New McMourning

[Thatguy]

4 minutes ago, Mello_77 said:

So 1 from Carrion Away, 1 from Re-use, and 1 being the Curator means you can sommon a Construct turn 1 for a bonus action?

Twisted Genius isn't a bonus action. But yeah, it does put 4 wounds on Corpse Curator though.

 

It's also neat because McMourning can attach Extra Legs to the Curator, then later use the Curator as a corpse, stop the damage, use Re-use to get another corpse and get a corpse from detaching Extra Legs.

The more I think about it the more fun interactions there are.

[Adran]

8 minutes ago, Mello_77 said:

I'm not sure if this works, but I think canine remains has an interesting interaction with the Curator.

 

Carrion Away removes a corpse marker and then drops one at end of activation.  Corpse Curator counts as a marker but is not removed.  Re-use on McMourning would drop the "removed" corpse marker within 2".

 

So 1 from Carrion Away, 1 from Re-use, and 1 being the Curator means you can sommon a Construct turn 1 for a bonus action?

I don't think you can "reuse" the Curator like that because the marker wasn't removed, it suffered 2 damage instead. 

[Thatguy]

4 minutes ago, Adran said:

I don't think you can "reuse" the Curator like that because the marker wasn't removed, it suffered 2 damage instead. 

Good catch.

[Mangod]

Just saw the full-body art for Dougie here...

Douglas, don't go stapling random peoples bodyparts to yourself. It's not ok.

[HomelessOne]

Sure it is! Maybe we can get Simulacrum 29 back if he keeps going.

[Thatguy]

18 minutes ago, Mangod said:

Just saw the full-body art for Dougie here...

Douglas, don't go stapling random peoples bodyparts to yourself. It's not ok.

But it's so damn handy.

[admiralvorkraft]

Love the bone saw/staple gun combo 😛

[Paddywhack]

I'm soooo looking forward to this one. Looks like Experimental will be much sturdier with the ablative armor of the upgrades. 

I would have never thought about using Blood Poisoning on the Curator to pass off damage. That probably should be 'during the end phase' to avoid some possible OP shenanigans, but not sure they can change it in time. Probably not a huge deal, but throwing him with Archie or Golem does make it a bit nastier. It does take a lot of set up and several models to make work though.

Plastic Surgery seems like it will have a lot of good uses. Savage Bite will likely become the go to, but other things may pop up as well. Bone Saw might be a good one. Oooh - Rigor Mortis from Sloth! Have him do something else and let the Chihuahua hand out Fast for him! Or first turn copy Sebastian or Rafkin's Flask to hand out as much poison as possible. 

The upgrades! Kentauroi with Mv8 and +dmg flips on charge. Rogue Necro with Flurry, Df5, Mv7, and +dmg on charge! So many good options 🤯 Being able to drop one to reduce by 2 down to 0 is great for defense. Yes, it's annoying to lose an upgrade, but McMourning can just staple it back next turn. 

Curator looks interesting. Df6 is nice to have in resurrs. Injectors seem blah, but with Dredge up may happen occasionally. More likely you're moving him around to drag around markers and drop Sludge Markers. Getting one of those T1 can really help build up poison that you're losing not having Field Testing any more. Create a Sludge Marker and then use Dredge up to push it through a bunch of your models, then walk and drop it to get more. And stopping models within 2" with Poison from engaging is huge. That opens up a lot of play and allows for scheming and scoring strats. Think how great that can be in Break the Line! 

Symbiotic Relationship offers some interesting options as brought up by others. Might get taken down a peg before printing, but still offers some interesting ideas. Keep in mind it can also be used on friendlies for some extra healing. Say McMourning or someone else you need alive got battered and doesn't have much poison on him - move the Curator in BtB and let him use his poison to heal him (obviously only works on Perverse Metabolism models).

Seems like this crew is going to rely on end of turn healing, Blood Poisoning healing, and discarding upgrades to keep models alive longer. 

[Paddywhack]

How does the Timing work for Loot their Corpses and Reduce, Reuse, Recycle? 

Can a Guild Autopsy remove a Corpse at the End of its Activation and McMourning bring it back? Or does it technically happen outside an 'activation' and wouldn't work? I don't think it's broken or anything, just curious. We know Bonus actions can't happen outside an Activation. RRR is once per Activation so similar, but not quite the same. Not sure if it works or not?

Never mind - FAQ Section 1 #12 answers this. It works as it falls within the C1-C4 timing window. 

