Urgent issues for titles.

[Raising]

2 hours ago, ShinChan said:

Pistoleros becoming Death Marshalls with +1 to all stats that after killing someone they heal 4 and become Monster Hunters. Was this supposed to be intentional?

Edit: The fact that when the Monster Hunter kills someone, it gets replaced by a Monster Hunter, healing 2 and gaining Slow and Shielded +1, also seems quite weird and unnintentional.

why whould the new desth marshal keep the upgrade?

[Adran]

10 minutes ago, Raising said:

why whould the new desth marshal keep the upgrade?

Because it is a summon upgrade. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, ShinChan said:

Pistoleros becoming Death Marshalls with +1 to all stats that after killing someone they heal 4 and become Monster Hunters. Was this supposed to be intentional?

Edit: The fact that when the Monster Hunter kills someone, it gets replaced by a Monster Hunter, healing 2 and gaining Slow and Shielded +1, also seems quite weird and unnintentional.

They also get the attach effects of the upgrades like a free attack xD

[Mycellanious]

The best model in Perdita's Keyword isn't in her Keyword and other facts that might surprise you at 5

[Maladroit]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:22 AM, ShinChan said:

Pistoleros becoming Death Marshalls with +1 to all stats that after killing someone they heal 4 and become Monster Hunters. Was this supposed to be intentional?

Edit: The fact that when the Monster Hunter kills someone, it gets replaced by a Monster Hunter, healing 2 and gaining Slow and Shielded +1, also seems quite weird and unnintentional.

Well the Death Marshal process does require a quite expensive OOK pick to make happen and then for them to hang around with each other - and you'd have to (Edit to fix) die then survive long enough to kill an opposing model to drive it through to the end of the process, so I guess it won't be common - I suspect that you'd really, really have to work at it to get that outcome. If so you probably deserve it.

 

The Monster Hunter replacing itself - again I don't know is a problem. It can only happen when you only have one monster hunter on the board and you'd have to choose to replace (you can just take the heal without replacing) which I guess gets you a small reposition, but they already have deadly pursuit. And again this is only going to come up once you've killed you second model with this summons, so I'm guessing not terribly often.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Maladroit
Oops

[Maniacal_cackle]

I've heard a few people argue that new Jedza cannot gain life tokens because of the FAQ:

Quote

*Chronicle(X)– If a model that has full Health Heals, does it trigger the Chronicle Abilities of models around it?* a) No. Chronicle Abilities only resolve when a model “would Heal” because the model already has full Health and any additional Healing is ignored (see Healing Pg 25) making the Healing entirely ignored which is not considered Healing as its Health is not increased.

It breaks several things that they suddenly used 'would heal' (when chronicles doesn't say that), but new Jedza seems like a clear cut example that uses the 'would heal' language that now breaks cuz of this FAQ?

(Incidentally I think healing should just use the same timing as damage and that'd smooth out all these issues).

Granted, this is another one of those 'common sense' issues that no one would actually argue in game, but worth pointing it out.

[trikk]

29 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I've heard a few people argue that new Jedza cannot gain life tokens because of the FAQ:

It breaks several things that they suddenly used 'would heal' (when chronicles doesn't say that), but new Jedza seems like a clear cut example that uses the 'would heal' language that now breaks cuz of this FAQ?

(Incidentally I think healing should just use the same timing as damage and that'd smooth out all these issues).

Granted, this is another one of those 'common sense' issues that no one would actually argue in game, but worth pointing it out.

Her Chronicle says "would heal" and not "heals" like other Chronicles 🤔

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, trikk said:

Her Chronicle says "would heal" and not "heals" like other Chronicles :thinking:

Haha, but the FAQ says 'would heal' specifically xD

[trikk]

I'd say that is model rule > general rule as this one specifically states that you have to be at full health.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, trikk said:

I'd say that is model rule > general rule as this one specifically states that you have to be at full health.

For sure, just seems like a weird inconsistency hopefully they'll address.

[Angelshard]

Not sure if it's game breaking, but am I right in assuming that a second master won't reveal title until after crew selection?

Thats a lot of unknown stones if you know the title of either master.

If it works this away it's really annoying as I'd just gotten used to the new, and better, way that second masters are selected. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 hours ago, Angelshard said:

Not sure if it's game breaking, but am I right in assuming that a second master won't reveal title until after crew selection?

Thats a lot of unknown stones if you know the title of either master.

If it works this away it's really annoying as I'd just gotten used to the new, and better, way that second masters are selected. 

Looks like. You'll know the second master but not its title is my assumption.

[Angelshard]

That kinda sucks, at least in my opinion. Two master titles unknown is a bit much, and very hard to tech against

[Maniacal_cackle]

20 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

That kinda sucks, at least in my opinion. Two master titles unknown is a bit much, and very hard to tech against

Yeah, myself and some others are worried that teching may become so difficult that the best strategy is to just go for a powerful, proactive strategy and force your opponent to have an answer.

