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9 hours ago, Jinn said:

Pretty sure they mean during the game. If they're playing McM2 that attack based then they aren't summoning one every turn. Still very efficient.

I was reading it as getting 2 Flesh Constructs first turn, not every turn. I think I can see a way of doing it, while leaving 1 McMourning AP to hand out upgrades with a Gravedigger, Sebastian summoning (or just hiring) a Canine remains and either doing 4dg to the Corpses Curator or bringing a second Gravedigger). Not sure if it's worth it...

 

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Sorry, I meant over the course of the game.

The summon is once per turn, so you can't summon twice.

As for double masters... That is the default game type, so I think it is reasonable to have balance concerns around it. But I don't think the master combos are that worthwhile outside mcmourning himself (Seamus and yan lo already can kill really well, hiring a second master to buff their attacks isn't necessary IMO. Molly for card draw is probably better).

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12 hours ago, dannydb said:

geeze, yer i can see plastic surgery getting changed quick 

It's a fun ability for sure but with regards to design space this is even worse than the Agent47's previous combo of Mimic and Inhuman Physiology. Not seeing this ability survive an errata if they opt to release it with the current wording and lack of restrictions. Even if both the donator and recipient had to be within keyword this action would be ridiculously strong.

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4 minutes ago, Barmution said:

It's a fun ability for sure but with regards to design space this is even worse than the Agent47's previous combo of Mimic and Inhuman Physiology. Not seeing this ability survive an errata if they opt to release it with the current wording and lack of restrictions. Even if both the donator and recipient had to be within keyword this action would be ridiculously strong.

I think making the recipient experimental minion only would be great.

Although I wouldn't put it on the level of mimic and inhuman physiology. Attacks your opponent can't cheat against are just next level strong. I can't think of anything in ressers that is remotely close to that power level for stones using plastic surgery.

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16 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think making the recipient experimental minion only would be great.

Although I wouldn't put it on the level of mimic and inhuman physiology. Attacks your opponent can't cheat against are just next level strong. I can't think of anything in ressers that is remotely close to that power level for stones using plastic surgery.

The Agent was insanely strong but this ability allows you to put a 10 SS model's attacks on summonable throw away minions (even with your proposed restriction) or Nurses who has access to built in suits and add to that the fact that the keyword has access to TN-less pseudo-Obey on those same Nurses. And at least with the Agent you could tie down or remove that singular model, with Ressers now gaining another great Take The Hit model I'm not sure what the counterplays will be. I'd love to be proven wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Deathinabox said:

With his ability to drop an extra corpse off a model with +3 poison, I think it's worth it to have the chihuahua chew on your mindless zombies before you use them to snag an extra corpse.

That's quite a reasonable idea, I had forgotten the chihuahua can do 3 poison to a target.

Although I like the Canine Remains over the Mindless Zombie, that gives 2 more damage to the curator.

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5 minutes ago, Barmution said:

The Agent was insanely strong but this ability allows you to put a 10 SS model's attacks on summonable throw away minions (even with your proposed restriction) or Nurses who has access to built in suits and add to that the fact that the keyword has access to TN-less pseudo-Obey on those same Nurses. And at least with the Agent you could tie down or remove that singular model, with Ressers now gaining another great Take The Hit model I'm not sure what the counterplays will be. I'd love to be proven wrong.

It certainly is ridiculously strong!

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On 8/29/2021 at 9:59 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Sorry, could you clarify what you mean by 'stalling him'?

From your experience playing him have you seen any areas that he struggles?
Something the opponent can do to slow him down a bit beyond tarpitting his super monsters?

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5 minutes ago, ThreeBatts said:

From your experience playing him have you seen any areas that he struggles?
Something the opponent can do to slow him down a bit beyond tarpitting his super monsters?

If he is going for the summon engine, disrupt him or get an early lead on points. Summoners have a strong late game, so you want a strong early game to beat them.

If he is going for the plastic surgery bomb, you can disrupt by hitting the target that he is trying to buff up. Stuns help (kill the nurses first), or kill the rogue necromancy to take his good attack. And remember he cant steal your masters attacks.

Also removing the curator and support pieces is probably a worthwhile goal, but not as important as killing rogue necro. Careful though - it may take ~25 damage to put down if you dont remove the poison. Killing the blood poison models may help.

