Misaki, Fractured

[solkan]

6 minutes ago, muraki said:

I'd say this doesn't work, as corrupted familiar says

'friendly shang models are treated as destructible concealing shadow markers, which cannot be removed by effects which remove markers'

and minako's summon says

restriction - remove a target scrap or friendly shadow marker.  If a shadow marker was removed this way, increase the action's stat by +2.

Since the cost is 'remove a scrap or friendly shadow marker' and shang prevents himself from being removed, I dont think it works out.  If it wasn't an italicized restriction, I'd say you could still use him as part of the summon via 'do as much as you can' rules, but with it being in italics, its different.

 

19 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

One cool thing about this title with Minako is that you can use Shang to create Katashiro without using your actual shadow markers.

@Muraki is right.  You cannot use Shang to create a Katashiro because it's an italic cost--Corrupted Familiar prevents you from paying the cost (removing the marker), and because costs for actions aren't subject to the usual 'just try it and whatever happens is okay' method of resolution that get used for everything else the action fails in step 2.  

[Cursed25]

29 minutes ago, muraki said:

I'd say this doesn't work, as corrupted familiar says

'friendly shang models are treated as destructible concealing shadow markers, which cannot be removed by effects which remove markers'

and minako's summon says

restriction - remove a target scrap or friendly shadow marker.  If a shadow marker was removed this way, increase the action's stat by +2.

Since the cost is 'remove a scrap or friendly shadow marker' and shang prevents himself from being removed, I dont think it works out.  If it wasn't an italicized restriction, I'd say you could still use him as part of the summon via 'do as much as you can' rules, but with it being in italics, its different.

Good to know! thx for the info!

 

I have now even less reason to play her title than before! xD

[Jinn]

As Maniacal said, the Focused trigger is really good because it resolves before any generated action. Obey into an attack (Sniper shot, bow shot, Ototo charge, whatever) will let you use the Focused on that attack.

My lists go something like this:

• Misaki, Fractured
• Shang
• Ototo
• Jin Baccara
• Thunder Archer
• Thunder Archer
• Katanaka Sniper
• Terracotta Warrior

Won games off of Obeying Ototo for double focused and then burying him (and obey the sniper to get Focused +2 or something with the last AP). If your opponent has ways of getting fast or additional actions (more common than you'd think) then you project threat from the middle of their crew. Otherwise you can get a forward shadow marker off of a double walk bonus action from an Archer if you hit the tome trigger, or you can have Shang walk up twice if your opponent lacks range.

If you can hit something with Ototo on T1 then Jin makes it more likely you'll get initiative on turn 2, allowing Ototo to hopefully finish them and get Fast from Assassin. I've had Ototo unbury, use The Storm is Coming to teleport ~6-7" and then charged a model (keeping out of their engagement) then gone first next turn, charged them again and finished them off. We're talking two 3/4/5 crit strike attacks from a stone user at double  to damage using Focused + Charge Through, followed by a third less impressive attack but the potential to get fast. It's not guaranteed as even at +1 you won't win initiative every time, but it can be a huge early swing and it is pretty safe given you can bury him if he gets in trouble (ideally after an obeyed charge if he's got his grit) and then heal him with Shang.

Fun combo with Jin is you unbury on whatever poor minion they've brought and send it back to their deployment (ideally it's one of those 8-10SS minions on T2 or T3 after they've spent a bunch of AP moving it up) then you get Misaki to bury Jin again and send that same minion back again on a later turn.

[Psycho_alchemist]

17 hours ago, Jinn said:

As Maniacal said, the Focused trigger is really good because it resolves before any generated action. Obey into an attack (Sniper shot, bow shot, Ototo charge, whatever) will let you use the Focused on that attack.

My lists go something like this:

• Misaki, Fractured
• Shang
• Ototo
• Jin Baccara
• Thunder Archer
• Thunder Archer
• Katanaka Sniper
• Terracotta Warrior

Won games off of Obeying Ototo for double focused and then burying him (and obey the sniper to get Focused +2 or something with the last AP). If your opponent has ways of getting fast or additional actions (more common than you'd think) then you project threat from the middle of their crew. Otherwise you can get a forward shadow marker off of a double walk bonus action from an Archer if you hit the tome trigger, or you can have Shang walk up twice if your opponent lacks range.

