New McMourning

[Thatguy]

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I could even see an argument for curator himself, since he is likely to be near a pile of corpses early game.

I think Grave Spirit's touch would be better. Regen +2 so you can keep using him as a marker or he can Blasphemous Ritual himself for a focus pulse.

2 hours ago, KingJocko said:

Corpse Curator looks like it'll be an occasional pick when I have a specific job for it, not something I'd take for general purposes since it's fairly suit dependent.

He's the best source of scrap in faction for Extra Arms. I think he's just about auto include for Mc2.

[Zombified Kiwi]

23 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Curator can stack 100 poison and blow someone up, and if he fails he just heals xD Particularly potent with McMourning 1 who can abuse rancid transplant to make this go off with no resist xD

 

I'm missing something somewhere.
How can the Curator stack high enough to do massive damage?
Also, how can it do the damage in one sitting?
I read it as transferring per tick, but I don't think the poison damage can tick more than maybe twice in a turn?

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 minutes ago, ThreeBatts said:

I'm missing something somewhere.
How can the Curator stack high enough to do massive damage?
Also, how can it do the damage in one sitting?
I read it as transferring per tick, but I don't think the poison damage can tick more than maybe twice in a turn?

There's an old thread in the forums that stacks over 100 poison on a model turn 1. Mostly an interesting idea, it is more than you could conceivably use (I believe it involves aoeing poison and then rancid transplanting it all on to one model).

Once curator ends in base contact with something, they take damage at the end of the turn instead of the curator (and 100 poison will be over 30 damage, enough to kill anything that can be one-shot).

[Gheist]

11 hours ago, solkan said:

Using that ability, you take an action that requires you to remove a marker, and when you do so instead of removing the marker you inflict 2 irreducible damage.  As a result, no effect that responds to a corpse marker (or any other marker, for that matter) being removed is triggered. 

Allright, if everybody else agrees on this.

Compare to the Walking Dead ability on Mindless Zombies for an ability where you do remove the corpse marker (and in response the model's ability kills the model to tie up administrative ends).  As a result, effects that respond to the removal of a corpse marker (or any other marker) are triggered.

So if the curator dies in any way, that's a legit Corpse removal?

[solkan]

15 minutes ago, Gheist said:

So if the curator dies in any way, that's a legit Corpse removal?

It doesn't matter whether the damage kills the curator.

If McMourning performs the Twisted Genius actions and you select a physical corpse marker, a mindless zombie and a curator to fulfill the requirements, Reduce, Reuse and Recycle goes off twice--once for the "real" corpse marker, and once for the mindless zombie (you counted it as a corpse marker, you probably end up dropping a corpse marker because mindless zombie was killed, if you go with option two of McMourning's ability.  Although I wouldn't be surprised if there's a marker recycling FAQ to unify this effect and the Wandering River Style effect, allowing the zombie to survive the ordeal...).  

Whether the two damage kills the curator or not, that two damage satisfies McMourning's requirement and doesn't set off Reduce, Reuse and Recycle.  That's what "If you would do X, do Y instead" causes--You do Y instead of doing X.  That satisfies the rule that told you to do X, even though you actually did Y.

(The Corpse Curator's just "Construct" so you'd end up with a scrap marker if the damage killed it, anyway...)

 

[Zombified Kiwi]

Oooooh I see where I was wrong now.
For some reason my brain was stuck on 100 points of poison deals 1 damage and then ticks down to 99.

What was that again, the 2E poison?

[Gheist]

4 hours ago, solkan said:

It doesn't matter whether the damage kills the curator.

If McMourning performs the Twisted Genius actions and you select a physical corpse marker, a mindless zombie and a curator to fulfill the requirements, Reduce, Reuse and Recycle goes off twice--once for the "real" corpse marker, and once for the mindless zombie (you counted it as a corpse marker, you probably end up dropping a corpse marker because mindless zombie was killed, if you go with option two of McMourning's ability.  Although I wouldn't be surprised if there's a marker recycling FAQ to unify this effect and the Wandering River Style effect, allowing the zombie to survive the ordeal...).  

Whether the two damage kills the curator or not, that two damage satisfies McMourning's requirement and doesn't set off Reduce, Reuse and Recycle.  That's what "If you would do X, do Y instead" causes--You do Y instead of doing X.  That satisfies the rule that told you to do X, even though you actually did Y.