[Thatguy]

59 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I would have never thought about using Blood Poisoning on the Curator to pass off damage. That probably should be 'during the end phase' to avoid some possible OP shenanigans, but not sure they can change it in time.

It seems like it would be kind of hard to keep the poison stacked, since it ticks down 3 every end phase, and another 2 if you mess up and have him too close to a Catalyst model. On top of models bringing condition removal, if they know you're running a poison crew.

It seems like McM2 wants to do more with marker shenanigans than poison, and just sorta let poison happen, if it happens.

 

Yeah, Loot their Corpse seems really amazing in this crew, either on Guild Autopsies or from the Killer Instinct upgrade. A pretty impressive soulstone engine.

[Gheist]

4 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Thought of one combo. 

Nurses have Tools for the Job. If you've got a mask to throw away, she can have Rouge Necromancy's attack with a guaranteed mask for Pouncing Strike. If you got her the flurry upgrade she's potentially making 6 savage bites a turn. Lol

How long did you think about that one?

 

3 hours ago, Mello_77 said:

I'm not sure if this works, but I think canine remains has an interesting interaction with the Curator.

Carrion Away removes a corpse marker and then drops one at end of activation.  Corpse Curator counts as a marker but is not removed.  Re-use on McMourning would drop the "removed" corpse marker within 2".

So 1 from Carrion Away, 1 from Re-use, and 1 being the Curator means you can sommon a Construct turn 1 for a bonus action?

I am not sure about the wording, it's "if it would be removed this way, it instead suffers 2 irreducible damage" So it is not really removed? But this bites it's tail with "can treat this model as a scrap or corpse marker"   ...  guess i would allow it unless someone could point out why this wouldn't or shouldn't work

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

What if you remove a mindless zombie? Does that count for RRR?

[Arlos896]

It says if the marker is removed this model is killed and doesn't drop a corpse marker. So you still get the benefit of RRR because it isn't doing it instead like CC states. 

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

1 hour ago, Gheist said:

How long did you think about that one?

 

I am not sure about the wording, it's "if it would be removed this way, it instead suffers 2 irreducible damage" So it is not really removed? But this bites it's tail with "can treat this model as a scrap or corpse marker"   ...  guess i would allow it unless someone could point out why this wouldn't or shouldn't work

 

Curator says “instead” so a marker is never removed. Can’t resolve an after removing if nothing gets removed.

35 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What if you remove a mindless zombie? Does that count for RRR?

I think it counts since there isn’t and “instead” after the “if a marker would be removed”. Prob worthy of an FAQ i think.

[Thatguy]

1 hour ago, Gheist said:

How long did you think about that one?

It took a while. I'm not a bright man. 

38 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What if you remove a mindless zombie? Does that count for RRR?

I was thinking about that. The RRR rules say "Drop the removed marker," not drop a marker of the same type. So I think you'd use the exact marker ie the same Mindless Zombie that was removed. But they're aren't rules for "dropping" models only markers. So I think you get a corpse back.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Also, is it just me, or is this one of the titles that is most likely to be broken?

The abilities/combos seem WILDLY powerful. And they are of an extremely high complexity, so are exactly the sort that tend to not discover everything busted you can do in playtesting.

So this is one of the few masters that I immediately have power-level concerns about. But of course we'll have to wait and see. At this stage, the playtesters have done more than us still.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Gheist said:

I am not sure about the wording, it's "if it would be removed this way, it instead suffers 2 irreducible damage" So it is not really removed? But this bites it's tail with "can treat this model as a scrap or corpse marker"   ...  guess i would allow it unless someone could point out why this wouldn't or shouldn't work

Using that ability, you take an action that requires you to remove a marker, and when you do so instead of removing the marker you inflict 2 irreducible damage.  As a result, no effect that responds to a corpse marker (or any other marker, for that matter) being removed is triggered. 

Compare to the Walking Dead ability on Mindless Zombies for an ability where you do remove the corpse marker (and in response the model's ability kills the model to tie up administrative ends).  As a result, effects that respond to the removal of a corpse marker (or any other marker) are triggered.

 

[Thatguy]

25 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also, is it just me, or is this one of the titles that is most likely to be broken?

I'm not worried about it. I've been looking at the rules for tens of minutes and haven't seen anything broken.

 

Seeing him has actually made me less concerned about a Master I thought would be OP, nuHoffman. There seems to be a lot of generic marker removal in Malifaux Burns. Given that NewMourning can remove up to 6 plyons a turn, it seems like a rough match up.

[Paddywhack]

37 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also, is it just me, or is this one of the titles that is most likely to be broken?

