Marcus - Alpha- Thoughts?

[Vaylos]

 

I think that between all of the defensive tech that can be put on this model, and the fact that he gives himself cover, this might be the single hardest model to remove from the table in the game while running in Neverborn.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Thatguy]

Seems like he'll be a beast(hehe get it?) against minion heavy crews. Intimidating Roar can push something 6" out of position and slow it, which on top of Wilds of Malifaux is going to make getting back in position very difficult.

[SEV]

4/6/8 is quite achievable too especially with the help of some soulstone! With Leap you have a decent threat range. 

Pack leader give you a big incentive to hire Initiate and  Myranda. 

[Raising]

you cant hire beasts without paying extra...

the. 4/6/8 looks impresive but the initiates can do 4/5/6 just as easy.

losing acomplice is a thing. ..

 

i think he fill the role of a beater instead of suporting 3/4 models every turn who is suporting him?

 

i ' ll give it a try but i'm not sure what kind of game will make this version better

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4/6/8 was the first thing that got me super excited (since we have easy access to positives).

But... This model has more trouble getting severe than Cojo or Myranda, so not sure how often it'll actually work out. Worth testing for sure.

I like that the upgrades are now passive, and you can happily make 2-3 'packs' of beasts if you wish (each powered by an order initiate or marcus or myranda). Or you can just focus on charging up Marcus and focus on OOK & versatile synergies.

BBS seem great with this marcus, because he LOVES focus. So the BBS/Vasilisa/Doll trick is worth testing with him.

Mysterious Emissary loves Marcus' aura, since now enemies are going to always be in severe (and Marcus has a built in push). Mysterious Emissary seems like the first versatile to test with him for sure.

So that's two builds that are worth testing: the 'couple packs of beasts' builds, and the 'all-in on marcus is one scary MFer' build.

[Maniacal_cackle]

AND HE HAS THE BEAST TAG SO HIS CREW CAN SHENANIGAN HIM!!!!

[Maniacal_cackle]

So... Upgrade calculations for turn 1...

• 2 from marcus
• 2 from myranda
• 2 per initiate...

So if you want 6 upgrades in your crew turn 1, then marcus + myranda + initiate is enough to hit 6 (and can hit 9 the following turn if you wish).

So I'd say this crew is going to cap out on upgrades pretty fast, and one initiate + Myranda may be the standard.

[Devious Carnival]

I'm  disappointed he lost the Beastmaster ability. Even if it's only a 1 soul stone tax to bring in an OOK beast now it still feels bad, as that's one of the things I like about playing him in NB (although I acknowledge I still have Myranda to shapeshift). With all that said, I like the passive upgrade mechanic and I really like that they didn't make it an aura around him, so you can spread your "packs" across the board. I also really like that he has the most bizarre defensive tech I've ever read on a card (permanent cover by virtue of the fact that he's constantly surrounded by weedy undergrowth). Overall I'm excited to get him on the table, and this may finally be the excuse I needed to get the Slate Ridge box so I'll have the bears to bring in instead of my NB beasts

[Raising]

Yeah. having beast on itself is big. Enable a lot of interactions.

heal and charges(without trigers )from miranda

movement from initiates

extra atacks with paul.

 

myranda 1st turn should. use its bonus to get a free mutation and then heal marcus or an initiate to make him cycle a mutation and asign it to himself or other model(like jakalope. as I feel jakalope will be near to marcus on its assaults getting stronger each turn

 

 

[Raising]

what I see is that having a crew with all adaptative evolution gets stronger since you can use it with every model once a turn "for free" if you can chain the. 4" range for pack leader.

 

Order initiates/marcus/miranda starting a activation with 2 upgrades can use both for triggers . giving one to an ally and then getting one back as a bonus. Still you are not drawing cards wich limits how many things you want to attack each turn. and you are spending marcus and miranda bonus on that instead of leaping or shapeshifting.(or compared with the other marcus bonus.moving 2/5 models 4/5" each)

 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think working too hard to set up upgrade shenanigans might be a bit of a trap.

Positioning in a game is so demanding, jumping through hoops to set upgrade chains is probably not worth it in my eyes.

The thing that I think will be awesome will be special deliveries. Need Marcus to gain wings? Have a Cerberus run across the table and discard the wings for onslaught.

That's serious value for not too much setup.

[Maniacal_cackle]

That said, there are a lot of pools where you basically want to mosh pit...

At that point the discarding the upgrades takes no setup. You're all in one pile together anyway.

Edit: for example, break the line as the attacker you can make two mosh pit points on the board.

EDIT2: omg, Alpha seems insane on BTL. The severe and anti place aura, and he can push people off guarding markers with his 1" push (unless they have 2" engage).

