Von Schill Iron heart and Co.

[Korrok]

Oh boy. Schill has all sorts of funky crazy nonsense he can do now. Like trunk gives schill rocket boots upgrade and walks forward. Schill leaps forward, tosses the boots back to Hanna, discards a card since he's next to the trunk, gets rocket launcher, uses the rocket, tosses that back to a friend, then uses foul mouth motivation to give someone focus and then gives himself shielded 2 from another upgrade. Both models he tossed upgrades to also gain shielded and now he still has 2 ap left for whatever. Obviously theres alot of room for creativity and various contexts for how best to use his new kit. 

[Azahul]

Hannah, not Anna. Wrong sister.

 

I see Schill using any low crows in hand to punch Arik a bit, then heal that damage with Foul Mouthed Motivation, to load himself up Turn 1. That's neat.

 

Outside of obvious cases (an opponent declaring Pandora/Daw and wanting the Ruthless, or a really Concealment heavy map) I'm not sure when I'd want to declare this version though. He's slower, worse at scheming, easier to kill, and only does more damage than original Schill once you're out of resources for the Pull trigger. Being less resource hungry in Freikorps is great, to be sure, but it is mostly because he has fewer options to pick between and I declare Schill when I want lots of options turn to turn. Explosive Payload, Ruthless, ignoring negatives, handing out Focus and Shielded, these are all great things, and I can see myself playing him. He's just not super exciting at first glance.

[Da Git]

Thanks! Do we have the links to the large artworks of these models?

Edit. I am absolutely calling OG Schill's title "Kapitan" from his new ability since he's more of a commander type (and Guard Commander would be better for Dashel, since that's his rank)

[Engorn]

[Morgan Vening]

55 minutes ago, Azahul said:

He's slower, worse at scheming, easier to kill, and only does more damage than original Schill once you're out of resources for the Pull trigger. 

Ehh. He's slow if you don't have a friendly within 6", or if he can't wail on someone. Ability to get Rocket Boots as a Bonus (and the ability to use them immediately with Instinctual) or as a melee trigger, is hard to call slow. Durability loss for Seen It All seems like a reasonable trade, and Pull is reliant on some support (I think? The FAQ confuses me).

He's definitely not a universally better model, but I don’t think he's incredibly niche either.

[Zebo]

I like a lot both models. 

Don't think VS is better or worse. He's different. He can remove any marker (thanks god, I wanted that in Freikorps... Now we only need some buff in Drachen, including Burn It All trigger on the Flamethrower), improve the crew's aoe damage, is Ruthless and plays more agressive tank than ranged support. 

 

The Metallurgist is also quite nice, recovering a pseudo Freikorps Suit in aura, healing any non-minion Freikorps and giving them an extra action or giving out upgrades. 

 

The only thing I miss is something in new Von Schill/Metallurgist to take advantage of the scraps markers Von Schill can create now. 

[Azahul]

41 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Ehh. He's slow if you don't have a friendly within 6", or if he can't wail on someone. Ability to get Rocket Boots as a Bonus (and the ability to use them immediately with Instinctual) or as a melee trigger, is hard to call slow. Durability loss for Seen It All seems like a reasonable trade, and Pull is reliant on some support (I think? The FAQ confuses me).

He's definitely not a universally better model, but I don’t think he's incredibly niche either.

Oh I'm not saying new Schill is slow, but he doesn't have the absurd movement options that come from throwing out rocket boots to the same model repeatedly and taking Give Them Hell triggers. He's straightforward and seems fine on paper but he's just... less than his original form in so many ways that matter for winning games.

[Trample]

Iron Heart VS looks like a ton of fun to play - just like Commander VS is. I like that he isn't strictly better than Commander, but rather a different approach. He has great economy in attaching upgrades and giving them to his crew. He's definitely going to want a decent pile of stones for the crows needed for the adaptive armor trigger. I see the Servant upgrade on him in every situation. He should be taking out a model every turn. It's a bit harder to get focus on him now, so double engineers might be good here. Although Hannah can copy it Von Schill's Foul Mouth and use it on him (can she if the trigger attaches upgrades - maybe not).  

