First impressions of the new Molly

[Verdeloth]

17 hours ago, Graf said:

Playing devil's advocate here: Maybe they aren't designed to be able to take a beating?

Sure, they are very soft for there ss cost compared to other keyword models.

I never question that the design of these models to be unintentional but as it is now not only one or two of them, more or less the whole keyword is lackluster. philip being one of the least used henchmans in the whole faction. She do have archie wich was wildly used in all crews before leap nerf but even early m3e before all nerfs i did win games with molly but it was a real struggle and only won with the smallest margins every game. 

But again as it is right now i cant see myself to place atleast old molly (we shall see about new one but have doubts) in a higher tournament table. If you wanna go casual games then do whatever you want  but i like to pick models and master that will give me an edge in the pool / vs my opponents master / crew.

More times then not molly aint the answer for that 😆

This is just my though about new molly and her keyword 😆. 

[Math Mathonwy]

On 8/8/2021 at 6:16 AM, fire5tone said:

and everyone except bayou gets good bayou two card 

Yeah, they nerf the original version massively and then introduce way more powerful versions for other factions. 

I mean, naturally you can't compare them out of context as abilities but it still kinda stings.

I'm also not a huge fan of this M3e design style where a Master or a keyword are given a weakness or a cost (like discarding cards for effects) and then just get handed a way of ignoring the cost/weakness. Yan Lo (original) and Gokudo are a perfect example but this new Molly seems to aim for a very similar result.

To end on a more positive note, I do like that the new Molly kinda wants to go first to get the OP Bayou Two-card going but then she can't go last and get all the movement and schemey stuff to win Strats and Schemes. I think that's very neat and creates a big tactical dilemma.

[Maniacal_cackle]

21 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Yeah, they nerf the original version massively and then introduce way more powerful versions for other factions. 

I mean, naturally you can't compare them out of context as abilities but it still kinda stings.

I agree, I hate when this happens (and also see Cadmus/Zoraida). It really screams 'new stuff gets to have the better toys.'

21 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I'm also not a huge fan of this M3e design style where a Master or a keyword are given a weakness or a cost (like discarding cards for effects) and then just get handed a way of ignoring the cost/weakness. Yan Lo (original) and Gokudo are a perfect example but this new Molly seems to aim for a very similar result.

To end on a more positive note, I do like that the new Molly kinda wants to go first to get the OP Bayou Two-card going but then she can't go last and get all the movement and schemey stuff to win Strats and Schemes. I think that's very neat and creates a big tactical dilemma.

I think to some extent they probably designed things to have drawbacks to make for interesting gameplay, and then realised that in many cases you can just say "well, why don't I grab an ook/versatile that doesn't have a drawback?'

So I think it is probably a necessary design concession to get a lot of stuff back on the table. And I agree that they did a nice tension with activation order for new Molly.

[admiralvorkraft]

It's the problem with having flexible hiring. The game could explore much more interesting choices if crews were more keyword locked.

As-is we're just going to see more Fuhatsu-ized design. *shrug*

[Maniacal_cackle]

Welp...

Regardless of how strong this title is, I think Molly is going to be overall weaker xD Molly is really good at adapting, but that gets a lot harder when so many masters now will create two awkward situations you have to guess which to play around.

Like seeing new Zoraida, I used to feel quite confident into Zoraida and now that matchup feels significantly worse with the new title able to ruin activation control. So you have to go in with a plan for dealing with obey AND a plan for dealing with activation disruption.

[50 SS Enforcer]

I’m thinking new Kirai accomplishes the same role(in terms of schemes and strats not role in a gameplay point of view) as new molly, but taking very different routes. Unfortunately I’m leaning toward Kirai as the better of the two. My strengths in malifaux are positioning and resource management(coupled with over aggression). New molly, like old molly, just doesn’t have the aggression or the resource management I use to play. I’ll still be playing both versions of molly, just not in tournament play(not to say she isn’t amazing for others play style). Little sad they didn’t give her red chapel, with Philip on the card. Would have been a fun title to pair up masters cuz viks came together and it opened up some design space. 😂 Seamus and Molly+Philip together again. Obviously Seamus gets his Soulstone powered flame thrower back. 

