Hoffman the Inventor

[dancater]

Schemes and Stones on YouTube have revealed new cards, I don't have images I can post. Hopefully others will soon.

Either way. Its Hoffman the Inventor (paired across from Von Schill with the title Ironheart)

Hoffman now has Pylon Markers (4 placed at start of the game) which provide power tokens, he is a little faster, a little tougher, can hand out injured. Big, size 3 50mm, had a Bulldoze ability and 2" melee reach. 

Really not sure.

The new Augmented model is Outcast (Freikorps) called the Metallurgist a 6ss Enforcer.

Model has pretty solid defences with Df5 Wds6 Shielded +2 and Evasive. It a buff model, can generate power tokens, improves how armour works (can reduce certain damage to 0), can command constructs and vent steam.

Looks useful as hell for the points.  

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

 

[Pallas4]

Play against Hoffman will need remove non destructible markers.

Scraps for Hoffman1
Pylons (and scraps) for Hoffman2.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm trying to be positive about the new titles (and honestly there's only 3 that have me real cranky), but...

Impassable markers that are not destructible??? That's nonsense that shouldn't be in the game IMO. It is going to suck to have marker removal semi-mandatory against every Hoffman matchup.

[Pallas4]

I really understrand your opinion. And I'm agree with you about the nonsense. More the impassable created during the game have no limitations with other markers to be placed.

So in some cases, you can imprison opponent.

That's why I'd like to list all markers removal markers here

 

[Math Mathonwy]

He has a built-in Place in his attack so I suppose caging up enemies is the intended playstyle.

Am I reading this correctly that Last Defense and Bulldoze stack? So if you Bulldoze Pylons you get two Scrap and two Pulses per Pylon?

Metallurgist looks crazy amazing!

[dancater]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Impassable markers that are not destructible??? That's nonsense that shouldn't be in the game IMO. It is going to suck to have marker removal semi-mandatory against every Hoffman matchup.

As an Arcanist that loves Hoffman I totally agree.

As non-destructible markers its potentially game breaking and I dislike it on principle.

But....

With limited ways to create new Pylon Markers, given how essential they seem to be to this Hoffman version, if they can be easily destroyed then this title is crippled.

This is the first title which really worries me in terms of playability, game balance and similar issues. Really think this needs to be looked at more closely.

But I do love the idea. 

[dancater]

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Metallurgist looks crazy amazing!

Yep, really like this one.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, dancater said:

As an Arcanist that loves Hoffman I totally agree.

As non-destructible markers its potentially game breaking and I dislike it on principle.

But....

With limited ways to create new Pylon Markers, given how essential they seem to be to this Hoffman version, if they can be easily destroyed then this title is crippled.

This is the first title which really worries me in terms of playability, game balance and similar issues. Really think this needs to be looked at more closely.

But I do love the idea. 

The simplest solutions would be either to make them more plentiful but destructible, or to just make them not destructible but not impassable (for instance, hazardous 1 to represent the shock damage, or even hazardous stunned or concealing or whatever).

[dancater]

3 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

He has a built-in Place in his attack so I suppose caging up enemies is the intended playstyle.

Agree, but I am dubious of this idea. As impassable markers the potential for really un-fun blocking of certain strats and schemes is awful. If, in order to address this they increase marker destruction powers then you've got a built in hard-counter for Hoff the Inventor, which you pretty much HAVE to take if Hoffman is declared.

I made a comment on a different (I think) Maniacal_cackle post, about Kaeris. That its Malifaux, so while huge damage potential is a risk and needs to be carefully balanced it is not, by any means game breaking, because damage and killing in Malifaux is rarely the primary way to win the game.

This is the opposite of that point. Hoffman the Inventor has the potential to lock out schemes and strats with indestructible, impassable terrain unless specifically planned for. This has a direct impact on how Malifaux games are usually won. That is, to my mind, much more of a potential problem.

[dancater]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The simplest solutions would be either to make them more plentiful but destructible, or to just make them not destructible but not impassable (for instance, hazardous 1 to represent the shock damage, or even hazardous stunned or concealing or whatever).

This x100

Looking at his card at the start I figured Pylons would be like Ice Pillars, but they are not. I thought maybe a scrap marker and big card would 'summon' a new one, but it is Bulldoze which produces new Pylons, which is less flexible and much more fiddly.

I'll be honest I'd vastly prefer they be say Hazardous style terrain (arcing electricity) or simply passable and totally indestructible except by Hoffman's specific mentioned abilites. That would mean so many less issues.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, dancater said:

Agree, but I am dubious of this idea. As impassable markers the potential for really un-fun blocking of certain strats and schemes is awful. If, in order to address this they increase marker destruction powers then you've got a built in hard-counter for Hoff the Inventor, which you pretty much HAVE to take if Hoffman is declared.

I made a comment on a different (I think) Maniacal_cackle post, about Kaeris. That its Malifaux, so while huge damage potential is a risk and needs to be carefully balanced it is not, by any means game breaking, because damage and killing in Malifaux is rarely the primary way to win the game.

This is the opposite of that point. Hoffman the Inventor has the potential to lock out schemes and strats with indestructible, impassable terrain unless specifically planned for. This has a direct impact on how Malifaux games are usually won. That is, to my mind, much more of a potential problem.

Yeah, like what if Hoffman manages to lock down two break the line strategy markers and just makes it impossible to play the game.

Or completely blocks off the chokepoints for a board and you end up with a game where you can't cross the centreline without places xD

[Rufess]

Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, like what if Hoffman manages to lock down two break the line strategy markers and just makes it impossible to play the game.

