bringing her in just about any matchup. 

3 hours ago, Kaeris_Main said:

but who in the M&SU keyword is worth charging up aside from Howard?

Gunsmiths with grit are very efficient. Now that they can hunker down next to scheme marker or move up with a drudge taxi, it just opens up their flexibility. Union miners can summon two drudges to gang up on enemy models. Drudges themselves look like pretty decent hitters when paired up as well. Fitzsimmons makes those summons way more tough than they ought to be. 

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6 minutes ago, Jordon said:

I feel like the big draw with Toni is just how different each title is. One is a board and action control bubble crew, the other is a potent schemer crew that can spread out and spam models. Toni as a complete package (both titles) offers the broadest variety of play styles and she's going to be difficult to counter. I feel pretty confident bringing her in just about any matchup.

I'll nod to gunsmiths- I used to play them in 2E with Kaeris and LOVE them, but I always thought 8SS was steep in 3E. I do take one when I play Ironsides but I don't love to have them in melee and prefer using them at range shooting into who Toni's locking down with their free pos negating the friendly fire. I'd hardly take one and run it in for the Loyal Minion trigger if I had a choice.

She can summon 3 with a bonus action, which is great, but I have some fairly big concerns over her adrenaline generation once you reach turns 4 and 5, along with minimal card draw (mostly just her and Amina) and it'll cost half your hand to do that. I feel like using False Claim will generally be a better way of doing that- no cost to Adrenaline. She's limited in OOK and Versatile she can bring too (even if I prefer playing in keyword it's worth pointing out). That said her bonus action IS awesome for the pseudo obey, best thing on the card for me.

I don't know. I still don't like it much but I quoted this part because you made me realise why I don't. I don't like playing swarm and spam crews. It makes Ironsides more flexible into crews that ignore def triggers/10T, but I'm still not sold. I do now understand why people like it though RE total switch up of playstyle.

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3 hours ago, Kaeris_Main said:

but I have some fairly big concerns over her adrenaline generation once you reach turns 4 and 5

Mouse's bonus action gives 2 Adrenaline to Toni if she's near a scheme marker. I've only tried her once, but I found I was getting about 5 Adrenaline per turn and spending 2-3 on Will of the Union. With her generally sitting behind her crew, and having 6/6 Df/Wp with:+flipand pseudo armour, she never felt threatened. When she did take damage from AoE she just used Spark of Revolution to AoE heal her crew and herself.

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to my mind-arcanists titles are one of the worst among all factions, maybe tt is worst

marcus is pretty strong; colette is super good, but as somebody told-she dont need her keyword at all; hoffman have very big npe potential-pylons are not destractible, even if they want make them not destractible-they should do them not impass with height 0; mei become a support, which is not really good; rasputina have some positive vibrations to play in keyword, but still better to take amina to make golem work, also she have no good atack actions, summon is good, but still no card draw(tools for a job is good, but u need to add some cards in your hand, not only exchange); kaeris still have very bad def for melee fighter, also they didnt balance her dmg with no resist at the end of a turn; toni have some good schemerun potential with bonus, but her other actions are garbage; sandip-didnt keen on him, so even didnt read his card, but new golem is not so bad

also they didnt give our faction tools that we need with new models-card draw, remove any marker, ignoring healing/demise

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On 9/29/2021 at 2:19 AM, Jinn said:

Mouse's bonus action gives 2 Adrenaline to Toni if she's near a scheme marker. I've only tried her once, but I found I was getting about 5 Adrenaline per turn and spending 2-3 on Will of the Union. With her generally sitting behind her crew, and having 6/6 Df/Wp with:+flipand pseudo armour, she never felt threatened. When she did take damage from AoE she just used Spark of Revolution to AoE heal her crew and herself.

That's fair! I usually find myself losing Mouse around T3 since he's a really easy target (especially in Turf), but if he's kept alive I can see him being useful in keeping adrenaline up. Probably easier to keep him alive in new Ironsides if she's hanging back anyway.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 4:13 AM, NoisyAssassin said:

I don't think she needs it, but dang that'd be a fun addition to her card. 

Like it wouldn't need to be GOOD, like... Ignite, or drop a scrap marker, or pick up a scrap to draw a card, or something unique. I just think it'd be cool to be able to push 2' afterwards. I do find she can be a little squishy so it might help. Plus it just seems like a bit of a waste! She's got these cool trigger abilities and no way to trigger them on defense. I agree she doesn't need it but it'd be fun!

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