New Ghostie bois! Yan & Ken

[Da Git]

So Introducing the Ghostie Bois, Malifaux's latest Boi Band extravaganza!

Malifaux Uni has a video covering them here and for reference:

Looks fairly interesting with a VERY different playstyle from Paths-Yan. Looks like he wants more Minions, so Toshiro could be good for Ashigaru summons and buff the Komainu (who a probably better than Gokudo as you won't be killing/re-spawning them to re-summon Ancestors??). Chiaki isn't 100% necessary as he can do the whole give upgrades by himself.

Big thing to watch out for is attacks that target Mv!

[kalcan]

Looks interesting! Some key things I am noting:

• Yan Lo's reliquary has to go on an in-keyword minion (Ashigaru, Gokudo, Komainu)
• Yan Lo must be placed within 3" if the reliquary minion ends a move, there is no option to not place him
• Built in trigger for obey is only for in-keyword models with reliquary attachments, trigger to get focused is only on non-ancestors. Needs a crow for his split reliquary trigger too so he may be SS hungry to get cards/suits to obey key enemy models and to get split reliquary trigger
• Looks like the bonus action on Yan Lo's reliquary will mostly be used by the minion to obey itself to give it another action, since the minion should always be within 3" of Yan Lo
• Non-linear movement shenanigans are cool, with his bonus action and obey targeting his reliquary minion to move. Will be a free card draw at the end of his activation too if bonus action is used on reliquary minion
• Komainu and ashigaru should always be in Take the Hit range for him, so he should be defended easily. 7" Mv komainu seem to be the best target to start out with the reliquary imo
• Seems not as durable or hard hitting as OG Yan Lo, will be interesting to figure out what strategy and scheme pool he is suited towards.

He definitely doesn't look as strong as some of the other new title spoilers we've been seeing, I hope I'm wrong though!

[Maniacal_cackle]

I said in the Resser forums, but there is a lot of space to explore OOKs as well.

Like it is trivial to make an armor 2 fuhatsu or bill. Or Ototo with constriction to tar pit. Or unimpeded on things. Or who knows!

Current yan lo can do it too, but this one can do it more consistently and is set up better for it.

[Da Git]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I said in the Resser forums, but there is a lot of space to explore OOKs as well.

Like it is trivial to make an armor 2 fuhatsu or bill. Or Ototo with constriction to tar pit. Or unimpeded on things. Or who knows!

Current yan lo can do it too, but this one can do it more consistently and is set up better for it.

How are you giving Fuhatsu a Reliquary upgrade? Guard Reliquary is Retainer only.

Nevermind... I'm guessing through the A New Guardian action?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Da Git said:

How are you giving Fuhatsu a Reliquary upgrade? Guard Reliquary is Retainer only.

But the action on the upgrade to pass on the upgrade ('a new guardian') is not keyword locked

So you give it to a minion and the minion passes it on.

[Pallas4]

 

In a game I would spent the beginning giving reliquary upgrades to friendly models. The last few rounds, with his assigned minion, he would spent his time running around placing and removing markers.

He is ridiculously fast.... the minion moves twice and uses his bonus action to get yan lo to do an Obey.... and then Yan Lo activates and does another Obey then has "a weary road". mip mip.

 

The "non destructible markers" masters won't like this ghost. Who you gonna call? Not Titania nor Sonnia unmasked.

[Jinn]

If your minions are all killed you almost lose your Master because of how slow he is, so that's something to watch out for. I think he may be a lot safer to play in Ressers because you can Summon Ashigaru with Toshiro there. Given the number of new Masters that emphasise spamming Minions (which has so far been a terrible strategy this edition) I'm really hoping they're planning to make the next GG more favourable to those kinds of lists. Otherwise we'll be in a bad situation where only those minion spam Titles who have enough synergy to make a bunch of minions work are playable, and then buffing minions in general through GG or Errata will make those Titles OP.

Note that Gokudo can't use their best ability with this version of Yan Lo because it requires them to be replaced by an Ancestor, which I think is the first time I've seen an ability be unusable. That ability is why you take them so that's unfortunate.

His low Mv leaves him very vulnerable to attacks and actions that target Mv. One example, if he gets Staggered then he literally can never pass a TN 15 Mv duel (like Quicksand), and he normally needs a 13 to do so. You can make him pretty tanky if you get the Izamu Reliquary on him, but still it is a massive vulnerability.

His strengths compared to the other Yan Lo are definitely his scheming capabilities due to his speed and action efficiency. His speed is vulnerable however, if you take out a key minion he will have to expend a lot of energy to get back to where he wants to be (and again if you kill all minions he's just Mv 2 .) Old Yan Lo is pretty fast already (he can basically ride around any model with Paths in the late game if he wanted) but definitely less good at dropping markers where you might want them, although he could do that pretty well due to his mobility.

Old Yan Lo is definitely tankier (absurdly tankier honestly), definitely hits harder, has much more crew support with healing/shielded/resummoning, and is quite action efficient due to his upgrade attach effects. He lacks Marker removal and card draw, and scheme marker stuff as I said before.