[Graf]

6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Molly is really good at adapting, but that gets a lot harder when so many masters now will create two awkward situations you have to guess which to play around.

That's a really good point about the impact master titles likely will have on the game balance overall. 

Niche/tech master most likely will become weaker in general, since you won't as often be able to tell if you can actually utilize their package. Masters who have abilities you can always utilize and/or "ask questions, not answer them" will be better off, without them caring as much about what they are playing against. 

[Math Mathonwy]

On the other side of the coin, some Masters have a very difficult match-up against certain others and might therefore not even be declared against certain factions. But now if you face your nemesis you can just take the other title and hopefully have a better game.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

On the other side of the coin, some Masters have a very difficult match-up against certain others and might therefore not even be declared against certain factions. But now if you face your nemesis you can just take the other title and hopefully have a better game.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to McMourning not just folding to anti-healing.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

Relooking at Parade Route and the Walk with Pride trigger, would a Night Terror Push 5”, discard and Push 5”, and then Interact? Stupid good for Spread Them Out if so.

[Maniacal_cackle]

12 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Relooking at Parade Route and the Walk with Pride trigger, would a Night Terror Push 5”, discard and Push 5”, and then Interact? Stupid good for Spread Them Out if so.

Don't have the cards in front of me, but actions happen last so sounds right!

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

23 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Don't have the cards in front of me, but actions happen last so sounds right!

Nice! Actually probably works better for Outflank than Spread them out. 2x Terrors and two cards, and you can Outflank with Molly as last activation from near nothing.

[dannydb]

For those of us living a priate life any ideas for how to make new molly and her new demonic pet more pirate like? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, dannydb said:

For those of us living a priate life any ideas for how to make new molly and her new demonic pet more pirate like? 

Pirate hat for the noxious  Maybe give it a giant anchor it whacks people with .

For alts and special editions, I'd just use the sculpt for both titles? Molly has a lot of flavour in her sculpt, not sure she could be converted easily... Could have her parading off a plank with a pirate hat on the brain?

[Maniacal_cackle]

I've let her marinate in my mind for a while, and I just can't figure out how to make her work (though haven't put her on the table yet).

Any tips from people who have tried it?

[doubleW]

 

On 8/10/2021 at 4:53 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Welp...

Regardless of how strong this title is, I think Molly is going to be overall weaker xD Molly is really good at adapting, but that gets a lot harder when so many masters now will create two awkward situations you have to guess which to play around.

Like seeing new Zoraida, I used to feel quite confident into Zoraida and now that matchup feels significantly worse with the new title able to ruin activation control. So you have to go in with a plan for dealing with obey AND a plan for dealing with activation disruption.

Well... at least old Molly can reliably remove markers.
I feel like there are so many new title masters dropping/creating marker

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I've let her marinate in my mind for a while, and I just can't figure out how to make her work (though haven't put her on the table yet).

Any tips from people who have tried it?

I suppose the best part about the new Molly is the bonus action, so I can see a fair argument for just model spam.  2-3 rabble risers and 2-3 night terrors? 2 of each is only 22 stones. Archie and noxious would round it out to 40 exactly. Maybe a couple upgrades?

[doubleW]

I know I read a discussion about it.... what was the general consensus?
Her bonus is just once per activation or once per activation per model?

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, doubleW said:

I know I read a discussion about it.... what was the general consensus?
Her bonus is just once per activation or once per activation per model?

Dont think it will be settled til next FAQ since the wording is tricky.

[Graf]

How is that FAQ worthy? You can do it once in a single activation. Done. Where is that unclear?

The Transmortis card draw ability works with the same wording and nobody raised questions there. 