Yeah i was with you so far Sounds super daft but well the complaints are mounting up quickly wherever one looks

4 hours ago, solkan said:

(The Corpse Curator's just "Construct" so you'd end up with a scrap marker if the damage killed it, anyway...)

My question was in general: If he is killed (by any damage) he gets removed, so would trigger Reduce reuse recycle.

Because Construct or not he is still treated as a corspse marker

[Whut]

God !@#$ing damn it. Wyrd, why'd you have to go and do this? It was enough of a draw to go back to Ressers when you made my precious Kirai great and interesting, but now you take McM, the master I've always loved in theory but never in practice, and made him into this fun amalgamation of combining actions and upgrades? Why, Wyrd? Why couldn't you leave me to enjoy Explorers in peace for at least a year?

Anyways... this might be the excitement talking, but I think this may easily become another "S+ tier" Master. I try to hold off on strong balance opinions early, so take it with a grain of salt. I just know I don't think I'll ever stop playing this. I love abilities in games that let you combine triggers, actions, etc and staple them (ha) onto pieces they didn't come from. McM already had a strong set of keyword models but suffered from some awkwardness when trying to do things like get enough corpses near him to summon, get use out of models like Autopsies, and playing the marker game.

_____

To add to the cool list of not-at-all overpowered combos people are making, I thought of these:

1 - Staple Dredge Up onto a Nurse with Skin. She now only needs a 2 for Meds, and a 4 for Dredge Up. Preferably get Masks from Tools. Activate, bonus action to heal, remove a condition, and move 3" if you need range. Free Assist Action to remove Distracted. Preferably Dredge Up a Sludge Marker within 8", but also any terrain marker will do if the enemy is engaged with a model who has Skin. Push the marker 4", poisoning every enemy it passes through. Attack with built in Daze Trigger to deal 2, give Stunned, and Push 3" (granted Stat 5, but target correctly or just take your chances with a good hand). Since you push through the Slime during a different action, that's another Poison. If you got a Mask on Dredge, that's another 3" Push. And then you can do it a second time using a different marker. 

1.5 - You can also give Dredge Up to a Rogue Necromancy to make it a ranged attacker. Then in addition to its Activation, 'Obey' with a Nurse to let it Dredge Up and attack at range twice more. It loses Focused and gains Distracted+1, but the built-in plus to duel counteracts this. Does this allow the attack to declare triggers? I think yes, because Nurse Trigger generates Dredge, and Dredge generates the attack, so the attack isn't generated by a trigger.

2 - Just take Emissary. The Coffin action requires an 8 and leaves you with a Zombie, a Coffin, and removes a Coffin - giving you a card or a Coffin near McM for Skin. Zombies can have huge attacks stapled to them, so just one which concentrates every turn cannot be ignored. Emissary also grants +1 Move, so a lot of things become Mv 8 with Legs. This includes the new guy, who can walk 16" (24" with Fast from Sloth) and carry a Scheme Marker with him into the enemy deployment zone.

(Is there a concensus on whether you can staple an action if only one of its triggers names a model? I assume you can't, which is probably for the best because stapling Rot & Rend would be blatantly too much)

3 - Autopsies are effectively SSMiners/Prospectors without needing to gain Stunned, but needing to somewhat stick near McM. So, effectively 5 Cost minus 1 for each turn they live. Staple any of the upgrades onto them to make them usually survive 2 attacks (Arms or Legs to make them into threatening pieces - their melee isn't bad at all. They also make good Chatty platforms) Have them concentrate every turn, and constantly threaten having a big attack stapled onto them with Focused+2 and possibly Legs for more threat range+damage, especially because it's easy for him to exit engagement. Worst case, he fires a couple Focused shots, dies to become a corpse, and helps control the area near McM early game. With his 2nd AP he can also alternate Interacting to drop and remove a scheme marker for a card. I'm even considering giving him GST for a properly strong Bonus Action, Terrifying 11, and Regen+2. But then he eats 1 corpse (but gains a card) and he'll still fall easily to a dedicated assassination run without 2 Appendages - worth it for the opponent if he's 7 Cost and chatty, not so much at 5 Cost. But I feel like NOT having GST somewhere is a waste with Experimental's excellent selection of minions and Corpse recycling.