I think discounting the liability of having to fill your crew with minions (where old Yan could get away with just one Gokudo if you really needed to) they could be pretty even for slightly different niches. With that liability taken into account I'd favour old Yan Lo personally, until I see minion spam become better for Schemes/Strats.

[Maniacal_cackle]

 Is it the end of the world if all the minions die?

I have plenty of games with molly where she moves 5-10 inches during the whole game.

[Jinn]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 Is it the end of the world if all the minions die?

I have plenty of games with molly where she moves 5-10 inches during the whole game.

I'd say it's pretty bad. Molly isn't really a schemer herself and a lot of the value she provides her crew is in the first two turns when she buffs them all up with focus and gives reactivate (which grants her activation control for a potential alpha strike.) If Molly dies at the end of turn 2 she may have already handed out four activations and 5+ focused. Also, not needing to move is a huge difference from not being able to move. Imagine if Molly had Mv 2 starting from turn 3, your opponent would be able to punish that to an enormous extent if they're good. If you bring too few minions with Spirit Walker Yan Lo then your opponent will potentially be able to plan for denying you movement.

This Yan Lo is going to need to contribute throughout the game with his Obey and scheming I'd say. I don't know exactly what a game with this Yan Lo would look like where he only needed to move 10". I think getting a lot of movement out of him is key to his viability and bringing few minions will leave you quite vulnerable.

Regardless, this isn't only an issue with Yan Lo, it seems many of the new titles are incentivising minions. I've seen a discussion on the Guild thread as to whether or not they will be simply running the super friends with new Sonnia despite Mad Mage. My point is only that if they successfully create balanced crews that rely on more low cost minions that make it work with powerful rules, then those minion focused Titles that aren't good enough will be hard to improve with general minion buffs in the S&S.
 

Wyrd may be planning the balance of these new Masters to coincide with better minions in general through a GG (I kind of hope this is the case) but if they aren't then I worry that they'll make it hard to buff minions in general rather than with specific crews. Obviously this is just vague speculation as we've only seen a couple of the new Titles, but I noticed a bit of a trend with these minion abilities.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

I’m liking the looks of including a Kabuki (maybe Jorogumo) as a strong Obey target when able and Sun Quiang or Ashigaru w/ reliquary as the “safe” Obey. Chiaki’s reliquary will make for a very difficult to deal with Great Sword body with up to 6 attacks a turn (8 with Toshiro), who in turn will improve the Wp attack action success rate of the crew. I’m thinking:

 

Yan (Spiritwalker)

Soul Porter

Ashigaru x2

Kabuki w/ silent protector or ninja based on matchup

Toshiro

Chiaki

Sun Quiang

6ss left

Toshiro follows Kabuki, Yan moves with the Ashigarus, and support heads where needed. I like that if they target the support/minions first, it leads to TT Toshiro being able to summon extra bodies for Yans reliquary.

[fire5tone]

1 hour ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

I’m liking the looks of including a Kabuki (maybe Jorogumo) as a strong Obey target when able and Sun Quiang or Ashigaru w/ reliquary as the “safe” Obey. Chiaki’s reliquary will make for a very difficult to deal with Great Sword body with up to 6 attacks a turn (8 with Toshiro), who in turn will improve the Wp attack action success rate of the crew. I’m thinkin

The problem is that the obey will never be built in against a non-retainer, so izamu can be built in, but Kabuki and jorogumo can't, and that is quite a big deal

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

1 hour ago, fire5tone said:

The problem is that the obey will never be built in against a non-retainer, so izamu can be built in, but Kabuki and jorogumo can't, and that is quite a big deal

Very true, I suppose it would be more like 3-4 GS attacks w/ Toshiro, and a possible 5-6 if you have the suits, ss’s, or reliquary on Toshiro. Toshiro looks like a very strong inclusion for new Yan, but retainer minions are pretty poor targets for his Gift. I think Izamu, Kabuki, and Jorogumo are all fairly even compared against each other since their abilities fill different niches. I think I prefer the activation control, Toshiro synergy, Wp debuff, and higher likelihood of 4+ dmg the Kabuki brings sans a specific scheme pool and opponents master choice.

For example, I think 51%+ of the time it is more worthwhile to spend the ss to charge the Kabuki next to an Armored target for Yan to hit twice than to do a smack with Izamu.

Izamu is definitely the Obey beater in a list w/o Toshiro. With the Damiyo, I think Izamu can probably stay on the bench if ruthless isn’t needed.

[Maniacal_cackle]

One thing to note is Izamu can't gain focus from the built in suits (it is non-ancestor only). A kabuki can gain the focus, but can't benefit from the suits (so you have to stone).

Still, I think it makes sense to abuse the OOK power of the upgrades, as well as having some obey potential for your own models.

I like the mix of:

• 2 ancestors
• 2 retainer minions
• 1 OOK (ideally a minion if using Toshiro)

Although that can of course be adjusted, that's where I'll be starting the experimenting in Ressers.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Posted to the resser forum, but I think my list was legal for TT:

Tried out new Yan Lo today (first time playing any Yan Lo crew I think).

