lady j How to deal with Lady J

[Assdex]

Hi guys . After a lot of defeat from LJ , wanna ask how to win her.

I played shen against her but anyway she leap and kill all backline. 

Need some tips what model/tactics against her.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

Samurai w/ Silent Protector does good work. Ranged attack vs Df works best to put damage on her and the Take the Hit can help protect support/tech picks.

Fuhatsu would be the more offensive oriented option.

[Morgan Vening]

Is she being brought in as Leader or a secondary?

One thing I found when facing models like her (Nekima was the big one) in the previous edition, was sometimes, you just need to ignore them. Concentrate on killing the things that can score the opponent points, score as many points as you can, spread out to make them waste actions, and take things that she can't just obliterate (H2K is good for that, as is Armor and Soulstone prevent).

Leap on untitled J makes this more a problem, as you can't just tie her up. But one thing I've learnt, is fixating on killing models that take way more resources to do than just letting them do their thing, is just a bad idea.

In 2nd Ed, I had my opponent devote Von Schill, a Drachentrooper (under it's original name), and another Freikorps, spend 3 turns trying to kill Lady J. I spent soulstones like water, two cards a turn on Juggernaut, and it was just a mess for him. He still won, but only because I'm just a terrible player.

[Gheist]

8 hours ago, Assdex said:

Hi guys . After a lot of defeat from LJ , wanna ask how to win her.

I played shen against her but anyway she leap and kill all backline. 

Need some tips what model/tactics against her.

Spread your Backline out or go heavy on versatiles, like samurai, fuhatsu, and if you attack her try to get as much irreducible dmg from shen as you can. Those Lady Justice Players rely heavily on soulstones to keep her alife.

Give Shenlong distracted +3 or higher (via the aspiring students) and than give Lady J distracted with shens tactical, she can't do anything about it on herself, so she will either do nothing that turn or burn 3 Stones, which she cannot afford to.

If you use concentrate, give yourself chi tokens to beef your defense to 7, so you can at least block 1 of her attacks by cheating in a 13 , 2 if you are lucky, also if you concentrate for focus she can take it all away.

Take 2 Wandering Rivermonks with trained ninja and get all the points, she can't effectively hunt them both down.

It gets shitty if your opponent takes the Pale Rider and the lone Marshal, because that firepower shreds your crew soooo fast.

Not the best Matchup for Shen i think

 

[Assdex]

57 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Is she being brought in as Leader or a secondary?

One thing I found when facing models like her (Nekima was the big one) in the previous edition, was sometimes, you just need to ignore them. Concentrate on killing the things that can score the opponent points, score as many points as you can, spread out to make them waste actions, and take things that she can't just obliterate (H2K is good for that, as is Armor and Soulstone prevent).

Leap on untitled J makes this more a problem, as you can't just tie her up. But one thing I've learnt, is fixating on killing models that take way more resources to do than just letting them do their thing, is just a bad idea.

In 2nd Ed, I had my opponent devote Von Schill, a Drachentrooper (under it's original name), and another Freikorps, spend 3 turns trying to kill Lady J. I spent soulstones like water, two cards a turn on Juggernaut, and it was just a mess for him. He still won, but only because I'm just a terrible player.

Most of the time play against this

[Assdex]

19 minutes ago, Gheist said:

Spread your Backline out or go heavy on versatiles, like samurai, fuhatsu, and if you attack her try to get as much irreducible dmg from shen as you can. Those Lady Justice Players rely heavily on soulstones to keep her alife.

Give Shenlong distracted +3 or higher (via the aspiring students) and than give Lady J distracted with shens tactical, she can't do anything about it on herself, so she will either do nothing that turn or burn 3 Stones, which she cannot afford to.

If you use concentrate, give yourself chi tokens to beef your defense to 7, so you can at least block 1 of her attacks by cheating in a 13 , 2 if you are lucky, also if you concentrate for focus she can take it all away.

Take 2 Wandering Rivermonks with trained ninja and get all the points, she can't effectively hunt them both down.

It gets shitty if your opponent takes the Pale Rider and the lone Marshal, because that firepower shreds your crew soooo fast.