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

 

12 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I suppose the best part about the new Molly is the bonus action, so I can see a fair argument for just model spam.  2-3 rabble risers and 2-3 night terrors? 2 of each is only 22 stones. Archie and noxious would round it out to 40 exactly. Maybe a couple upgrades?

I think just Night Terrors are great with new Molly, and even upping to 3-4 could be good. Can snipe non-body/terrain blocked symbols from ~10", threaten most/all markers in break the line, or move a Terror carrying lodestone 21" in it's activation when starting near Molly and a 5+ mask in hand. Reveal for Outflank, Breakthrough, and Detonate charges can be accomplished purely w/in Molly's activation with Night Terrors. Night Terrors make Parade Route the best part of new Molly imo, and it's great that they are also the best minion for triggering Remember the Lost. I can even see Forgotten Marshal making the cut in Leylines just to be able to summon expendable Night Terrors for lodestone duty, and they may even earn the card back using their bonus action near Molly. Needless to say I'm excited for Night Terrors w/ new Molly, I just need Wyrd to make some pirate alt sculpts for them and the Marshall.

I think a crew for her is going to revolve around 3-4 Terrors and Archie, with Philip being around more often than not.

On a side note, I'm not clear with how her bonus action works with relenting. Parade Route could be good for drawing a card, but is passing a duel by 2 considered just surpassing the TN by 2 or surpassing the opposing model's flip and the TN by 2?

[Adran]

10 hours ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

On a side note, I'm not clear with how her bonus action works with relenting. Parade Route could be good for drawing a card, but is passing a duel by 2 considered just surpassing the TN by 2 or surpassing the opposing model's flip and the TN by 2?

If the duel has 2 requirements to pass I would assume you have to pass both by two to count as passing the duel by 2.

If you relent in an opposed duel, yoo are treated as having the same value as the attacking model so you clearly haven't passed by 2 (page 10 electronic)

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 hours ago, Graf said:

How is that FAQ worthy? You can do it once in a single activation. Done. Where is that unclear?

The Transmortis card draw ability works with the same wording and nobody raised questions there. 

Well, the Transmortis card draw ability is actually once per activation per model. For instance, both Anna Lovelace and Valedictorian can draw a card in a single activation (for instance, if an enemy attacks them both).

So the phrasing of Molly's abiity is a little ambiguous (each model has a once per activation thing? Or Molly can hand out the cheat once per activation?)

I'm leaning towards Molly can hand out one cheat per activation.

[Adran]

18 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Well, the Transmortis card draw ability is actually once per activation per model. For instance, both Anna Lovelace and Valedictorian can draw a card in a single activation (for instance, if an enemy attacks them both).

So the phrasing of Molly's abiity is a little ambiguous (each model has a once per activation thing? Or Molly can hand out the cheat once per activation?)

I'm leaning towards Molly can hand out one cheat per activation.

In reality this sort of thing is once per activation per ability (rather than per model) (page 33). So if 2 different models have the ability it can happen twice. Look at misery for a similar thing. So Molly can hand out 1 cheat per activation. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Adran said:

In reality this sort of thing is once per activation per ability (rather than per model) (page 33). So if 2 different models have the ability it can happen twice. Look at misery for a similar thing. So Molly can hand out 1 cheat per activation. 

Hmm... Here's the rules:

Quote

A model can only take an Action or Ability that is once per Activation once during an Activation.

A model can only take an Action or Ability that is once per Turn once on any given Turn.

These limitations are all by Action (or Ability) and model, so a given model could, for example, take multiple once per Activation effects so long as they were on different Actions or Abilities. Additionally, multiple models that have the same Action (or Ability) with a once per Activation can each use that effect once per Activation.

I don't think it is clear-cut, but I tend to agree that the intent is you can't have multiple models cheat, so don't feel too strongly. I'm not sure I could firmly say that someone with the other approach is wrong though.