VS (SoDP), Trunk, Hannah, Arik, Engineer (x2), Metallurgist, Prospector +4 stones   

I really like instinctual on him (too bad metallurgist doesn't have it) since he'll certainly use his foul mouth every turn, probably healing Arik or Hannah. He'll still have another for a leap or one of the other equipment options. 

Should be fun! 

 

[Mangod]

7 hours ago, Engorn said:

Ok, if there isn't AT LEAST 3 references to riding eternal or shiny chrome in Malifaux Burns, we riot.

[Trample]

If I were looking for the best melee master against a non-terrifying crew though, I would probably reach for Twin Blades over Iron Heart. 

 

[Thatguy]

8 hours ago, Azahul said:

He's slower,

Isn't he significantly faster? With Instinctual, he's able to equip and leap every turn, and Bulldoze + Sudden strike is like a second charge a turn he can do even while engaged.

With mobility, a 2" engagement range, and Soldnerkaptain he seems like he'd be a great tarpit/support for a gunline.

 

7 hours ago, Engorn said:

This was my thought too. lol

22 minutes ago, Mangod said:

Ok, if there isn't AT LEAST 3 references to riding eternal or shiny chrome in Malifaux Burns, we riot.

I wonder how he'd look with a shiny and chrome paintjob.

[touchdown]

I really like both new models. The Metallurgist should also be very good in amalgam.

Instinctual when 4 of the 5 equipment upgrades have bonus actions is great. New VS should be a 5 AP model most turns. A 40mm base with 2" engagement is also huge. He's going to be a board control monster and all those models you're engaging? No negative flips for shooting them.

Don't sleep on explosive payload either. If a model gets hit by that 3 times it's 9 total damage. If you're doing the injury trigger, it's going to get very hard to avoid, you can follow that up with a 5 damage clockwork grenade. More realistically lets say hitting twice, for 5 damage and a 4 damage grenade after. Arik throwing some grenades will make things worse. Maybe this gives play to Lazarus? With injured 2 out, most models would need a 10 to avoid his grenade launcher and it would be doing 5 damage

[touchdown]

On the downside, I think scouts fit this VS much less, and engineers which I already wanted to bring both of every time, fit even better. I would have liked to see him synergize more with the minions that don't get taken much. He doesn't do much for Drachen Troopers. Freikorpsmenn seem about the same with either.

[Thatguy]

23 minutes ago, touchdown said:

Don't sleep on explosive payload either. If a model gets hit by that 3 times it's 9 total damage. If you're doing the injury trigger, it's going to get very hard to avoid, you can follow that up with a 5 damage clockwork grenade. More realistically lets say hitting twice, for 5 damage and a 4 damage grenade after. Arik throwing some grenades will make things worse. Maybe this gives play to Lazarus? With injured 2 out, most models would need a 10 to avoid his grenade launcher and it would be doing 5 damage

I feel like I'm missing something. Can you run the math by me again?

[touchdown]

3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I feel like I'm missing something. Can you run the math by me again?

2 dam on first attack, 3 on 2nd, 4 on 3rd = 9. After that any shockwave is doing +3 dam. TN 14 is pretty good but I doubt realistically you'll ever hit all 3. More likely it would be 2,3, and then +2 dam on shockwave attacks from other sources the rest of the turn.

[Jkkb]

10 minutes ago, touchdown said:

2 dam on first attack, 3 on 2nd, 4 on 3rd = 9. After that any shockwave is doing +3 dam. TN 14 is pretty good but I doubt realistically you'll ever hit all 3. More likely it would be 2,3, and then +2 dam on shockwave attacks from other sources the rest of the turn.

While I like the thought I'm sorry to say it's a once per turn ability.

[touchdown]

1 minute ago, Jkkb said:

While I like the thought I'm sorry to say it's a once per turn ability.

d'oh! Always read the cards kids

edit: this is why I get overly excited on the forum first, before putting models on the table

[Thatguy]

10 minutes ago, touchdown said:

2 dam on first attack, 3 on 2nd, 4 on 3rd = 9. After that any shockwave is doing +3 dam. TN 14 is pretty good but I doubt realistically you'll ever hit all 3. More likely it would be 2,3, and then +2 dam on shockwave attacks from other sources the rest of the turn.

It's Shockwave 2 Damage 1, so wouldn't it be 1, 2, 3 for 6? Also it's once a turn.