Not the best Matchup for Shen i think

 

She can't have any distract. I transfer stun it help a bit.

Dunno wo can be good pick against her.

[Adran]

9 hours ago, Assdex said:

Hi guys . After a lot of defeat from LJ , wanna ask how to win her.

I played shen against her but anyway she leap and kill all backline. 

Need some tips what model/tactics against her.

Short answer, Play the game. You can't easily stop Justice killing things. Try and make it costly in time and effort for her to kill things (either by spreading out, or by hiring tougher models) and spend your time scoring points. Make a plan that isn't reliant on any one model living, because if your whole plan relies on that model, then she ought to kill that model ASAP. 

You can try and plan to kill her, but it shouldn't be your only plan because she can run and hide if she wants. 

She isn't great at getting through Armour. 

[Gheist]

36 minutes ago, Assdex said:

She can't have any distract. I transfer stun it help a bit.

Dunno wo can be good pick against her.

forgot that sorry, seemed like a splendid idea. i stand by everything else i said nevertheless

 

[belorey]

Against Justice just go for your VP and spread so she need to spend AP moving and not attacking. After that, try to attack her with ,  and  so you keep distance and she cannot use her defensive trigger.

[Assdex]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Short answer, Play the game. You can't easily stop Justice killing things. Try and make it costly in time and effort for her to kill things (either by spreading out, or by hiring tougher models) and spend your time scoring points. Make a plan that isn't reliant on any one model living, because if your whole plan relies on that model, then she ought to kill that model ASAP. 

You can try and plan to kill her, but it shouldn't be your only plan because she can run and hide if she wants. 

She isn't great at getting through Armour. 

Armour yea but still easy kill samurai. Mb take 2 of them for ignore her armour

[Gheist]

I still feel like you should not lose every game, like any symbols of authority should be yours by right.

what lineup do you usually bring?

5 hours ago, Assdex said:

Dunno wo can be good pick against her.

as far as my experience goes, as thunders player i would take Yan Lo for the fight intensive Missions and ShenLong or McCabe for more Scheme Marker Heavy pools and just don't really engage her

Jacob Lynch is depended on how smart your opponent is, you can take a samurai with silent protector and if lady justice gets into your bubble she dies pretty much everytime. Sadly since the nerf of trained ninja you are pretty prone to getting shot in the face with lynch, and her wp 7 can deny you some dmg.

Misaki is extremely horrible against LJ because Jury and Death Marshal recruiter will destroy you. And Misaki staying on the table the whole time is no fun at all.

i have no idea how Youko or Asami will work, guess asami might do well in ley lines, but i don't play those, as well as mei feng, not sure if she's a match for justice ( i guess not)

[Assdex]

6 hours ago, Gheist said:

I still feel like you should not lose every game, like any symbols of authority should be yours by right.

what lineup do you usually bring?

as far as my experience goes, as thunders player i would take Yan Lo for the fight intensive Missions and ShenLong or McCabe for more Scheme Marker Heavy pools and just don't really engage her

Jacob Lynch is depended on how smart your opponent is, you can take a samurai with silent protector and if lady justice gets into your bubble she dies pretty much everytime. Sadly since the nerf of trained ninja you are pretty prone to getting shot in the face with lynch, and her wp 7 can deny you some dmg.

Misaki is extremely horrible against LJ because Jury and Death Marshal recruiter will destroy you. And Misaki staying on the table the whole time is no fun at all.

i have no idea how Youko or Asami will work, guess asami might do well in ley lines, but i don't play those, as well as mei feng, not sure if she's a match for justice ( i guess not)

 

[Gheist]

Okay several things,

I wouldn't do Silent Protector on Charm Warder only for the hard to kill, he isn't tanky enough ---> put on Samurai, LJ can't put a samurai down if he has hard to kill and you heal him up proper. Put the Low River Monk next to him

I would not take 2 Low River Monks, because they are 1 hit and you do not need 2 of them, they don't get you points (TBH i often play without them)

