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Smuggler Colette


dancater

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7 minutes ago, Jordon said:

So what about something like Cage Fighter? Or anything that is "after resolving"? Does a decoy revert back to a marker before taking those kind of damages?

I think it would resolve, if able, against Colette since the token counted as her during the action. Like Cage Fighter has no range or LoS restrictions only that the attacking model used a :meleeattack.

I don't think it really matters when the token reverts back. Since at the time it took the action it was Colette. I can't think of any after resolving abilities off the top of my head that check to see if the model is still in range.

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I don't think the token taking the action uses things like focus and distracted from Colette the smuggler. It's more like you summon a new Colette just for that action. 

We have lots of examples of a model taking an action from a different spot, and they are worded differently. 

So cage fighter, black blood etc may damage the marker. But it then reverts to a marker and the damage disappears. 

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I disagree. It counts as Colette. Not a new model like Colette. 

It's  "as though it were this model" not "as though it were a model with this model's stats" 

 

Even if we ignore the token part, I think this is the first time we've had one thing count "as though" it were a completely different model. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of confusing parts in need of clarification. 

 

Like to my current understanding the target counts as though it were Colette, but Colette also counts as Colette which could make auras interesting. It might also get confusing with Doves which will count as Colette, but also don't specify that they stop counting as Doves for the action. 

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8 minutes ago, Vangerdahast said:

Cassandra can copy Boring Conversation from Dorian but would this count as Cassandra's bonus action?

Same question with Colette's Smoke and Mirrors?

I believe the correct answer is yes but can't remember where I read that.

I believe the answer is no, it doesn't count against your 1 bonus action a turn. It's the same way that actions generated from other actions or triggers don't count towards your limit.  Like when you take the charge action, the attack it generates doesn't use your second action for the turn.

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1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I believe the answer is no, it doesn't count against your 1 bonus action a turn. It's the same way that actions generated from other actions or triggers don't count towards your limit.  Like when you take the charge action, the attack it generates doesn't use your second action for the turn.

I think the 'doesn't count as your bonus' is only for triggers?

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4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think the 'doesn't count as your bonus' is only for triggers?

You're right. 

I play against Friekorps and thought it was a thing everyone can do. But when von schill give himself a bonus action, it's from a trigger. And when Hannah does it with Adaptive Tactics it explicitly allows her to do it.

 

So, Cassandra could make a second decoy marker a turn. But it would take both her bonus action and a standard action which is kind of expensive for an 8 stone model.

Screenshot_20210903-174726.png

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I can't really see any particular reason to play her in theme. She really only cares about Decoys, Doves and the occasional scheme marker. She doesn't really do anything with the performer keyword at all. 

Cassandra is about the only model you'd really want to piggyback off of Colette's shenanigans. Maybe Harata? Not sure how his aura's act with decoys. Other than that, I don't see a reason to stay in theme here. 

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9 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I don't like the new Colette art.

She looks positively matronly. 

I agreed initially but then thought of her less of a in the sewers, under the cover of night smuggler and more of a decoy and deception smuggler, "look I'm just a Lady about town, nothing dangerous or threatening about little old me" then if/when the shit hits the fan suddenly it's mechanical doves and illusionary Colette's all over the place, pick one fast before the real woman vanishes.

So getting used to it and feeling the theme. Smugglers don't do big and flashy, they do understated and painfully mundane.

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47 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Cassandra could make a second decoy marker a turn. But it would take both her bonus action and a standard action which is kind of expensive for an 8 stone model.

Agreed but still useful in an emergency.

46 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think Cassandra wants to copy the thing where she can attack through decoys, so she can do like Breath of Fire across the table.

This and Carlos open an interesting avenue for Burning schtick.

8 minutes ago, Jordon said:

I can't really see any particular reason to play her in theme. She really only cares about Decoys, Doves and the occasional scheme marker. She doesn't really do anything with the performer keyword at all. 