If you can hit something with Ototo on T1 then Jin makes it more likely you'll get initiative on turn 2, allowing Ototo to hopefully finish them and get Fast from Assassin. I've had Ototo unbury, use The Storm is Coming to teleport ~6-7" and then charged a model (keeping out of their engagement) then gone first next turn, charged them again and finished them off. We're talking two 3/4/5 crit strike attacks from a stone user at double  to damage using Focused + Charge Through, followed by a third less impressive attack but the potential to get fast. It's not guaranteed as even at +1 you won't win initiative every time, but it can be a huge early swing and it is pretty safe given you can bury him if he gets in trouble (ideally after an obeyed charge if he's got his grit) and then heal him with Shang.

Fun combo with Jin is you unbury on whatever poor minion they've brought and send it back to their deployment (ideally it's one of those 8-10SS minions on T2 or T3 after they've spent a bunch of AP moving it up) then you get Misaki to bury Jin again and send that same minion back again on a later turn.

Sadly I believe the trigger adds focus AFTER the obey action is resolved.

So the model obeys, at the end of action drops a shadow marker and gets Focus (on injured if enemy model). Triggers are after the action unless stated otherwise

[Jinn]

53 minutes ago, Psycho_alchemist said:

Sadly I believe the trigger adds focus AFTER the obey action is resolved.

So the model obeys, at the end of action drops a shadow marker and gets Focus (on injured if enemy model). Triggers are after the action unless stated otherwise

All triggers must be resolved before generated actions:

"Many effects in Malifaux, (such as Actions, Abilities, and Triggers) can cause a model to take an Action. When this happens, the new Action is always resolved after the previous Action is completely resolved, including any “After Resolving” effects, but before any other new Action can be taken."

[Psycho_alchemist]

Yes of course, I should have read the old rules clarifications for Obey.

So the focus/injured applies before any further action, but shadow marker still appears after the action occurs.

[regleant]

Was just looking over this model with some friends, and I want to be sure I understand it right for the list building. The ability Spreading Influence is a "Once Per Activation" that allows Misaki to drop Shadow Markers B2B with enemy and Last Blossom models.

With Misaki1, I tend to have issues with being shot off the board by my opponents.

Does this ability effectively allow each Last Blossom model to walk forward and bring their own Concealment on Turn 1? Dropping in front of the enemy has different uses, but I'm looking at this ability as a potential delivery system. Last Blossom ranged models ignore Concealment, too, which is pretty cool (except for Crime Boss and Pressure, but I've maybe twice ever used it). 

So my first thought is a Delivery system. My second thought is that the 8 Shadow Markers I made for Misaki1 won't be nearly enough for this...

[Adran]

4 hours ago, regleant said:

Was just looking over this model with some friends, and I want to be sure I understand it right for the list building. The ability Spreading Influence is a "Once Per Activation" that allows Misaki to drop Shadow Markers B2B with enemy and Last Blossom models.

With Misaki1, I tend to have issues with being shot off the board by my opponents.

Does this ability effectively allow each Last Blossom model to walk forward and bring their own Concealment on Turn 1? Dropping in front of the enemy has different uses, but I'm looking at this ability as a potential delivery system. Last Blossom ranged models ignore Concealment, too, which is pretty cool (except for Crime Boss and Pressure, but I've maybe twice ever used it). 

So my first thought is a Delivery system. My second thought is that the 8 Shadow Markers I made for Misaki1 won't be nearly enough for this...

They can each drop one on their activation, but it's not automatically going to happen, you need to gain fast or take an extra action some how ( obey, onslaught, co- ordinated attack, that sort of thing) and the melee attack from charge doesn't count for this ability. 

I'm sure you could build a list that would create more than 8, but it's not all that likely.

[regleant]

6 hours ago, Adran said:

They can each drop one on their activation, but it's not automatically going to happen, you need to gain fast or take an extra action some how ( obey, onslaught, co- ordinated attack, that sort of thing) and the melee attack from charge doesn't count for this ability. 

I'm sure you could build a list that would create more than 8, but it's not all that likely.

Spreading Influence: "After a Last Blossom or enemy model takes an action generated from any non-Charge effect or gains Fast, Drop a Shadow Marker into base contact with it."

 

Let's talk about this a bit, because it seems I don't understand it. First is the word "generated." What does this actually mean?  What are examples? I first read this ability to mean that if my model simply took a Walk action, I could drop a Shadow Marker, because it was not a Charge. Is "generated" to mean "extra"? What actually qualifies?