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On 8/31/2021 at 4:55 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

If he is going for the summon engine, disrupt him or get an early lead on points. Summoners have a strong late game, so you want a strong early game to beat them.

If he is going for the plastic surgery bomb, you can disrupt by hitting the target that he is trying to buff up. Stuns help (kill the nurses first), or kill the rogue necromancy to take his good attack. And remember he cant steal your masters attacks.

Also removing the curator and support pieces is probably a worthwhile goal, but not as important as killing rogue necro. Careful though - it may take ~25 damage to put down if you dont remove the poison. Killing the blood poison models may help.

That'll be helpful when my group starts testing the new titles.
Thank you.

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Tried the Valley bomb into Pandora. Didn't like how little AP I had for the strategy on standard Break The Lines.

Here's the list I used:

Small boom McM (Resurrectionist)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Dr. McMourning
Totem(s):
  Zombie Chihuahua
Hires:
  The Valedictorian
  Rogue Necromancy
  Nurse
  Curator
  Sloth
  Canine Remains
  Mindless Zombie
References:
  Flesh Construct

In terms of actual models to move Break The Line markers, it felt rough (although curator's Don't Mind Me-esque ability seems abusable).

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5 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

How long did Val live after you sent her in? 

Got her (stunned) activation on turn 2 almost killing hooded rider and putting a lot of pressure on, then died by close to the end of turn 2.

She stood in a forest which really hampered misery pushing her around, and also was pretty tanky.

So I think it'd be a worthwhile trick if your crew had followup, but the crew is a bit slow to followup xD Saving Valedictorian until the enemy decides to cross the centreline is probably better.

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Just now, Arlos896 said:

Walk us through how you used the valley bomb! 

  • Used McMourning to plastic surgery her to have the rogue necromancy attack.
    • Which incidentally is really bad against Pandora 2's luck thief, so I just planned to not attack her.
  • Used a Nurse to bash her up the field six inches (and heal her up afterwards to remove the stunned).
  • Used sloth to make her fast.
  • Then noticed I had 14 cards left and one of them was the red joker, so just went joker-fishing with her... But didn't manage to hit it (the joker was the second to last card of the deck xD)
  • If I had landed the joker on a damage hit, the rider would have died.
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14 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Canine Remains
  Mindless Zombie

Would it be worth swapping these two out for a Grave Digger?

Can generate 2 Corpses for first turn, or 1 and a focus bomb (as you shouldn't be discarding the corpse due to RRR). Then each turn can either make a new corpse or Focus bomb. Can heal undead. Much hittier and sturdier than the doggo if need be.

Deffo gunna be getting me a box of these guys.

I reckon a fairly standard list is gunna look like:

Insanitary
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Dr. McMourning
Totem(s):
  Zombie Chihuahua
Hires:
  Sebastian
  Nurse
  Rogue Necromancy
  Kentaurai
  Curator
  Gravedigger
References:
  Flesh Construct

I'll probably take an upgrade as I don't think Insanitary McMourning is gunna be too stone hungry and I generally run pretty light. Thinking either The Whisper on Sebastian or Curator to help with suits or GST on the Kentaurai (just a great upgrade).

 

Rough first turn playbook:

  1. Chihuahua goes, focus, pass give everyone poison
  2. Gravedigger goes, Blasphemous ritual (RRR to keep marker) & double walks or focus walks.
  3. Sebastian goes, summons doggo (RRR to keep marker) & either walks/focuses/Flask of Formaldehyde
  4. Doggo goes, Carrion on corpse (making a second with RRR), then walks
  5. Curator goes, Cursed Sludge to hopefully drop a scrap, but Sludge is good too). Walks, Focuses or Dredge up if I need to move a marker
  6. McMourning goes. Charges Curator, to drop a second scrap. Makes a Fleshie. Desperate Plot RN over the scrap for upgrade, hopefully trigger a second time to do the same to Ketaurai, maybe?? go for the +2Mv?? Plastic surgery something... ideas? Give RN Tools for the Job?
    1. The next lot are flexible
  7. Fleshie walks/focuses & shoots
  8. Kentaurai Taxis Sebastian up, does something useful with 2ap
  9. Nurse walks, assists McMourning to remove Distracted, drugs up (Painkillers) Curator if desperate (he'll heal thanks to poison), then walks again? Could also charge RN to push him up then heal/remove Stunned
  10. RN goes, Ambush, then walks, charges and kills something with 2 attacks...