I am not sure why you would take Desper laRaux in this keyword, you get two wandering river monks instead. Wandering river monks are underpriced in my opinion.

and you don't use trained Ninja, it really helps with protecting scheme relevant minions

Like this:

New Shenlong Crew (Ten Thunders)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Shenlong
Totem(s):
  Aspiring Student
  Aspiring Student 2
Hires:
  Sensei Yu
  Samurai
    Silent Protector
  Wandering River Monk
    Trained Ninja
  Wandering River Monk 2
    Trained Ninja
  Low River Monk
 

I know it's debatable but i am not sold on fuhatsu against Lj because he really suffers against Hard to wound targets.

i am also not sure if the harm warder is worth it vs LJ because they have such high willpower values.

You could actually take a third wandering river monk, he then can't really stop you from scoring with that mobility.

anyway, if you lose again, LJ is stupid, take the moral victory

[Assdex]

54 minutes ago, Gheist said:

Okay several things,

I wouldn't do Silent Protector on Charm Warder only for the hard to kill, he isn't tanky enough ---> put on Samurai, LJ can't put a samurai down if he has hard to kill and you heal him up proper. Put the Low River Monk next to him

I would not take 2 Low River Monks, because they are 1 hit and you do not need 2 of them, they don't get you points (TBH i often play without them)

I am not sure why you would take Desper laRaux in this keyword, you get two wandering river monks instead. Wandering river monks are underpriced in my opinion.

and you don't use trained Ninja, it really helps with protecting scheme relevant minions

Like this:

New Shenlong Crew (Ten Thunders)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Shenlong
Totem(s):
  Aspiring Student
  Aspiring Student 2
Hires:
  Sensei Yu
  Samurai
    Silent Protector
  Wandering River Monk
    Trained Ninja
  Wandering River Monk 2
    Trained Ninja
  Low River Monk
 

I know it's debatable but i am not sold on fuhatsu against Lj because he really suffers against Hard to wound targets.

i am also not sure if the harm warder is worth it vs LJ because they have such high willpower values.

You could actually take a third wandering river monk, he then can't really stop you from scoring with that mobility.

anyway, if you lose again, LJ is stupid, take the moral victory

Lj easy kill samurai. Even with htk 3 hits and he ded.

About wander tried them , all the time 1 random atack and he ded

[regleant]

In my games against Lady J, I'm typically tabled by Turn 3. I've tried Misaki, Asami, and even Mei Feng. Not much I can do when I can't collect points after Turn 3. So good luck to the OP!

[Adran]

21 hours ago, Assdex said:

Armour yea but still easy kill samurai. Mb take 2 of them for ignore her armour

Can I ask how she is easily killing Samurai? they are 8 wounds so she is effectively a 1/2/3 attack against them, even with the positive damage from not charging she is slightly lucky to kill them in 1 activation  (I'd expect it 60-75% of the time thanks to probably getting a Critical strike, but generally using most of your hand for the turn). Yes, she can get 4 attacks using a stone and is at a +2 on the stat. 

42 minutes ago, Assdex said:

Lj easy kill samurai. Even with htk 3 hits and he ded.

About wander tried them , all the time 1 random atack and he ded

If your opponent is easily killing an 8 wound Armour +2 model in 3 hits even when they have hard to kill, then I have no answer. She would be killing basically anything in that sort of attack, and likewise if they are consistently killing a 5 wound model in 1 random attack, then they have much better luck that I have, so I don't know how to help, other than say, focus on scoring points. Build a plan with redundancy so you can survive the death of your models. 

 

 

[Morgan Vening]

47 minutes ago, Assdex said:

Lj easy kill samurai. Even with htk 3 hits and he ded.

About wander tried them , all the time 1 random atack and he ded

How?

Unless your opponent has multiple severes in hand, and/or is willing to spend a lot of Soulstones on Rams, it's going to take at least three hits to get him down to H2K. With Sammie's Armor, she's down to a 1/2/3 damage profile with Crit Strike, and needs 7 damage to hit H2K. And that's assuming she doesn't miss at all. Granted, she shouldn't miss more than 1/3 the time on initial flip, but that's still one third of AP where she'll need to use one of those severes to connect.