• Crime Boss: Thunders Territory - Gang Warfare? It's a generated attack
• Crime Boss: Nagamaki - Unworthy of her attention? It's drawing a card, is that an action?
• Crime Boss: Pressure - If you are able to control the opponent's model, does that count?
• Ototo: Storm is Coming - Unexpected Smoke Bomb? Does being placed count as taking an action?
• Torakage: Shuriken - Onslaught? It's a generated attack
• Reposition? As it's a move. 
• Or is the list of actions only what is permitted on Page 22: Interact, Disengage, Concentrate, Assist, Walk, Charge (and any specific action called out on the model's card).

Those are the only examples I could find that might count as "generated action." I realized that the question seems basic, but I want to understand the minutia before I put it on the table and confuse people.

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Adran]

As I understand it, the 2 standard actions ( and the bonus action every one gets ) aren't generated by an effect. Spreading influence needs an action or an ability to generate the action.

The most common" generated" action is the melee action that a charge generates ( but is specifically call out here as not generating a shadow marker). 

In most cases you will have wording in the effect that tells you to take an action. There might be some other wording but I can't think of any at the moment.

Things which just do things, such as reposition, do not generate an action.

Movement isn't automatically an action. Taking a walk action ( such as from onward) would count if it's not one of your game allowed actions, but most other movement isn't an action. Drawing a card isn't an action.  And as such they wouldn't set off spreading influence. 

But otherwise anything that is covered by the Action generated by effects call out box (page70). ( It's not a new concept in the rules, but people often didn't need to realise it before). 

So onslaught would because it generates an attack action. 

 

[Thatguy]

Yeah it's just referring to extra actions outside what can normally be taken, but there's no keyword or easy term for those extra actions. So they're "an action generated from any non-Charge effect"

[regleant]

7 hours ago, Adran said:

 

But otherwise anything that is covered by the Action generated by effects call out box (page70).

 

Everything you said helps, except page 70. My PDF only goes to page 53. 

[Adran]

6 hours ago, regleant said:

Everything you said helps, except page 70. My PDF only goes to page 53. 

Sorry that's the physical book page number. I haven't the pdf to hand to tell you it's page.

Glad that it helps. Hopefully it makes sense to you now. 

[regleant]

Here's a weird one - what about abilities like "Last Breath?" Does the attack in that ability count as "generated?" I think it falls in the same category as a Charge, no?

[Cursed25]

1 hour ago, regleant said:

Here's a weird one - what about abilities like "Last Breath?" Does the attack in that ability count as "generated?" I think it falls in the same category as a Charge, no?

last breath generate a melee attack action and is not a charge so will create a shadow marker after the attack!

[muraki]

10 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

1 hour ago, regleant said:

Here's a weird one - what about abilities like "Last Breath?" Does the attack in that ability count as "generated?" I think it falls in the same category as a Charge, no?

last breath generate a melee attack action and is not a charge so will create a shadow marker after the attack!

Agreed.  Charge is a specific general action, so just because last breath looks a bit like a charge in execution, things that relate to charges dont affect last breath (like why last breath can get through disguised / extended reach)

[Adran]

4 hours ago, regleant said:

Here's a weird one - what about abilities like "Last Breath?" Does the attack in that ability count as "generated?" I think it falls in the same category as a Charge, no?

Does last breath tell you to take an action?

 Actions generated by charge only don't produce a shadow marker because they are specifically called out as not counting to generate shadow markers. In all other circumstances they are just the same as attacks generated by obey or triggers or other abilities. 

[regleant]

22 minutes ago, Adran said:

Does last breath tell you to take an action?

 Actions generated by charge only don't produce a shadow marker because they are specifically called out as not counting to generate shadow markers. In all other circumstances they are just the same as attacks generated by obey or triggers or other abilities. 

Tactical Action: Last Breath: Until end of this activiation, this model's Actions receive a positive flip to their duals and damage flips against the target. Then Push this model 5" towards the target and take a melee Action targeting it.

 

Part of me says that the attack is simply part of the Last Breath description. There's nothing "generated." That's why I am confused. This Tactical Action simply tells you to make an attack.

[Adran]

35 minutes ago, regleant said:

Tactical Action: Last Breath: Until end of this activiation, this model's Actions receive a positive flip to their duals and damage flips against the target. Then Push this model 5" towards the target and take a melee Action targeting it.

 

Part of me says that the attack is simply part of the Last Breath description. There's nothing "generated." That's why I am confused. This Tactical Action simply tells you to make an attack.

It tells you to take a melee action. That action doesn't count as one of the two actions you could normally do, it is generated by the last breath action. 

That might be a clearer way of thinking of it, as long as you know what is an action, if the action doesn't count towards the 2 actions you are normally limited to, it's been generated by some other effect.