Tara and 33

[Morgan Vening]

2 minutes ago, Adran said:

For Tara to delay an activation she has to end a condition on the model. The pine box gives distracted +1, so the model does have a conditon to end, but it generally means she can only delay it 1 activation

To get 33 to charge a model in the deployment in the first activation Tara has to bury 33, so she can't bury the Scion.

These are all issues that you can work around, but every time you add in a work around, you also give the opponent  more time to counter.  So if you bury the Scion before the 33 run, then you allow the enemy to activate something which may block the charge you want. 

Yeah, it seems like a potent capability, and that model chosen is probably dead, but it's so many moving parts, is it going to be worth the effort?

Sure, my Master/key model is isolated/dead in your DZ, but how many of your models have you locked up Turn 1 in doing so? Tara, 33, at least one other, if not multiple models to provide the beating? So you're starting T2 with a good portion of your crew not having advanced up.

In a few scheme/strat pools it might work, but in a lot of others, you're potentially conceeding a lot of VP to the opponent, and possibly skipping a lot of opportunity to secure your own.

[Fingalen]

10 minutes ago, Adran said:

For Tara to delay an activation she has to end a condition on the model. The pine box gives distracted +1, so the model does have a conditon to end, but it generally means she can only delay it 1 activation

To get 33 to charge a model in the deployment in the first activation Tara has to bury 33, so she can't bury the Scion.

These are all issues that you can work around, but every time you add in a work around, you also give the opponent  more time to counter.  So if you bury the Scion before the 33 run, then you allow the enemy to activate something which may block the charge you want. 

It is not necessary to bury 33 to get it into your opponents (as was said above), so Tara can easily bury Scion. And Scion is the only one who needs the target buried, so Distracted could be enough (if not, attackers can still stutter time the victim for fast).

[Axelst]

It should also be remembered that most of Tara's models can attack buried models when charging so you can still advance while beating buried stuff.

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, malyzubor said:

It is not necessary to bury 33 to get it into your opponents (as was said above), so Tara can easily bury Scion. And Scion is the only one who needs the target buried, so Distracted could be enough (if not, attackers can still stutter time the victim for fast).

In that version, you have to activate both 33 and Tara to get the enemy model buried. 

I thought you were talking about the version where you just activate Tara to get 33 to charge in the first activation (since that was what you quoted was talking about) and will still have 33 to activate later. 

 

[Fingalen]

14 minutes ago, Adran said:

In that version, you have to activate both 33 and Tara to get the enemy model buried. 

I thought you were talking about the version where you just activate Tara to get 33 to charge in the first activation (since that was what you quoted was talking about) and will still have 33 to activate later. 

 

I think it is still insanely quick and there is not much you can do to stop it (apart from physically blocking the critical target. Def techs like manipulative, disguised etc. can slow the marshall down by taking his action, but he eventually gets through).

It is difficult to say if it is worth the spend the whole turn to delete your opponent’s vital model, but I believe Obliteration keyword is still very mobile to catch up with scoring.

[ShinChan]

4 minutes ago, malyzubor said:

I think it is still insanely quick and there is not much you can do to stop it (apart from physically blocking the critical target. Def techs like manipulative, disguised etc. can slow the marshall down by taking his action, but he eventually gets through).

It is difficult to say if it is worth the spend the whole turn to delete your opponent’s vital model, but I believe Obliteration keyword is still very mobile to catch up with scoring.

You only need 3 activations, which leaves you another 3-5 after you bury someone.

1. Hodgepodge to weary road 33
2. Tara to drop the echo marker and give fast to 33
3. Now 33 can easily get into the enemy's deployment zone and kidnap a model (if you have the card for it)

 

[Zebo]

In fact, you don't need the Emissary at all. 

Tara hits 33 with Rewind + Burn Out. 

Tara buries 33 with Stutter time and gets a couple of Pass Tokens. 

Tara unburies 33 with expedite (6+base= 7"), 33 places himself 2"+base with Two Places at Once (10") And takes a walk (16") 

Now, if Tara was at the edge of her own standard deployment, 33 is 6" Into enemy table half, ready to activate and move +charge up to 28" From your deployment, wich in standard means he could touch the other table edge. 