[Raising]

the anti place aura may be huge. i think is the most unique thing he have

 

ask tara where does she want to summon stuff. or any sumoner that does in contact with itself

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Raising said:

the anti place aura may be huge. i think is the most unique thing he have

 

ask tara where does she want to summon stuff. or any sumoner that does in contact with itself

 

Yeah, it also makes it super awkward to attack him. Incorporeal and unimpeded are the main things that can ignore his severe terrain, flight doesn't fully work xD

[Morgan Vening]

13 hours ago, Raising said:

the. 4/6/8 looks impresive but the initiates can do 4/5/6 just as easy.

Not quite just as easy. For Order Initiates, you need to burn a Mutation or have a high Mask. With Marcus2, you can burn a soulstone. Expensive, but it is another option. 

[Raising]

24 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Not quite just as easy. For Order Initiates, you need to burn a Mutation or have a high Mask. With Marcus2, you can burn a soulstone. Expensive, but it is another option. 

true. is just the way i play them in normal marcus. they burn 2 mutations a turn and recover one suported by marcus to be both 2" appart and next to the targets (and a jakalope too with armor wanting to be atacked to add one extra mutation to the mix( to reach 4 )

Edit: I dont get why the once per activation limitation  on the pack leader having the one per turn on the reciving end

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

7 minutes ago, Raising said:

true. is just the way i play them in normal marcus. they burn 2 mutations a turn and recover one suported by marcus to be both 2" appart and next to the targets (and a jakalope too with armor wanting to be atacked to add one extra mutation to the mix( to reach 4 )

Edit: I dont get why the once per activation limitation  on the pack leader having the one per turn on the reciving end

 

Once per turn is per model receiving it.

Once per activation is total, I think.

Thus Myranda cannot hand out two upgrades on her activation.

[Raising]

i understand. i just think it shouldnt have that limitation. 

[Raising]

the no place aura prevents summoners. for example jhony english can use models completely in the aura as target for summoning having some care about the blind spot your own model creates

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

13 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Once per turn is per model receiving it.

Once per activation is total, I think.

Thus Myranda cannot hand out two upgrades on her activation.

I think Once per Activation is per model in this case since the friendly model is the one resolving the effect of Pack Leader not Marcus, or at least that is how it reads to me absent a “this model” in Pack Leader.

Though maybe that interpretation is too simplified?

Edited August 22, 2021 by PiersonsMuppeteer

[Raising]

if is one per activation and midel miranda can "generate" 3 mutations on its activation making 2 other beasts cicle theirs

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

1 hour ago, Raising said:

if is one per activation and midel miranda can "generate" 3 mutations on its activation making 2 other beasts cicle theirs

Ah… that does seem a bit over the top, but the crew would be pretty static T1 exploiting it. Eh, I think I’d like it to be total once per activation, but i think there might wiggle room in the way it is written that someone can try and claim once per model. Seems like at least half the new titles so far have clarity issues in one ability or action.

[Raising]

 I start thinking about the non place aura and how many relevant stuff it hinders hard.

Take notice is not only place efects but also replace effects since the first part of the replace effect is placing the new model. Whats the resolution if you have to replace a model but you can't?

Mey feng crew, ride the rails.
coryphee duet
ulix replacing pigs
nephlims getting upgraded
english ivan summoning on models completely within the area
any place next to a token, like dashel for summoning, euripides shatering surprise, misaky shadows, reva pyres, and random ressers...
Leveticus demise
Tara placing stuff in your face if she place fast on any of your ally and you can move marcus there, you get to keep that fast.
Seamus displacement with its totem.
Any "take the hit" skill

just to name a few. is not just defensive tech.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Raising said:

 I start thinking about the non place aura and how many relevant stuff it hinders hard.

Take notice is not only place efects but also replace effects since the first part of the replace effect is placing the new model. Whats the resolution if you have to replace a model but you can't?

Mey feng crew, ride the rails.
coryphee duet
ulix replacing pigs
nephlims getting upgraded
english ivan summoning on models completely within the area
any place next to a token, like dashel for summoning, euripides shatering surprise, misaky shadows, reva pyres, and random ressers...
Leveticus demise
Tara placing stuff in your face if she place fast on any of your ally and you can move marcus there, you get to keep that fast.
Seamus displacement with its totem.
Any "take the hit" skill

just to name a few. is not just defensive tech.

 

Yup, see all the effects on Anna Lovelace or arik. People pay huge stones for that effect, and Marcus just gets mini gravity well!

[extremor]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:03 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

So... Upgrade calculations for turn 1...

• 2 from marcus
• 2 from myranda
• 2 per initiate...

So if you want 6 upgrades in your crew turn 1, then marcus + myranda + initiate is enough to hit 6 (and can hit 9 the following turn if you wish).

So I'd say this crew is going to cap out on upgrades pretty fast, and one initiate + Myranda may be the standard.

Don’t get the 2 from Myranda… she gets one for free. But where does the second one come from? Even if she did get one from Marcus/Initiate she only gets one for free. 
 

I think I like Marcus running around in little packs. And Initiates I already love. 
BUT I’m afraid that his Neverborn side will be unnecessary to the max. Adaptive Evolution seems to be the key and with taxed in beasts… well…