I'm not sure I'd say anything is broken yet. There are plenty of current Masters that can do some real nasty stuff. Here there are a lot of complexity issues with Plastic Surgery, but I'm not sure anything is truly Broken. The only one I've seen mentioned so far that might worry me is the Nurse with Savage Bite and 'free' Pouncing Strike. Even that I'm not 100% is broken as the Nurse is pretty squishy. 

I do think he has the most potential to be a 'surprise, I gotcha' master as there are so many weird interactions he can do. Your first few games against him are going to be a hard learning curve. Condition removal is still his Achilles heal, and it works against either version, so you'll always want it. As others have said, the good Dr. himself is pretty squishy as Disguised and 13 wnds is his only real defense. Just put the pressure on him fast. Just like any other grow style crew. 

I do think he's going to be great for Corner deployment as that gives him the most time to power up his crew with poison and upgrades. Wedge might be iffy....

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I'm not sure I'd say anything is broken yet. There are plenty of current Masters that can do some real nasty stuff. Here there are a lot of complexity issues with Plastic Surgery, but I'm not sure anything is truly Broken. The only one I've seen mentioned so far that might worry me is the Nurse with Savage Bite and 'free' Pouncing Strike. Even that I'm not 100% is broken as the Nurse is pretty squishy. 

I do think he has the most potential to be a 'surprise, I gotcha' master as there are so many weird interactions he can do. Your first few games against him are going to be a hard learning curve. Condition removal is still his Achilles heal, and it works against either version, so you'll always want it. As others have said, the good Dr. himself is pretty squishy as Disguised and 13 wnds is his only real defense. Just put the pressure on him fast. Just like any other grow style crew. 

I do think he's going to be great for Corner deployment as that gives him the most time to power up his crew with poison and upgrades. Wedge might be iffy....

That's a good point, early pressure really shuts down a lot of his engines (other than mcmourning himself just take 6 Rogue Necromancy attacks if you have models close enough to pouncing strike xD)

Yeah, it is totally a wait and see thing.

Just feels like the most likely one to be a bit overtuned, but needs lots of actual table time!

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

I like this McMourning as a second master for OG Reva along with a nurse or two. I can see a lot of value in getting 2-3 more uses of one of her actions with guaranteed suits. Bone Piles can be included to allow a nurse spit out a couple corpse markers when needed.

—Edit—

Nvm, non-master… should’ve known it was too good based on similar abilities.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

I like this McMourning as a second master for OG Reva along with a nurse or two. I can see a lot of value in getting 2-3 more uses of one of her actions with guaranteed suits. Bone Piles can be included to allow a nurse spit out a couple corpse markers when needed.

Do you mean copying Reva's actions? Can't copy master actions, thankfully (or you could copy Seamus' gun).

[Azahul]

I wonder if Killer Instinct is worth taking just because it costs you nothing corpse-wise and if you make it to turn 2 it's paid for itself...

 

Edit: Not on McMourning himself to be clear, he removes enough corpses in his own activation. Just on 1-2 models likely to be nearby.

[Maniacal_cackle]

24 minutes ago, Azahul said:

I wonder if Killer Instinct is worth taking just because it costs you nothing corpse-wise and if you make it to turn 2 it's paid for itself...

 

Edit: Not on McMourning himself to be clear, he removes enough corpses in his own activation. Just on 1-2 models likely to be nearby.

I think this is definitely worth including in some builds

I could even see an argument for curator himself, since he is likely to be near a pile of corpses early game.

[KingJocko]

I'm liking this McMourning a lot, reminds me of his 1st edition body part system. It's a very curve ball style of play compared to his normal straight forward approach which is what I was hoping for.

Corpse Curator looks like it'll be an occasional pick when I have a specific job for it, not something I'd take for general purposes since it's fairly suit dependent.

I'm curious on how Trail of Slime on the Excess Fat upgrade interacts with other pieces of terrain. Does Trail of Slime stack with or overwrite existing terrain effects? It doesn't say to use its Hazardous effect instead of the original terrain nor does it say in addition to the original terrain effect and so far I don't see anything in the rule book that would explain this interaction. Also if it does stack, how does it stack? If a model with the Excess Fat upgrade stands on a Pit Trap Marker does that Pit Trap Marker count as Hazardous (Damage 2, Injured +1, and Poison +1) or is it Hazardous (Damage 1 and Injured +1) and (Damage 1 and Poison +1)? This is getting into some rules minutiae, but for the purposes damage reduction one would need to know if this counts as two sources of damage or just one.