Tara still has one action to spend. Ahe could walk and unbury 33 even further, but also can do other things. 

[Azahul]

7 hours ago, Zebo said:

In fact, you don't need the Emissary at all. 

Tara hits 33 with Rewind + Burn Out. 

Tara buries 33 with Stutter time and gets a couple of Pass Tokens. 

Tara unburies 33 with expedite (6+base= 7"), 33 places himself 2"+base with Two Places at Once (10") And takes a walk (16") 

Now, if Tara was at the edge of her own standard deployment, 33 is 6" Into enemy table half, ready to activate and move +charge up to 28" From your deployment, wich in standard means he could touch the other table edge. 

Tara still has one action to spend. Ahe could walk and unbury 33 even further, but also can do other things. 

If you go just one step further this exact combo lets you get 33 into the opponent's deployment zone in just Tara's activation (Rewind, bury 33, walk forward, Expedite to unbury 33 with Two Places at Once getting 3ish inches of extra movement, then resolve the Charge action with Expedite, gets you a couple of inches into the enemy deployment zone).

[Hawkoon]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:32 PM, ShinChan said:

Emissary for deployment to deployment, even in corner (measured in Vassal) attack with 33, bury someone, then go back to your echo marker, close to your deployment zone. It seems brutal.

Size: 50 - Pool: 3
Leader:
  Tara
Totem(s):
  Karina
Hires:
  33
  Hodgepodge Emissary
  The Nothing Beast
  Talos
  Scion of the Void
  Prospector

Played aganist this exact list with Titania2 yesterday, and I have to say it was not fun... at all. Titania got buried by 33 the first activation of the first turn and there was nothing I could do about it since my opponent had a 13 on hand. Titania did practically nothing but tank attacks for the rest of the game. (I eventually gave up after turn 3)

I did not know about this "trick" and I have to say this is the first time in the 3 years i've been playing that I've really felt like "flipping the table" (was a vassal game so not technically possible). I don't mind being penalized for not knowing my opponents crew, but I don't really think knowing beforehand would change the NPE very much either. If anyone know a proper way to counter this (that doesn't involve cramming my crew together an entire game), I'm all ears.

[touchdown]

This is gathered from podcasts, but it sounds like the one counter is a strong alpha.

[admiralvorkraft]

Considering that alphas make for a terrible Malifaux experience for all concerned, I am worried about how the meta shakes out.

I don't have much sympathy for a Nekima player being on the receiving end of this garbage for once though...

[ShinChan]

4 hours ago, Hawkoon said:

Played aganist this exact list with Titania2 yesterday, and I have to say it was not fun... at all. Titania got buried by 33 the first activation of the first turn and there was nothing I could do about it since my opponent had a 13 on hand. Titania did practically nothing but tank attacks for the rest of the game. (I eventually gave up after turn 3)

I did not know about this "trick" and I have to say this is the first time in the 3 years i've been playing that I've really felt like "flipping the table" (was a vassal game so not technically possible). I don't mind being penalized for not knowing my opponents crew, but I don't really think knowing beforehand would change the NPE very much either. If anyone know a proper way to counter this (that doesn't involve cramming my crew together an entire game), I'm all ears.

Alpha the alpha! Otherwise take models with Take the Hit or Extended Reach are the first solutions that come to mind so far.

[Jordon]

It's also a 0" range so using terrain to limit how 33 can base you will be big. You can also bubble wrap your key models with chaff for a similar effect. You should have an activation or two before it's deployed. 

I also don't like these "all in" abilities like this or the recent Kaeris2 super bomb but hopefully they work themselves out once people become aware of how they work.

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 hours ago, Hawkoon said:

Played aganist this exact list with Titania2 yesterday, and I have to say it was not fun... at all. Titania got buried by 33 the first activation of the first turn and there was nothing I could do about it since my opponent had a 13 on hand. Titania did practically nothing but tank attacks for the rest of the game. (I eventually gave up after turn 3)

I did not know about this "trick" and I have to say this is the first time in the 3 years i've been playing that I've really felt like "flipping the table" (was a vassal game so not technically possible). I don't mind being penalized for not knowing my opponents crew, but I don't really think knowing beforehand would change the NPE very much either. If anyone know a proper way to counter this (that doesn't involve cramming my crew together an entire game), I'm all ears.

