Pandora, Tyrant-Torn

[Regelridderen]

I really like that Panda got a new attack. Self Loathing was great, but having it on both Candy and Panda was too much - especially facing models like Hinamatsu. I see this more like her version of Glimpse, just with added bonus damage and maybe a random discard. And Candy was the one with the good Self Loathing triggers anyway.

Her Compounding Emotions is insane. Shenlong was bad enough, but this is pure horror in a crew that can exploit conditions.

And allowing her to resummon the Poltergeist allows for a much more reckless aggressive use of it - I quite often had Polty on disruption/scheme duty rather than in the thick of things, because he died to a gentle fart. 

-

I love the idea of giving her Adversary via the wicked doll. They were already great, but in Tyrant Torn, they’ll be amazing. Again an Emissary/Puppet crew seems like a great way to completely ruin an opponents game.

 

[Regelridderen]

I love the Woe crew, but Panda was always the least interesting model, even her Self Loathing was second to Candy’s. Her most aggressive actions were Once Per activation and was easily avoided on key models since they were fixed TNs - I get that emptying your opponents hand is good, but Panda always felt underwhelming.

This Panda is a lot more aggressive, interacts a lot more with other models, and aren’t reliant on the opponent having Min3 beaters etc. And she feels like she has her own role to play. The shenanigans she’ll be playing with conditions will be a lot more versatile. And she will put a lot less strain on your hand. 

[Adran]

6 hours ago, SEV said:

This is a reasonable arguement. I went back to the adversary description and it says that X can be a keyword, a characteristic or a name, but doll specifically said adversary keyword. So I can buy your argument here. I still think that wyrd will need to clarify this quickly.

Not sure what you think needs clarifying? Adversary enemy exists. But since wicked dolls need to name a keyword they can't make adversary enemy. 

[Chris Rivers]

On 9/3/2021 at 6:20 PM, Korrok said:

So wicked dolls can give her adversary (enemy keyword) and force most of the other crew to always be at a - when targeting her. Lol

Only issue I see here is it would force you to activate the doll early to reapply the Adversary condition each turn since it disappears at the end of each turn

[Suitheism]

Hey all, one thing I'm not super good at and am trying to improve is knowing when to take certain masters into certain pools or against certain factions, so when would you see taking this Pandora over current Pandora? I understand taking tyrant torn into turf war is probably not a great idea being a summoner but are there any other reasons you might lean one way or the other?

[Maniacal_cackle]

41 minutes ago, Suitheism said:

Hey all, one thing I'm not super good at and am trying to improve is knowing when to take certain masters into certain pools or against certain factions, so when would you see taking this Pandora over current Pandora? I understand taking tyrant torn into turf war is probably not a great idea being a summoner but are there any other reasons you might lean one way or the other?

For titles, you are likely to have the ability to choose your title after knowing your opponents master.

So there be ~54 different pieces to advice.

The best advice is to just play as many games as you can and get a feel for it, or give examples of things played in your meta and we could try to offer insights.

For instance, Pandora 2 may be a bit weaker into Reva at a guess, because Vincent offers a bit of a threat to the summons.

[muraki]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The best advice is to just play as many games as you can and get a feel for it, or give examples of things played in your meta and we could try to offer insights.

For instance, Pandora 2 may be a bit weaker into Reva at a guess, because Vincent offers a bit of a threat to the summons.

Agree here, this is the best advice, more games will help you decide 'heres what I think is priority 1 for each title which makes it easier for you to day 'oh if I see y across the board I won't enjoy it'

Like as maniacal says, if summons are your #1 reason to bring Pandora2 then anti summons are going to be a bad time.

That said, personally I don't expect every title to be a 'in this pool I x and this pool I y'.  More often than not I'll assume a single title will click and be an 80/20 or a 100/0 split for a player rather than a 50/50.  Pandora could be 50/50 for you, but also don't feel bad if you end up preferring one or the other.

[Trekin]

On 9/3/2021 at 5:37 PM, Azahul said:

Creating overlapping Hazardous Auras with No Shelter Here and something like the Emissary and then double Obeying enemy models to charge around in the hazardous with a summoned Poltergeist putting resist flips on a negative seems ok too. Up to six single damage pops.

