lady j How to deal with Lady J

[Adran]

47 minutes ago, Assdex said:

Cause not about one game . I played against her a lot and lose last 5 games .

The next set of questions are

Is it always against the same player? If so, then it probably is a case that the other player is better than you. You need to work out what they do that wins them the game and work on stopping that. When I learnt, my opponent was a much better player than me, but I learnt their style over several years, and whilst they are a better player than me still, I now often come out on top against them because I have learnt how to stop them and their style.  If Its against a range of players then we go to the next question

Why are you losing the games? Very few games are lost because you had a model killed in turn 2 or 3. They are more typically because you had a plan that you couldn't impliment, or you focused on killing the wrong things, or even you were unlucky on the vital flips, and couldn't recover from that. ( A Marshal player drawing 3 severe Rams from Risk of Reason isn't something that you can easily plan against and it will give them a big advantage that turn. If the advantage gained from that was the reason why you lost that game then you have 2 options, accept it was largely luck and try the same tactics next time, or try and learn to play in a away that you can minimise the damage that is done to you with a big swing like that.)

There isn't a magic button that if you do X or Hire Y you will win. 

 

[belorey]

2 hours ago, Assdex said:

Cause not about one game . I played against her a lot and lose last 5 games .

Well TT is very good and mobile faction and Justicia outside of her nobidy move fast and take actions so must be verte dificult for hin score and kill models.

Also you can kill guild models easy with 10T. The missions are crucial because Justica's crew has a lot of problems scoring VP.

[Gheist]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Have you tried stone draining? Desper might help.

... ya steal 2 stones and make her stone for dmg the rest of the way...then she'll die next round...

[belorey]

2 hours ago, Adran said:

Is it always against the same player? If so, then it probably is a case that the other player is better than you. You need to work out what they do that wins them the game and work on stopping that. When I learnt, my opponent was a much better player than me, but I learnt their style over several years, and whilst they are a better player than me still, I now often come out on top against them because I have learnt how to stop them and their style.

100% agree 

Player skill > Masters/Keyword power > be lucky

Good player will win most games agains a worst player, even if he plays with a theorically worst keyword. And usually a good player can avoid much of the bad luck. Even if sometimes some flips can be very important, but they only will be relevant in a close game. 

[Assdex]

17 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Have you tried stone draining? Desper might help.

Tried , bu desper easy to kill but mb stun and steal stone be good. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Assdex said:

Tried , bu desper easy to kill but mb stun and steal stone be good. 

I use crooligans for it which is a bit different, but if you can go last and then first, you can sometimes leap in, steal stones, then steal stones, leap away. Can make a big swing!

And of course the other way to drain stones is to keep making him use them (such as by hitting him).

[Assdex]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:30 PM, belorey said:

100% agree 

Player skill > Masters/Keyword power > be lucky

Good player will win most games agains a worst player, even if he plays with a theorically worst keyword. And usually a good player can avoid much of the bad luck. Even if sometimes some flips can be very important, but they only will be relevant in a close game. 

I won him all his master except lj

[Assdex]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:32 PM, Adran said:

The next set of questions are

Is it always against the same player? If so, then it probably is a case that the other player is better than you. You need to work out what they do that wins them the game and work on stopping that. When I learnt, my opponent was a much better player than me, but I learnt their style over several years, and whilst they are a better player than me still, I now often come out on top against them because I have learnt how to stop them and their style.  If Its against a range of players then we go to the next question

Why are you losing the games? Very few games are lost because you had a model killed in turn 2 or 3. They are more typically because you had a plan that you couldn't impliment, or you focused on killing the wrong things, or even you were unlucky on the vital flips, and couldn't recover from that. ( A Marshal player drawing 3 severe Rams from Risk of Reason isn't something that you can easily plan against and it will give them a big advantage that turn. If the advantage gained from that was the reason why you lost that game then you have 2 options, accept it was largely luck and try the same tactics next time, or try and learn to play in a away that you can minimise the damage that is done to you with a big swing like that.)

There isn't a magic button that if you do X or Hire Y you will win. 

 

Most of the time turn 1 judge kill student from risk of reason. 