4 - Dogs OP. Dogs OP? Yes, dogs big OP. Sebastian is an auto-take, hands down. Their bonus action effectively makes 1 Corpse into 2, they can hide behind Ht1 terrain, and they can scheme - perhaps at Mv7/8/9. They can sit 8" back from McM and Interact Drop, Interact Remove, Bonus action to supply him with a Corpse and a Card. They can move, bonus, move to fetch one Corpse and magically bring McM two. Sure, they die easy, but who cares? They drop either 2 Corpses or a corpse and a Scheme if they have Poison +3, and they can even drop 2 schemes if given an extra Head.

Or - my personal favorite - have one sit in the back and concentrate while generating corpses. Wait to activate or summon 1-2 other dogs late in the turn, along with McM. You are likely giving your opponent pass tokens so its possible they don't have many threats left. Double walk a dog or two near an activated enemy. Activate McM, push the Focused +2 dog 4" through his personal play-corpse and give him Legs. Push him again if need be and preferably give the dog Arms. Plastic Surgery to staple Sebastian's or Rogue's or someone else's powerful Stat 6/7 attack onto the dog. Now activate the dog, charge the enemy and attack 2-3 times at effective Stat 7/8/9 thanks to Pack Mentality, plus Focused+2, plus Charge Through, plus possibly Flurry, and probably Poison so H2K doesn't work. Dead master? Just in general, Charge Through + Focused means you need 2 negatives (H2W and SS) to reliably prevent a straight flip or better on damage. Good luck against Stat 8 though.

Wow, got carried away, but hope you all enjoy.

Edit: Also, if you recycle an enemy Scheme Marker, does it remain an enemy scheme marker? Or become friendly? It seems to say the marker itself gets placed, meaning enemy terrain and scheme markers remain enemy.

[nishi]

2 hours ago, Whut said:

4 - Dogs OP. Dogs OP? Yes, dogs big OP. Sebastian is an auto-take, hands down. Their bonus action effectively makes 1 Corpse into 2, they can hide behind Ht1 terrain, and they can scheme - perhaps at Mv7/8/9. They can sit 8" back from McM and Interact Drop, Interact Remove, Bonus action to supply him with a Corpse and a Card. They can move, bonus, move to fetch one Corpse and magically bring McM two. Sure, they die easy, but who cares? They drop either 2 Corpses or a corpse and a Scheme if they have Poison +3, and they can even drop 2 schemes if given an extra Head.

 

So horrendous corpse makes an extra scheme/corpse to an addition to the standart marker model drops when killled?

[fire5tone]

9 minutes ago, nishi said:

So horrendous corpse makes an extra scheme/corpse to an addition to the standart marker model drops when killled?

Yeah, so if curator has poison 3 you get a corpse and scrap on death

[Zombified Kiwi]

4 hours ago, Whut said:

God !@#$ing damn it. Wyrd, why'd you have to go and do this? It was enough of a draw to go back to Ressers when you made my precious Kirai great and interesting, but now you take McM, the master I've always loved in theory but never in practice, and made him into this fun amalgamation of combining actions and upgrades? Why, Wyrd? Why couldn't you leave me to enjoy Explorers in peace for at least a year?

Anyways... this might be the excitement talking, but I think this may easily become another "S+ tier" Master. I try to hold off on strong balance opinions early, so take it with a grain of salt. I just know I don't think I'll ever stop playing this. I love abilities in games that let you combine triggers, actions, etc and staple them (ha) onto pieces they didn't come from. McM already had a strong set of keyword models but suffered from some awkwardness when trying to do things like get enough corpses near him to summon, get use out of models like Autopsies, and playing the marker game.

_____

To add to the cool list of not-at-all overpowered combos people are making, I thought of these:

1 - Staple Dredge Up onto a Nurse with Skin. She now only needs a 2 for Meds, and a 4 for Dredge Up. Preferably get Masks from Tools. Activate, bonus action to heal, remove a condition, and move 3" if you need range. Free Assist Action to remove Distracted. Preferably Dredge Up a Sludge Marker within 8", but also any terrain marker will do if the enemy is engaged with a model who has Skin. Push the marker 4", poisoning every enemy it passes through. Attack with built in Daze Trigger to deal 2, give Stunned, and Push 3" (granted Stat 5, but target correctly or just take your chances with a good hand). Since you push through the Slime during a different action, that's another Poison. If you got a Mask on Dredge, that's another 3" Push. And then you can do it a second time using a different marker. 