If you can summon or walk an Aversion into position then they will also have a TN 13Wp duel or be moved again for more hazardous damage.

[Sprixus]

Real threat is turn 1 fast candy just walking into your team.

[Regelridderen]

3 hours ago, Sprixus said:

Real threat is turn 1 fast candy just walking into your team.

A tried and true tactic of any Neverborn crew is the Glimpse of Candy Bomb. Delivered via rider and/or Nephilim. I always reserve a Stone and a thirteen for it. Whether she’s Fast is inconsequential, just that she gets there. 

[SEV]

10 hours ago, Sprixus said:

Real threat is turn 1 fast candy just walking into your team.

You usually don't need to give her fast... Walk x2 + on your heel on her bonus give you an 18" threat range. But I agree that a fast candy can be a nasty surprise for a cautious oponent (or just in corner deployment) with 23"...

But at 23" Candy will most likely be alone wich is a death sentence for her (she'll be an annoyance for your opponent t2, but she's really unlikely to survive past that). IMO you need a really good strategic reason for the candy bomb gambit... If you do it with support (either a big beater that carries her like Neph or Rider, or Dora1 herself with a 3x walk + box) it's an other story since she's way more likely to survive (and if you get 2 turns of Candy in the middle of your oponent crew, you're really starting to get value from her).

With D2 I don't see the need of a Candy bomb, her playstyle seems way less aggressive (I only had 4 games with her, so I don't pretend to know her in and out).

[Sprixus]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:34 PM, Nathan Sells said:

Adversary (Enemy) is possible, Nellie gives it out. Threaten, however, has "choose a keyword" in its cost, so Wicked Dolls can't give Pandora Adversary (Enemy) only Adversary (Keyword).

This is true, but also there is nothing to stop Pandora giving herself Adversary(enemy). 

Most interesting thing about this Pandora, no terrifying, but also no abilities that require her to be the leader of the crew. 

You could quite easily throw her into a Zoriada crew or something or just use her as a tech piece against master's who love to hand out conditions; either on your crew or their own.

Edit: As pointed out below, she cant target herself

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Sprixus said:

This is true, but also there is nothing to stop Pandora giving herself Adversary(enemy). .

I think the biggest obstacle there would be that she cannot give herself conditions (her bonus action is a pulse, and the range does not include her).

Unless I'm missing something.

[SEV]

Yup... if someone found a way to give her Adversary (Ennemy) please share.

But giving adversary keyword if still strong.

[Plaag]

8 hours ago, SEV said:

Yup... if someone found a way to give her Adversary (Ennemy) please share.

But giving adversary keyword if still strong.

wicked doll? but it seems to give only keyword, but still 3ss

master with luck thief...so balanced

[Adran]

32 minutes ago, Plaag said:

wicked doll? but it seems to give only keyword, but still 3ss

master with luck thief...so balanced

Wicked doll doesn't work. Enemy isn't a keyword. 

[Cranky Old Man]

Is a changeling useful in Pandora? any good actions it could mimic?

[Hawkoon]

12 hours ago, Cranky Old Man said:

Is a changeling useful in Pandora? any good actions it could mimic?

Pandora2 herself doesn't have anything, but you can always do temper tantrum or goodie basket from Candy, scatter from Aversion or telekinesis from Poltergeist. Not really sure it's worth taking ook for those abilities. (with Pandora1 you have Despair's influence which is totally worth it.)

[Korrok]

So I played Dora 2 into nekima 2 the other week and forgot to share my experiences. Used the doll to give her adversary so the nephilim basically wanted nothing to do with hitting her. Summoned sorrows are great mature bait lol. Game was fairly close untill I got nekima, hayreddin, and his changling caught in the mother of all death bubbles. Had hungry land markers down, used no shelter to push the changling up into nekima and hayreddin faces. Candy and a sorrow were within their aura range of all 3 and Dora was within 10. Nekima and hay would basically activate, discard and gain stunned from candy, take a damage from misery, take a damage from leach life, and since Dora saw the damage from misery she would push them 2 in right through both sources of hazardous doing 2 more damage. They melted. 

[extremor]

I quite like Klaus Norwood with Dora 2. his Shielded trigger opens um for a lot of options 1st turn