OOoooooo, boy, the crew has a lot of tools.

Yan Lo's activations are pretty devastating

• Final wishes is insane. Very easy to set up a severe hit with like a Komainu.
  • And I didn't even realise it allows you to discard cards xD
  • The reliquary trigger also makes it easy to gain value off of it
• Weary road is so much value, as Yan Lo can move a huge distance by moving his anchor.
• Obey - well, we all know the power of this action.
  • It is overall weaker than the obeys of other models due to the lack of a built-in mask unless you jump through hoops.
  • BUT it allows some crazy plays with komainu, including passing the reliquary during Yan Lo's activation.
• Twist reality is pretty good, but I didn't end up using it much.
  • It is a bit of a poor master action without triggers, and I didn't want to stone for triggers.
  • Once I was good with the crew, I assume Final Wishes could smooth this out.
  • I did get a clutch stun with it at one point, which was super good.

Double komainu felt like everything I needed, minion wise.

• I played them a bit backline since I knew the crew was vulnerable to losing the Komainu.
• Between the two of them, Yan Lo was online for everything he wanted to do, and they could pass the reliquary back and forth.
• Komainu felt really good with the move 7, the armor, the solid attacks to combo with the focused, etc.
  • I didn't breath of fire much because I'd rather charge.
• Charging with anchors is SO efficient:
  • Move the anchor
  • Move Yan Lo
  • Get an attack
  • That's basically 3 ap worth of value out of one action.
    • Four if you are using obey + focus.
• Overall, 2 Komainu feels like a super solid base.

The rest of the crew I'm still figuring out.

• I had Manos, Yin, Izamu, Sun.
• Sun feels a bit slow without all the movement shenanigans of original Yan Lo + Chiaki, so I'm not certain he was the best model (it was corner deployment).
• Manos died virtually instantly from misplays and a red joker from the enemy.
• Izamu felt somewhat weak, but actually lived longer than I expected.
• Yin was awesome, and scored multiple points.

I really rate Yin in this crew for the extra interact. I assume Manos is amazing like he is with Molly, but need more testing. Izamu I felt has too many mobility issues, but DOES offer a solid way to contest a particular point on the board... But then just dies SO easily.

Overall, the crew felt like it has loads of potential and was an absolute blast to play.

EDIT: I should add I'm not certain that reliquary shenanigans are necessary. Just hiring a good crew and letting Yan Lo play with two komainu that can pass his reliquary as needed seemed plenty strong. 

[HomelessOne]

As always, the old man's gotta show the kids how it's done.

[Assdex]

I got a great question .

What happens if minion with yan up died in bury.

Who will take the up ?

[Adran]

I would assume that if you have 2 or models equal distance apart, you choose which. And since if you are buried, all models in play are equal distance from you, you can choose who gets it. 

[Assdex]

8 minutes ago, Adran said:

I would assume that if you have 2 or models equal distance apart, you choose which. And since if you are buried, all models in play are equal distance from you, you can choose who gets it. 

Mb , but no any rules about it. 

And i think aura from shtook just turn off upgrage , can yan place if minion in aura ? 

And if minion died in aura mean that up is gone

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Assdex said:

Mb , but no any rules about it. 

And i think aura from shtook just turn off upgrage , can yan place if minion in aura ? 

And if minion died in aura mean that up is gone

Von schtook only turns off the upgrade. The place is Yan Lo's ability so still goes off.

Von Schtook turns off laugh off, the passing the upgrade on death, and the bonus.

So if you kill the minion in von schtook's aura, the upgrade is gone.

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Assdex said:

Mb , but no any rules about it. 

And i think aura from shtook just turn off upgrage , can yan place if minion in aura ? 

And if minion died in aura mean that up is gone

I don't think there are any rules about measuring range to buried models. 

Yan can place if the model ends in Von Stooks aura because the ability on Yan lo's card just needs the model to have the upgrade. Von Stook just makes the model with the upgarde ignore abilities and actions and triggers, not that it has an upgrade. 

If the minion dies in the aura then yes, it can't use release the soul. 

[Assdex]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Von schtook only turns off the upgrade. The place is Yan Lo's ability so still goes off.

Von Schtook turns off laugh off, the passing the upgrade on death, and the bonus.

So if you kill the minion in von schtook's aura, the upgrade is gone.

Sound like solid counter. 

[Adran]

Just now, Assdex said:

Sound like solid counter. 

Yes, but if you are facing Von Schtook, you either play original Yan lo, or take a lot more care over the placement of the relic holder. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Assdex said:

Sound like solid counter. 

Also there's Anna Lovelace for gravity well to disrupt the places.

So overall, maybe don't declare this version into Von Schtook xD

[Assdex]

And i think obey or bury this minion will be bad for yan. One Obey Grom zora and yan lo fly away

[Assdex]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also there's Anna Lovelace for gravity well to disrupt the places.

So overall, maybe don't declare this version into Von Schtook xD

Yea i think against ressers shen or Misaki Is better