Do we know the rough range of these abilities?

Often the answer is "don't go within 20 inches of your opponents crew unless you're ready to start dying" for these types of crews.

Which I know isn't the most fun ever 

[Arlos896]

Tara uses rewind on 33 then buries them with bonus action. Walks 7" thanks to emissary, then expedites and unburies 33 6" from there. With base size and two places at once that's effectively another 3.5". Then finally 33 charges for another 6" putting the total to 22.5" threat on this 

[admiralvorkraft]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

Alpha the alpha! Otherwise take models with Take the Hit or Extended Reach are the first solutions that come to mind so far.

Honestly I'll be taking 33 just to take the teeth out of alpha strikes. Like, okay you set up your bomb, now it's buried and distracted. It's going to be slow in a minute once Aionus gets a charge in, hope you had a backup plan.

Because again, I want to play a five turn game, not one that's over halfway through turn two because Nekima ate my crew OR I got a lucky couple damage flips and deleted her before her second activation.

[touchdown]

4 minutes ago, Arlos896 said:

Tara uses rewind on 33 then buries them with bonus action. Walks 7" thanks to emissary, then expedites and unburies 33 6" from there. With base size and two places at once that's effectively another 3.5". Then finally 33 charges for another 6" putting the total to 22.5" threat on this 

Or don't unbury 33 with Tara and the range is ~17" from any Obliteration model with fast.

[Azahul]

6 minutes ago, Arlos896 said:

Tara uses rewind on 33 then buries them with bonus action. Walks 7" thanks to emissary, then expedites and unburies 33 6" from there. With base size and two places at once that's effectively another 3.5". Then finally 33 charges for another 6" putting the total to 22.5" threat on this 

I think you're missing one of 33's base sizes. You get one when they unbury from Expedite, then a second time when they place with Two Places at Once. So probably just shy of 25" all together.

[touchdown]

11 minutes ago, touchdown said:

Or don't unbury 33 with Tara and the range is ~17" from any Obliteration model with fast.

I said Obliteration but of course it's any model with fast. You could take a catalan rifleman + student of conflict, rifleman walks, bonus interacts, walks, student gives fast, 33 pops out and walks charges something 27" from the edge of deployment. That's enough to get something lined up against the back edge in standard.

[Hawkoon]

15 hours ago, ShinChan said:

Alpha the alpha! Otherwise take models with Take the Hit or Extended Reach are the first solutions that come to mind so far.

Yes, that is probably a good counter in some factions, but neverborn have 0 models with take the hit and only geryon with extended reach. Not knowing if you'll be up against Tara1 or Tara2 makes it a huge risk taking geryon ook. 

[admiralvorkraft]

So then position to mitigate the alpha.

Or take z2 and you automatically stop it.

[Burnin4tor]

Screening is the way, you got a key piece you can’t lose don’t put them at the very front of your forces. 33 has to charge in still and can’t charge through or over models so having something in the way should neuter it until you can shut it down properly.

[touchdown]

13 minutes ago, Burnin4tor said:

Screening is the way, you got a key piece you can’t lose don’t put them at the very front of your forces. 33 has to charge in still and can’t charge through or over models so having something in the way should neuter it until you can shut it down properly.

33 is incorporeal. You can only block by not giving space for the base

[RisingPhoenix]

Damn, well there's my Aionus fix on Tara 2.  I really like T2 and with Talos being buffed I think this crew is in a great spot.   Rewind might be the stupidest ability I've ever seen on a crew like this.  As far as I can tell it lasts forever as long as you're willing to get pinged?  And you can rewind to a location way back, bury, and unbury?  'kay.  This is a hit and run crew par excellance, and the only piece that isn't doing that is Talos, who is a beefy boy. 

Oh and Tara gets easy access to pass tokens haha.  QQ.  Maybe the Aionus fix all along was make his pass token generating ability a bonus action so he wasn't spamming it for an enormous pile of pass tokens every round. 

Bye Aionus, back to the box with you, cool model but I love this new list. 

[Burnin4tor]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:31 AM, touchdown said:

33 is incorporeal. You can only block by not giving space for the base

Awww damn serves me for not reading cards properly then!