1.5 - You can also give Dredge Up to a Rogue Necromancy to make it a ranged attacker. Then in addition to its Activation, 'Obey' with a Nurse to let it Dredge Up and attack at range twice more. It loses Focused and gains Distracted+1, but the built-in plus to duel counteracts this. Does this allow the attack to declare triggers? I think yes, because Nurse Trigger generates Dredge, and Dredge generates the attack, so the attack isn't generated by a trigger.

2 - Just take Emissary. The Coffin action requires an 8 and leaves you with a Zombie, a Coffin, and removes a Coffin - giving you a card or a Coffin near McM for Skin. Zombies can have huge attacks stapled to them, so just one which concentrates every turn cannot be ignored. Emissary also grants +1 Move, so a lot of things become Mv 8 with Legs. This includes the new guy, who can walk 16" (24" with Fast from Sloth) and carry a Scheme Marker with him into the enemy deployment zone.

(Is there a concensus on whether you can staple an action if only one of its triggers names a model? I assume you can't, which is probably for the best because stapling Rot & Rend would be blatantly too much)

3 - Autopsies are effectively SSMiners/Prospectors without needing to gain Stunned, but needing to somewhat stick near McM. So, effectively 5 Cost minus 1 for each turn they live. Staple any of the upgrades onto them to make them usually survive 2 attacks (Arms or Legs to make them into threatening pieces - their melee isn't bad at all. They also make good Chatty platforms) Have them concentrate every turn, and constantly threaten having a big attack stapled onto them with Focused+2 and possibly Legs for more threat range+damage, especially because it's easy for him to exit engagement. Worst case, he fires a couple Focused shots, dies to become a corpse, and helps control the area near McM early game. With his 2nd AP he can also alternate Interacting to drop and remove a scheme marker for a card. I'm even considering giving him GST for a properly strong Bonus Action, Terrifying 11, and Regen+2. But then he eats 1 corpse (but gains a card) and he'll still fall easily to a dedicated assassination run without 2 Appendages - worth it for the opponent if he's 7 Cost and chatty, not so much at 5 Cost. But I feel like NOT having GST somewhere is a waste with Experimental's excellent selection of minions and Corpse recycling.

4 - Dogs OP. Dogs OP? Yes, dogs big OP. Sebastian is an auto-take, hands down. Their bonus action effectively makes 1 Corpse into 2, they can hide behind Ht1 terrain, and they can scheme - perhaps at Mv7/8/9. They can sit 8" back from McM and Interact Drop, Interact Remove, Bonus action to supply him with a Corpse and a Card. They can move, bonus, move to fetch one Corpse and magically bring McM two. Sure, they die easy, but who cares? They drop either 2 Corpses or a corpse and a Scheme if they have Poison +3, and they can even drop 2 schemes if given an extra Head.

Or - my personal favorite - have one sit in the back and concentrate while generating corpses. Wait to activate or summon 1-2 other dogs late in the turn, along with McM. You are likely giving your opponent pass tokens so its possible they don't have many threats left. Double walk a dog or two near an activated enemy. Activate McM, push the Focused +2 dog 4" through his personal play-corpse and give him Legs. Push him again if need be and preferably give the dog Arms. Plastic Surgery to staple Sebastian's or Rogue's or someone else's powerful Stat 6/7 attack onto the dog. Now activate the dog, charge the enemy and attack 2-3 times at effective Stat 7/8/9 thanks to Pack Mentality, plus Focused+2, plus Charge Through, plus possibly Flurry, and probably Poison so H2K doesn't work. Dead master? Just in general, Charge Through + Focused means you need 2 negatives (H2W and SS) to reliably prevent a straight flip or better on damage. Good luck against Stat 8 though.

Wow, got carried away, but hope you all enjoy.

Edit: Also, if you recycle an enemy Scheme Marker, does it remain an enemy scheme marker? Or become friendly? It seems to say the marker itself gets placed, meaning enemy terrain and scheme markers remain enemy.

I never thought of a single part of that.
I feel woefully inadequate.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, ThreeBatts said:

I never thought of a single part of that.
I feel woefully inadequate.

Half the trick of being good is stealing the ideas of others I reckon. Impossible to find all the tricks for a crew by yourself!

[Thatguy]

22 hours ago, Whut said:

They drop either 2 Corpses or a corpse and a Scheme if they have Poison +3, and they can even drop 2 schemes if given an extra Head.

Yeah this crew is going to be really good at scheming. With Extra Head the model either lives long enough to scheme or gets to scheme when it's attacked/killed. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just played McMourning on leylines, and sweet googly moogly he is powerful.