Turn 2 lj kill fuhatsu. 

He is good player, best guild in Russia now , but we play against each other a lot and only his lj i can't beat.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

16 minutes ago, Assdex said:

I won him all his master except lj

I would say it’s a play-style issue then. I’d warrant that whatever strategies you favor are strong into the other masters and weak into LJ. LJ could also be your opponent’s “gloves off” master, so their skill level or play-style with her could be very different than with other masters. Like Adran said, focus on why he wins and try to incorporate models and strategies that will counteract it.

[Assdex]

3 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

I would say it’s a play-style issue then. I’d warrant that whatever strategies you favor are strong into the other masters and weak into LJ. LJ could also be your opponent’s “gloves off” master, so their skill level or play-style with her could be very different than with other masters. Like Adran said, focus on why he wins and try to incorporate models and strategies that will counteract it.

On her he is extremely lucky 🤣🤣🤣

But most of the time its all about I can't stop her to kill my backline , and don't know how push his backline.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

34 minutes ago, Assdex said:

On her he is extremely lucky 🤣🤣🤣

But most of the time its all about I can't stop her to kill my backline , and don't know how push his backline.

Dawn Serpent presents a strong independent model that LJ has to deal with or it is in the backline. Yasunori is another option for pushing the backline if not dealt with quickly, bonus (or negative maybe) in that Yas forces a late LJ activation if the opponent wants to ensure a kill. Minako has a good chance of being ignored, I doubt LJ wants to be hit by irreducible damage. I feel like you’d need two of these for redundancy sake to keep a lucky kill from stopping a backline push.

In regards to just stopping LJ, Ohaguro is a bit of a counter-pick imo. Blanks resistance trigger, can flicker to help cheat severe damage, and stops soulstone damage reduction. Should at least give the opponent some reservations about sensing LJ straight to the backline.

[NoisyAssassin]

I think this is the first time I've seen someone actually recommend Yas post-nerf!

[Gheist]

I still think you two should get on vassal and record a game

that way we can see whats going on, maybe he is just that good

[Adran]

11 hours ago, Assdex said:

On her he is extremely lucky 🤣🤣🤣

But most of the time its all about I can't stop her to kill my backline , and don't know how push his backline.

Then I have 2 suggestions. 

Curse his deck to remove his luck. 

12 hours ago, Assdex said:

Most of the time turn 1 judge kill student from risk of reason. 

I mean that's fairly ridiculous, getting the trigger and revealing 3most of the time on the first turn. Get cursing that deck! (if I tried that then I think I'd leave the judge on 1 wound more often than I was able to kill an aspiring student). 

You can try hiding your students a bit more. There probably shouldn't be too many LOS that reach from 1 deployment to another, and whilst I know the judge can walk before they do that you can normally find something to hide behind. (Unless that's part of the problem, you are playing with very open boards. It will certainly power up The risk of reason, and the Lone marshal by having lots of open sight lines)

 

Make a plan where you can still win whilst he kills your back line.

Hire models that can survive a turn of Lady Justice. (less easy).  Focus your killing on the models he uses to score. 

 

There may not be an easy way to answer this, but in general I don't think you are losing "because" Justice kills your back line. That may well by symptomatic of why you are losing, but its rarely the real reason. You need to look critically at the games and see where you made mistakes. Why aren't you scoring points? I can't tell from what you say why you are losing, and therefore what you need to change.  

I used to win games last edition despite not having any models left because I put them in places they could die, but also places where killing them  meant my opponent was out of position. I had 1 game facing Sonnia where I lost everything, all I killed was Franciso, and Sonnia summoned 2 witchlings, so she still had 50ss worth of crew at the end of the game. But it wasn't until the last activation of turn 5 that she was able to reach the centre line with any of her models and flip any of the turf war markers that I flipped turns 1 and 2 as I rushed into him. Marcus charged his deployment zone 1 and was able to kill Fransico turn 2, but shortly dies himself. The Blessed and the Cerberus reached his deployment turn 2 and tied up his crew some more whilst my slower parts of the crew reached there turn 3. So I won because I caused the fight to be in the part of the board that he couldn't score in.  I could probably have won the fight if it happened in the middle of the board because I would have had more support for my crew, and not been hitting piecemeal, but then he would have been able to score victory points with spare actions and I may well have lost the game. 