Or completely blocks off the chokepoints for a board and you end up with a game where you can't cross the centreline without places xD

Hoffman starts with 4 Pylons on his side of board, and he can only create one and push one once per turn. So I think it is not a easy job to block enemies in choke spot before them can unpacked.

Also completely blocking a object requires 3 markers, which is not small invest to Hoffman.

Not saying it is not a problem, but I think we better put him on the board and see.

14 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The simplest solutions would be either to make them more plentiful but destructible, or to just make them not destructible but not impassable (for instance, hazardous 1 to represent the shock damage, or even hazardous stunned or concealing or whatever).

Or make it climbable.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Rufess said:

Hoffman starts with 4 Pylons on his side of board, and he can only create one and push one once per turn. So I think it is not a easy job to block enemies in choke spot before them can unpacked.

Also completely blocking a object requires 3 markers, which is not small invest to Hoffman.

Not saying it is not a problem, but I think we better put him on the board and see.

Or make it climbable.

Climbable would have been good.

Doesn't require 3 markers if you abuse terrain!

For instance, in these buildings you can probably block it off with one marker:

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh god, or symbols, where you can potentially get two markers locked down before turn 4 pretty easily...

And have full control over the initial placement of all the markers...

[dancater]

2 minutes ago, Rufess said:

Also completely blocking a object requires 3 markers, which is not small invest to Hoffman.

On an empty battlefield yes.

But if a table has weird terrain things could go pear shaped fast. Bad idea that table layout is so effected by a single master.

Climbable is a solution, but this has implications for standing on top of the marker, both in terms of what could fit, making the markers and LoS. But it is not an impossible solution.

I'd still prefer it was treated more like a Pylon of fine struts with arcing electricity which is passable and maybe does something else (balance wise). I'd love an idea some form of static electricity which pulls in or pushes away, but not sure how to make this work mechanically and not simply create new problems, not to mention more complexity on new models is something I'd rather avoid.

[Maniacal_cackle]

This can be done first activation of turn one, locking two symbols out of the game if the opponent doesn't have marker removal. Not even incorporeal models can grab the symbols.

[trikk]

12 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

This can be done first activation of turn one, locking two symbols out of the game if the opponent doesn't have marker removal. Not even incorporeal models can grab the symbols.

It can't. Pylons have to be 3" away for markers so T2 at the least

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, trikk said:

It can't. Pylons have to be 3" away for markers so T2 at the least

At start of game you deploy them 3" away. Then Hoffman's activation:

• Bonus action to move a pylon next to one symbol.
• Then walk forward
• Interact
• Bulldoze with trigger to make another pylon.

Two pylons in position.

[trikk]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

At start of game you deploy them 3" away. Then Hoffman's activation:

• Bonus action to move a pylon next to one symbol.
• Then walk forward
• Interact
• Bulldoze with trigger to make another pylon.

Two pylons in position.

Ah, yes

 

IF GUILD SUCKS AT TAKING SYMBOLS, WE'LL MAKE ENEMIES SUCK TOO

[Rufess]

Lucky me don't have that kind of buildings with corner in my local meta.😊

So he will be the 2nd master after Jedza who forces all TOs to reveal their terrain pieces and board setup.

[Maniacal_cackle]

7 minutes ago, Rufess said:

Lucky me don't have that kind of buildings with corner in my local meta.😊

So he will be the 2nd master after Jedza who forces all TOs to reveal their terrain pieces and board setup.

I hope they don't put rocks against board edges, or funny shaped rocks, or buildings with nooks in them, or any other texture xD

Although even then, with just a regular circular rock it takes two pylons to lock a marker out, so you can still trivially lock out one marker and easily lock out two.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Wait, strategy markers aren't counted by abilities.

DOES THIS MEAN YOU CAN JUST START NEXT TO THE SYMBOLS??? xD

[theamazingmrg]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

At start of game you deploy them 3" away. Then Hoffman's activation:

• Bonus action to move a pylon next to one symbol.
• Then walk forward
• Interact
• Bulldoze with trigger to make another pylon.

Two pylons in position.

And done nothing else with your activation.  and then he gets Obeyed to Bulldoze through both of his Pylons that are blocking something.  Honestly, I don't think it'll be as bad as all that on the actual table.  Those Pylons will be needed for the Power marker and Shielded generation to fuel the rest of the crew as they've lost access to the free Power, Fast, and healing/irreducible Armor from Hoffman (although the Metallurgist definitely helps with the latter!  Placing two in one place to deny a single point means the opponent gets their pick of the rest of the table to score from, and using the Pylons to block movement in narrow gaps means Hoffman/Peacekeeper/Howard/Hunter will struggle to move around too.

 

We'll just have to wait and see, but I think it'll be OK.  It certainly doesn't scare me as much as some of the other Masters!

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, theamazingmrg said:

And done nothing else with your activation.  and then he gets Obeyed to Bulldoze through both of his Pylons that are blocking something.  Honestly, I don't think it'll be as bad as all that on the actual table.  Those Pylons will be needed for the Power marker and Shielded generation to fuel the rest of the crew as they've lost access to the free Power, Fast, and healing/irreducible Armor from Hoffman (although the Metallurgist definitely helps with the latter!  Placing two in one place to deny a single point means the opponent gets their pick of the rest of the table to score from, and using the Pylons to block movement in narrow gaps means Hoffman/Peacekeeper/Howard/Hunter will struggle to move around too.

 

We'll just have to wait and see, but I think it'll be OK.  It certainly doesn't scare me as much as some of the other Masters!

Well, you can't obey a master, and also if you do it a bit more efficiently you can get it down to 1 ap + 1 bonus, but I didn't want to go to the extremes since it already seems pretty silly.

He still has three markers to work with (as well as what he creates the rest of the game) in my above example, so I don't think it is THAT big an investment for locking out multiple points.