I understand that sometimes your opponent can get lucky and you get worst case situation, but if a Samurai isn't standing up to Lady J for at least the majority of two of her activations in most games, that's well outside the boundaries of normal expectation.

EDIT - Dang it, @Adran, I was doing math and you ninja'd me!

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

Take two samurai w/ silent protector and call it a day maybe? She can’t possibly kill both, and all you need is one to take the hit for the other when at 1 health. If you include juggernaut and the in crew healing, she will take min 2 turns to kill one. Could possibly take 3 turns depending on flips and your management of take the hit.

Favoring mobility and scheme-based play is the probably the better option, but will be more difficult because of the discipline needed. Very easy to get dragged into unfavorably trading models.

[Assdex]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Can I ask how she is easily killing Samurai? they are 8 wounds so she is effectively a 1/2/3 attack against them, even with the positive damage from not charging she is slightly lucky to kill them in 1 activation  (I'd expect it 60-75% of the time thanks to probably getting a Critical strike, but generally using most of your hand for the turn). Yes, she can get 4 attacks using a stone and is at a +2 on the stat. 

If your opponent is easily killing an 8 wound Armour +2 model in 3 hits even when they have hard to kill, then I have no answer. She would be killing basically anything in that sort of attack, and likewise if they are consistently killing a 5 wound model in 1 random attack, then they have much better luck that I have, so I don't know how to help, other than say, focus on scoring points. Build a plan with redundancy so you can survive the death of your models. 

 

 

Last game he got 3 severe with ram risk of reason. and yea 1/2/3 , but 2/3/4 with 1 crit and 3/4/5 with double crit. 6 vs 4 and pos on dmg . 

[Assdex]

1 hour ago, Morgan Vening said:

How?

Unless your opponent has multiple severes in hand, and/or is willing to spend a lot of Soulstones on Rams, it's going to take at least three hits to get him down to H2K. With Sammie's Armor, she's down to a 1/2/3 damage profile with Crit Strike, and needs 7 damage to hit H2K. And that's assuming she doesn't miss at all. Granted, she shouldn't miss more than 1/3 the time on initial flip, but that's still one third of AP where she'll need to use one of those severes to connect.

I understand that sometimes your opponent can get lucky and you get worst case situation, but if a Samurai isn't standing up to Lady J for at least the majority of two of her activations in most games, that's well outside the boundaries of normal expectation.

EDIT - Dang it, @Adran, I was doing math and you ninja'd me!

lone marshal 1 shot with focus all the time. 

[Adran]

13 hours ago, Assdex said:

lone marshal 1 shot with focus all the time. 

I probably wouldn't describe that as 1 random attack ( assuming the rider had to move to see you and shoot), but at least that is an easy answer to solve. Cheat higher. Even if you end up tied the Marshall can't cheat damage. Sure, eventually it will get the kill but if it spends all its time focusing and chasing you you can score during that time. 

 

[Gheist]

Yeah sorry i am with them on the whole theme, i nearly never lose a samurai in any game

Your wandering River Monks are Stat 7 DF with Chi Token have Stealth and Butterfly Jump, they are super hard to put down.

if you eat severe DMG thats bad luck but if you hide them properly, you opponent shouldn't get to them easily.  Maybe you should use MORE TERRAIN, if you do 40% of the map as suggested there are so many places to hide a ht 2 30mm Model.

You are describing your matches as follows:

Your opponent always has initiative, always gets his attacks in first. Your opponent alway hits. always has cheatable flips, always has Rams as a trigger and always can cheat in Severe to kill all your Models End of Round 2.

That never happens to me, so i guess you are much more unlucky than i am, or we are bending the truth at this point to some degree

Good luck nevertheless!

 

[belorey]

So what strategi and schemes are for the game? And what tipe of deployment?

[Assdex]

1 hour ago, belorey said:

So what strategi and schemes are for the game? And what tipe of deployment?

Cause not about one game . I played against her a lot and lose last 5 games .

[Maniacal_cackle]

Have you tried stone draining? Desper might help.