Note that summoners are just broken on leylines anyway, so take this with a grain of salt, but...

• Summoned 17 stones of models (2 flesh constructs, 1 canine remains).
  • Took 2 master AP and one Hench AP.
• In ONE turn, I took 5-6 pouncing strike attacks by using plastic surgery.
  • Rogue Necro landed 3 with flurry
  • Mcmourning copied and landed 2-3 more
  • Turns out positive flips are pretty overwhelming (but I also had 3 masks in hand).
• I drew some cards, but not as much as I expected. The corpse engine was a bit clunky at times as I used up all markers turn 1.
• The upgrades are pretty insane. +4 health for rogue necro is SO good, and the effects of the upgrades is super strong.

I went to a lot of effort turn 1 to setup the summon engine. I'm not sure it is worth delaying the absolutely monstrous killing power of McMourning 2. Honestly he feels more deadly than McMourning 1 which feels very backwards to me... If they were to edit his card to make plastic surgery other model only, that could make sense. He is a combat god around anything with a good attack.

That said, you do have to setup the attacks, and when Rogue Necromancy died, his power level dropped too.

And of course, the 2 flesh constructs + canine remains scored like 4 points between them xD But that's more a commentary on how broken summoners on leylines are.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh, also blood poisoned the rogue necro twice, so I think it healed 14 damage over the course of the game xD

[Zombified Kiwi]

Having gotten in a game with him what would you say could be an effective way to stall him?

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, ThreeBatts said:

Having gotten in a game with him what would you say could be an effective way to stall him?

Sorry, could you clarify what you mean by 'stalling him'?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Next style I want to test is the Valedictorian build (make Valedictorian fast, give her rogue necro pouncing strike attack, then chuck her into the enemy crew).

Then after Valedictorian is dealt with, do the same thing with mcmourning or rogue necro xD

[Da Git]

12 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Just played McMourning on leylines, and sweet googly moogly he is powerful.

Note that summoners are just broken on leylines anyway, so take this with a grain of salt, but...

• Summoned 17 stones of models (2 flesh constructs, 1 canine remains).
  • Took 2 master AP and one Hench AP.
• In ONE turn, I took 5-6 pouncing strike attacks by using plastic surgery.
  • Rogue Necro landed 3 with flurry
  • Mcmourning copied and landed 2-3 more
  • Turns out positive flips are pretty overwhelming (but I also had 3 masks in hand).
• I drew some cards, but not as much as I expected. The corpse engine was a bit clunky at times as I used up all markers turn 1.
• The upgrades are pretty insane. +4 health for rogue necro is SO good, and the effects of the upgrades is super strong.

I went to a lot of effort turn 1 to setup the summon engine. I'm not sure it is worth delaying the absolutely monstrous killing power of McMourning 2. Honestly he feels more deadly than McMourning 1 which feels very backwards to me... If they were to edit his card to make plastic surgery other model only, that could make sense. He is a combat god around anything with a good attack.

That said, you do have to setup the attacks, and when Rogue Necromancy died, his power level dropped too.

And of course, the 2 flesh constructs + canine remains scored like 4 points between them xD But that's more a commentary on how broken summoners on leylines are.

You summoned 2 fleshies turn 1? Thats impressive? Could you please give a quick rundown of your crew and setup?

[Jinn]

30 minutes ago, Da Git said:

You summoned 2 fleshies turn 1? Thats impressive? Could you please give a quick rundown of your crew and setup?

Pretty sure they mean during the game. If they're playing McM2 that attack based then they aren't summoning one every turn. Still very efficient.

[Jinn]

So has anyone mentioned the Stat 10 Yan Lo combo yet?

[dannydb]

4 hours ago, Jinn said:

So has anyone mentioned the Stat 10 Yan Lo combo yet?

I'm sorry what? 

[Arlos896]

Yan Lo gets +1 to his duel totals for each ascendant upgrade he has to a max of+3. Plastic surgery onto him Sebastian's attack. Turn 3 Yan Lo is effectively stat 10 with crows, crit strike, incorporeal, diving charge and dealer's choice for 3rd upgrade.  

[dannydb]

geeze, yer i can see plastic surgery getting changed quick 

[Paddywhack]

Second masters break a lot of things. It was a nice experiment, but too often leads to issues. I don't know any tourney that allowed them tbh.