True. but Dorian clearly has a potential place, Cassandra is very useful, Carlos also could run some interesting Burning, Harata is plain cool and provides solid killing. The Coryphee (Duet) are still as useful and deadly as always. All these models I could see using anyway, especially, obviously, Cassandra. 

It is the Performers, Mannequins and Ice Dancers that I don't see having a firm niche. I feel like this Colette plays into more damage and offensive conditions, so the solid Arcanist versatile pool may be the resort. 

This is perhaps my primary disappointment.

4 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Like to my current understanding the target counts as though it were Colette, but Colette also counts as Colette which could make auras interesting. It might also get confusing with Doves which will count as Colette, but also don't specify that they stop counting as Doves for the action. 

Looking at this, I fully understand the confusion. 

Me, until official clarification, I'll read it strictly as worded, so for all intents and purposes it will play as though Colette has temporarily projected to the exact spot of the decoy/dove and is attacking, keeping all the bonuses, negatives and auras of the actual Colette (or Cassandra as the case may be). The decoy/dove is "Colette" and whatever it has connected to it doesn't apply. The entire action occurs, with all triggers and effects, then finished.

I'm not certain exactly how this plays to rules timings and such, but it feels like the rules intent and is the easiest for me to understand in my head.  

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4 hours ago, dancater said:

decoy and deception smuggler, "look I'm just a Lady about town, nothing dangerous or threatening about little old me"

I thought that too. Like low key Colette. 

But then the model is also holding a fist size growing soulstone, which seems like it gives the game away.

4 hours ago, dancater said:

I'm not certain exactly how this plays to rules timings and such

Yeah the timing of stuff will be interesting. Like I think Colette can choose a Dove as the target of Routine Performance, take her Prism attack then burn the Dove as a soulstone using it's Smuggled Soulstones since modifying the duel comes after measuring range to the target. It could be used to guarantee the suit Colette needs to summon a new Dove in base contact with that attack's target.

I think she could also sac a Dove next to her actual model since it would also count as with 3 :aura of Colette.

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3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I believe the answer is no, it doesn't count against your 1 bonus action a turn. It's the same way that actions generated from other actions or triggers don't count towards your limit.  Like when you take the charge action, the attack it generates doesn't use your second action for the turn.

The World Series has ruled that it takes both your Action and your Bonus Action. This is because Bonus Actions specifically state that only 1 can be taken an Activation, with the only exception being those generated from triggers specifically

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10 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I believe the answer is no, it doesn't count against your 1 bonus action a turn. It's the same way that actions generated from other actions or triggers don't count towards your limit.  Like when you take the charge action, the attack it generates doesn't use your second action for the turn.

I believe that consensus in disscusion and world series FAQ was opposite. 1 bonus per activation, does not matter if it was generated by other action

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9 hours ago, Thatguy said:

You're right. 

I play against Friekorps and thought it was a thing everyone can do. But when von schill give himself a bonus action, it's from a trigger. And when Hannah does it with Adaptive Tactics it explicitly allows her to do it.

 

So, Cassandra could make a second decoy marker a turn. But it would take both her bonus action and a standard action which is kind of expensive for an 8 stone model.

Screenshot_20210903-174726.png

Yep Thatguy already self-corrected that misapprehension.

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So my reading, Shell Game is a trigger on Colette's melee attack.

You attack the ENEMY model, hit and get the :mask trigger. Then you can place that model, as I read it, into base contact with any friendly decoy marker within 8" and LoS of Colette.

If you use Routine Performance and make an attack through a friendly decoy marker then that marker is as though it were this model so the marker is, for all intents and purposes Colette for the duration of the melee attack, if "she" hit the :mask trigger then the enemy model could be placed into base contact with a friendly decoy marker within 8" and LoS of "Colette" (that marker 'is' Colette). For the duration of the attack Colette is the decoy marker, the 8" and LoS would be measured from the location that the decoy marker occupied. 

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