That said, it is early days, so will just have to see how that one works out

[Adran]

11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, myself and some others are worried that teching may become so difficult that the best strategy is to just go for a powerful, proactive strategy and force your opponent to have an answer.

That said, it is early days, so will just have to see how that one works out

I know M3 is your only experience of the game, but for the first 2 editions, you didn't know the enemy leader at all, just their faction. 

Even if you don't know the titles of the leader and second Master you have a idea of about what 40% of their crew is.  You might not be able to be quite so sure of your tech working if it only works against 1 version of the master, but then you have to decide if its worth bringing that tech in. 

That said, the "I don't care what you are going to do, I'm just going to force through my plan" is always going to be an option to try. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

15 minutes ago, Adran said:

I know M3 is your only experience of the game, but for the first 2 editions, you didn't know the enemy leader at all, just their faction. 

Even if you don't know the titles of the leader and second Master you have a idea of about what 40% of their crew is.  You might not be able to be quite so sure of your tech working if it only works against 1 version of the master, but then you have to decide if its worth bringing that tech in. 

That said, the "I don't care what you are going to do, I'm just going to force through my plan" is always going to be an option to try. 

Haha, everything I hear about past editions makes me go "I love m3e, I hope it keeps being awesome."

[Morgan Vening]

12 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, myself and some others are worried that teching may become so difficult that the best strategy is to just go for a powerful, proactive strategy and force your opponent to have an answer.

That said, it is early days, so will just have to see how that one works out

I don't see how it's that much harder to tech over not.

If an opponent is hiring in a second master, sure, that's four combinations that you might have some teching to figure out, but it's still two Masters, and they've given up a third of their crew list before you start creating your list.

Opponent 1 - Declares Sonnia, second Master Perdita, ~35SS unknown.
Opponent 2 - Declares Sonnia, ~50SS unknown.

I figure the first is a lot less likely to have surprises that you can't account for. But I can't see how it's more likely. Even if you don't know the specifics, it's still giving you information you wouldn't normally have, of a big portion of your opponent's crew.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

I don't see how it's that much harder to tech over not.

If an opponent is hiring in a second master, sure, that's four combinations that you might have some teching to figure out, but it's still two Masters, and they've given up a third of their crew list before you start creating your list.

Opponent 1 - Declares Sonnia, second Master Perdita, ~35SS unknown.
Opponent 2 - Declares Sonnia, ~50SS unknown.

I figure the first is a lot less likely to have surprises that you can't account for. But I can't see how it's more likely. Even if you don't know the specifics, it's still giving you information you wouldn't normally have, of a big portion of your opponent's crew.

I wasn't thinking double masters, just more generally.

Like counter building to zoraida is way harder now. I imagine the new Ivan and Seamus will also completely upend the counter building.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I don't know if it is a problem because the decoy markers are destructible... But worth noting models can 'hide' inside of Decoy markers? If a size 2 or less model stands exactly on a decoy, no one can see the model and the model can't see out?

It is the first instance of blocking terrain that isn't impassable that I know of (normally these types of markers are dense/concealing I think?), but not sure it actually breaks anything too seriously since the markers are destructible.

[Morgan Vening]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't know if it is a problem because the decoy markers are destructible... But worth noting models can 'hide' inside of Decoy markers? If a size 2 or less model stands exactly on a decoy, no one can see the model and the model can't see out?

It is the first instance of blocking terrain that isn't impassable that I know of (normally these types of markers are dense/concealing I think?), but not sure it actually breaks anything too seriously since the markers are destructible.

I thought two identical sized bases fully overlapped allowed LOS to both? It's the reason a single 30mm can't cover a Scheme marker?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Morgan Vening said:

I thought two identical sized bases fully overlapped allowed LOS to both? It's the reason a single 30mm can't cover a Scheme marker?

You get line of sight to both, but because of the shadow rules I believe you can't see the model? Not 100% sure.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

You get line of sight to both, but because of the shadow rules I believe you can't see the model? Not 100% sure.

Sight lines don’t pass through the Decoy marker in this instance, so shadow shouldn’t block los. Unless you want to count the sight lines touching the determining edge of the Decoy marker as “passing through”.

 

[Angelshard]

Wouldn't a model just stand on the marker and become height n+2? I thought it follows the same rules as a hill. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Angelshard said:

Wouldn't a model just stand on the marker and become height n+2? I thought it follows the same rules as a hill. 

The marker isn't climbable or got any traits to stand on it. You can stand inside of it as far as I can tell.

4 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Sight lines don’t pass through the Decoy marker in this instance, so shadow shouldn’t block los. Unless you want to count the sight lines touching the determining edge of the Decoy marker as “passing through”.

 

Hmmm... I could see that argument.

[Angelshard]

@Maniacal_cackle If you look at the example of a hill in the rulebook it doesn't have any other traits than height, but models still stand on it, it just doesn't spend any additional movement changing elevation. I'd argue this is the same.