It might be good to lob at people and see who you soften up with Injured for a charge/buldose though.

[touchdown]

22 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

It's Shockwave 2 Damage 1, so wouldn't it be 1, 2, 3 for 6? Also it's once a turn.

It might be good to lob at people and see who you soften up with Injured for a charge/buldose though.

once again, I'm very bad at reading

[Azahul]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Isn't he significantly faster? With Instinctual, he's able to equip and leap every turn, and Bulldoze + Sudden strike is like a second charge a turn he can do even while engaged.

With mobility, a 2" engagement range, and Soldnerkaptain he seems like he'd be a great tarpit/support for a gunline.

He's one less Move, and regular Schill can use the Give 'Em Hell trigger to Leap multiple times in an activation (with a 2" Push each time), making him considerably faster in a pinch. As a rule this version feels a lot less flexible in terms of what he can do. He isn't likely to burn out your entire hand in an activation pulling off some wacky shenanigan, but that's largely because he doesn't have anywhere near the same number of wacky shenanigans.

[Da Git]

12 hours ago, Trample said:

Although Hannah can copy it Von Schill's Foul Mouth and use it on him (can she if the trigger attaches upgrades - maybe not).  

Hannah can't copy it as the triggers are part of the action. Same as Malifaux child can copy Effigy's Plenty of Wares, but not the Emissary's.

 

7 hours ago, Azahul said:

He's one less Move, and regular Schill can use the Give 'Em Hell trigger to Leap multiple times in an activation (with a 2" Push each time), making him considerably faster in a pinch. As a rule this version feels a lot less flexible in terms of what he can do. He isn't likely to burn out your entire hand in an activation pulling off some wacky shenanigan, but that's largely because he doesn't have anywhere near the same number of wacky shenanigans.

You either have the luck of the gods or are churning through resources to achieve this!

I agree with your assessment though in that this one is more consistent (built in trigger on Foul-mouth, default good damage, auto hands out upgrades) but the other can potentially do a fair bit more with resources.

I'd also go with Kapitan (OG) Schill if facing something like Cadmus or McMourning where I can expect to see lots of HtW (probably with Rusty as well to make a gun line or for someone to Pull enemies to (preferably into a pre-made pit trap!).

Overall, I really like both versions and think both a good in different situations.

Iron-Heart also enables Lazarus and guns (especially Drachen) through Soldnerkapitan (with this was called Finish the Cur!) and Explosive Payload. Whether or not it actually makes them decent, well, time and table time will tell!

[Azahul]

Oh I very much have turns where Schill is my first activation and by the end of it I've spent my entire hand and one or two stones  Those turns near invariably score me points though (even if they tend to go sideways on attrition pretty fast), and they involve doing things that new Schill simply can't do. 

 

Which, to be fair, is to be expected. The titles have to be different to create points of separation. I saw a similar expression of lukewarm ambivalence towards new Hoffman expressed by an Arcanist player saying that they felt the generalist Masters would have the hardest time with new titles, and I think it's a good point. Schill is so good at so many things that it hasn't left much room for the Iron Heart, and while Iron Heart has his niche he stacks up poorly when looked at through that generalist lens by sheer necessity. I imagine I'll probably play him more than I initially expect and really enjoy how much more freedom I have in how I use my hand, but he's overshadowed in a lot of aspects because of how much his original version already did.

[touchdown]

Soldnerkaptan lets you ignore all negatives, so a good counter pick for crews that rely on serene countenance, manipulative, or distracted

[Thatguy]

4 hours ago, touchdown said:

Soldnerkaptan lets you ignore all negatives, so a good counter pick for crews that rely on serene countenance, manipulative, or distracted

Yeah. Concealment too for Zipp or English crews. You'll probably use it mostly in Friendly Fire, but there are lots of edge cases.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

6 hours ago, touchdown said:

Soldnerkaptan lets you ignore all negatives, so a good counter pick for crews that rely on serene countenance, manipulative, or distracted

Soldnerkapitan just says "Attack Action" and not "Attack Action duels". Wouldn't all negatives also apply to the Attack Action's damage flip as well? Seems a bit powerful, but I don't see a reason as to why it would be limited to only the duels since the damage flip is part of an Attack Action and the effects mentioned above do explicitly state they affect the duel only.