That's living the dream anyway! It's not too card intensive needing a:

  • Doggo summon - 6+:crow
  • Cursed Sludge - 5+ (preferably either :crowor:tome), not super necessary...
  • Desperate Plot - 6+ (preferably :mask)
  • Ride With Me - 6+, not super necessary
  • Bottle of Painkillers - 4+, not super necessary
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2 hours ago, Da Git said:

Insanitary
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Dr. McMourning
Totem(s):
  Zombie Chihuahua
Hires:
  Sebastian
  Nurse
  Rogue Necromancy
  Kentaurai
  Curator
  Gravedigger

This is about what I was thinking of as a standard list. 

Maybe swapping The Grave Digger and Kentaurai for the Emissary sometimes. 

 

17 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Tried the Valley bomb into Pandora. Didn't like how little AP I had for the strategy on standard Break The Lines.

How'd the game go? What was the final score?

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20 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Toshiro may have a place in here occasionally. 

I think the same. I think any pool that focuses hard on the center would benefit from a list that can pop out a Canine, Ashigaru and maybe Construct a turn. Coordinated Attack and Cut Them Down work really well with Spreading your best attacks via plastic surgery too.

Honestly to me this McMourning seems like the new default to me. He doesn't have any hard counters I can see, since RRR offers a lot of protection against marker removal. The OG Mcmourning will be the wild card you play when you think they won't bring condition removal. 

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9 hours ago, Da Git said:

 

  1. McMourning goes. Charges Curator, to drop a second scrap. Makes a Fleshie. Desperate Plot RN over the scrap for upgrade, hopefully trigger a second time to do the same to Ketaurai, maybe?? go for the +2Mv?? Plastic surgery something... ideas? Give RN Tools for the Job?

You can't give Tools for the Job to the Rogue Necromancy I think (actions only?), but you can give sebastian's flask to the chihuahua and have it throw out more poison (in which case you want to activate it last).

And yeah, the idea of a gravedigger is growing on me for sure. Though then you're dedicating 20 stones to the summoning package, so not sure it is worth it... But all those stones have other roles, so possibly works out.

Merits testing for sure.

6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I think the same. I think any pool that focuses hard on the center would benefit from a list that can pop out a Canine, Ashigaru and maybe Construct a turn. Coordinated Attack and Cut Them Down work really well with Spreading your best attacks via plastic surgery too.

Honestly to me this McMourning seems like the new default to me. He doesn't have any hard counters I can see, since RRR offers a lot of protection against marker removal. The OG Mcmourning will be the wild card you play when you think they won't bring condition removal. 

One thing to keep in mind is that summons can't do 3 of the strategies, so going that hard on summoning is primarily for leylines IMO. And even there, feels a bit overboard?

But test it out! It's all new, nobody knows the right answer(s) yet!

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

You can't give Tools for the Job to the Rogue Necromancy I think (actions only?), but you can give sebastian's flask to the chihuahua and have it throw out more poison (in which case you want to activate it last).

And yeah, the idea of a gravedigger is growing on me for sure. Though then you're dedicating 20 stones to the summoning package, so not sure it is worth it... But all those stones have other roles, so possibly works out.

Merits testing for sure.

One thing to keep in mind is that summons can't do 3 of the strategies, so going that hard on summoning is primarily for leylines IMO. And even there, feels a bit overboard?

But test it out! It's all new, nobody knows the right answer(s) yet!

I think the 3 strategies that usually punish summoning are where Toshiro can shine with McMourning. Ashigaru’s THH and Extended Reach make it that much more difficult to kill the models which matter for the strategy or are affected by plastic surgery, while the 2” engage can do better at interact denial than Annoying.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Someone asked me what crew is best if you want to play Mindless Zombies. 

My first thought was this crew because any of the mindless zombies you bring can be plastic surgery targets or two corpses for whatever you're trying to do. 

That made me think of Rotten too. With Residents of Rottenburg any Mindless Zombie can potentially interact to drop a scheme marker and then interact again to pick it up, getting a card off Reduce Reuse Recycle.

Rotten and 8 mindless could draw you 9 cards a turn. Lol probably not a great investment for 24 stones but a fun idea. 

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