It could be that your opponent is using Justice in a similar manner, and you are trying to fight her in part of the board where you can't score. If that's the case you need to focus on scoring your points, and denying the opponents. Your crew is there to allow you to do that, and if they can do so by dying to lady justice to allow something else to score, then its fine to let them die. 

 

[Assdex]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

Then I have 2 suggestions. 

Curse his deck to remove his luck. 

I mean that's fairly ridiculous, getting the trigger and revealing 3most of the time on the first turn. Get cursing that deck! (if I tried that then I think I'd leave the judge on 1 wound more often than I was able to kill an aspiring student). 

You can try hiding your students a bit more. There probably shouldn't be too many LOS that reach from 1 deployment to another, and whilst I know the judge can walk before they do that you can normally find something to hide behind. (Unless that's part of the problem, you are playing with very open boards. It will certainly power up The risk of reason, and the Lone marshal by having lots of open sight lines)

 

Make a plan where you can still win whilst he kills your back line.

Hire models that can survive a turn of Lady Justice. (less easy).  Focus your killing on the models he uses to score. 

 

There may not be an easy way to answer this, but in general I don't think you are losing "because" Justice kills your back line. That may well by symptomatic of why you are losing, but its rarely the real reason. You need to look critically at the games and see where you made mistakes. Why aren't you scoring points? I can't tell from what you say why you are losing, and therefore what you need to change.  

I used to win games last edition despite not having any models left because I put them in places they could die, but also places where killing them  meant my opponent was out of position. I had 1 game facing Sonnia where I lost everything, all I killed was Franciso, and Sonnia summoned 2 witchlings, so she still had 50ss worth of crew at the end of the game. But it wasn't until the last activation of turn 5 that she was able to reach the centre line with any of her models and flip any of the turf war markers that I flipped turns 1 and 2 as I rushed into him. Marcus charged his deployment zone 1 and was able to kill Fransico turn 2, but shortly dies himself. The Blessed and the Cerberus reached his deployment turn 2 and tied up his crew some more whilst my slower parts of the crew reached there turn 3. So I won because I caused the fight to be in the part of the board that he couldn't score in.  I could probably have won the fight if it happened in the middle of the board because I would have had more support for my crew, and not been hitting piecemeal, but then he would have been able to score victory points with spare actions and I may well have lost the game. 

It could be that your opponent is using Justice in a similar manner, and you are trying to fight her in part of the board where you can't score. If that's the case you need to focus on scoring your points, and denying the opponents. Your crew is there to allow you to do that, and if they can do so by dying to lady justice to allow something else to score, then its fine to let them die. 

 

Yea i analysis my games and most of time all about resources . I spend a lot fo nothing. And him just kill my models and score.

Last game i hide both student , but he got 3 severe rams .

We all call him lucky )))

About serpent mb , gonna try something new , thanks, sry for bad English.

I found effigy and wanyudo last tournament. Think will find something new

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

16 hours ago, NoisyAssassin said:

I think this is the first time I've seen someone actually recommend Yas post-nerf!

Recommend in general… no. Recommend as a replacement for Desper in OPs list to push and kill/displace backline models and not die to LJ in 1 activation… yes. Yas is niche post-nerf and is hard to recommend w/o foreknowledge of opponent/pool.

[Gheist]

I find him very easy to over extend, and he is no as tanky as the card implies somehow.

He is Premium as a backline disruptor, but sadly all those HTW models really don't fear min 2 DMG

[Da Git]

Yeah, killing a student from risk of reason is insanely lucky. Flipping a 5+ crows, then 3 more crows... I'd almost be wanting to check his deck or at least demand a reshuffle!

Most people usually recommend swapping crews, but in this case, I think you could try swapping decks?

 

[Assdex]

16 hours ago, Gheist said:

I find him very easy to over extend, and he is no as tanky as the card implies somehow.

He is Premium as a backline disruptor, but sadly all those HTW models really don't fear min 2 DMG

Without onslaught he can't kill domador