Toni Ironsides, Union President

[Peturd]

There was definitely times I wished I had Amina in play for her aura. In the scrum keeping scheme markers 1” where everyone needs to be was a bit tricky. Especially very early on in activation order, wanting steam fitter shield or miner push.

I had a similar thought though. Try out all sorts to see how they do in the new style.

[retnab]

Personally I'm freaking thrilled to see schemey Ironsides!  Very keen to get her on the table.

I think it's important to note that the sheer existence of this title and the fact that it's so different from base Ironsides (beater/lockdown vs mobility/schemey) is actually in itself a buff to base Ironsides.  Remember that you announce your LEADER before both players make their lists, but you don't announce your Masters' TITLES until you're both revealing your completed lists, so your opponent has to try and make a list that can handle both or take a gamble and try to focus on dealing with one (and maybe getting screwed when you reveal it's the other one).

[dancater]

6 hours ago, retnab said:

Personally I'm freaking thrilled to see schemey Ironsides!  Very keen to get her on the table.

I think it's important to note that the sheer existence of this title and the fact that it's so different from base Ironsides (beater/lockdown vs mobility/schemey) is actually in itself a buff to base Ironsides.  Remember that you announce your LEADER before both players make their lists, but you don't announce your Masters' TITLES until you're both revealing your completed lists, so your opponent has to try and make a list that can handle both or take a gamble and try to focus on dealing with one (and maybe getting screwed when you reveal it's the other one).

This.

It provides players with versatility, it lets under-utilised crew members (in base master) find a new potential place, it lets a player expand their playable collection at a reduced overall cost (adding a title while using the already largely owned and modelled crew). So great.

Then, as stated, for an opponent it adds uncertainty, you can't simply default a hard-counter into master-X, because the titles (thus far) have been markedly different. No longer do you abandon a particular master because you know you opponents declared faction has a first tier hard counter, now they have to adapt to master and title, which by necessity reduces the hard counter to the base master, which gives the base master new life.

What I am particularly happy about is that they are really putting work into keeping in theme and radically changing playstyle.

The Vik's reveal is the ultimate of this so far for me. The Vik's are pretty much themed on the twin sisters with the lethal swords that chop you to pieces, they are the fast, lethal and fragile glass canon style crew. What did Wyrd do, the Vik's are on a single base (like the old avatar) so closer than ever, they are straight melee as the blades flash, but they have lost some mobility (not much but some) and lethality (including at range) but gained significant durability. They scheme more, they benefit their Merc crew a little. It "feels" like the Vik's but will I suspect play very differently, if you select a crew to play into OG Vik's and instead hit the new Vik's it's going to be rough. So you need to account for the possibility of both, reducing the hard counter against both at the same time.

Love every reveal so far.

[Jordon]

I agree, I think this is great for Toni players, great for Arcanists and great for the game as a whole (provided they come out of the gate relatively balanced). 

I'm wondering if there are any vectors between both versions of Toni that an opponent could potentially lean into as a counter. I'm imagining that certain masters will still have some issues with counters. For example, I imagine Kaeris and Raspy will still lean heavily into markers, just HOW they do so may be different. However the fact remains that if you see those master, expect to see ice/pyre markers and plan accordingly. 

So with Toni, it doesn't seem quite as obvious. Models will still want to bunch up, but it'll be different based on which version. So maybe blasts/shockwaves could be a reasonable response to facing Toni? 

[dancater]

Agreed.

It crimps hard counters, but likely good against one will have solid play against the other.

As to Kaeris and Raspy.

I agree on the marker play, but how and what is an open question. I'd be disappointed if either abandoned pyre markers and ice pillars, they are simply huge to the core theme. 

Looking at what in there crews doesn't see play. For Raspy it's the Gamin, Ice Dancers and Acolytes, maybe a build which can use Ice Pillars as portals for 30mm based December (they step from one Ice Pillar and emerge through another, (or using scheme markers as the anchor maybe) when they emerge from the Ice Pillar explodes perhaps pulsing a short range slow or 1/1/2 damage aura on a failed simple dual vs Df xx to non-December. This would make December much more manoeuvrable, changing the Ice Pillars from a blocking piece to a movement enhancer.

For Kaeris, I've always wanted Fire summons, but I doubt we'll see that. It would be interesting to see a mechanism where Kaeris pulls and throws Pyre markers between her fire models, so she places a Pyre marker then can have that Pyre push across the field towards a Fire Gamin or Golem within x range, everything in between burns, basically mobile hazardous terrain. Another thing I'd like is a grow mechanic, similar to Nephelim but for her Fire Gamin to Fire Golem, a feed on flames thing, say where Kaeris can draw Burning off an enemy model and feed it to a Gamin, when a Gamin gets to Burning x they immolate into a Golem. Kaeris needs to have play with Firebranded, so in the grow concept maybe Kaeris Title adds this grow mechanic to the Firebrand (say as an addendum to Blaze of Glory), could be the same idea for the 'throwing' Pyre markers, but Firebrand need something and I hope they get it. 

A HUGE question is who every Arcanist master will partner with? Which will dictate the likely new model which cross plays into the crew.

Thus far we've mostly seen the master reveals by twos across different factions with a new model which crosses both master keywords and enhances play. So what do we see for each Arcanist, this I suspect strongly influences the concept.

Also there seems to be a concerted push to opening out the crew's keyword to enhance less played models.

So for...

• Sandeep, I'd expect something pushing Academic models, they have been less loved.
• Raspy as I've said the Ice Dancer, Gamin and December Acolytes I think.
• Kaeris, Firestarter and Fire Gamin are what I don't use much, but Firebranded especially.
• Marcus, I have one word Molemen.
• Colette, again the poor Ice Dancer, the minion which simply doesn't get her spot for points and play.
• Hoffman, now this is tricky because his dual faction sees models missing in Guild as well, but I think the old non-swarm Steam Arachnid needs a little love.
• Mei I don't play much, but Metal Gamin don't seem to be as useful as the Survivors/Rail Workers, so maybe them. 

Of all of the above speculation the only one I'm really confident on is Sandeep. I'm pretty certain we'll see him twist from Gamin summoning to something heavily leaning into the Academic theme, but how and what???

Another interesting question is the degree to which Wyrd designers have taken the faction Themes as a whole set, we've only seen a few thus far. Have they done the eight themes as a if master x becomes a schemer then master y becomes a melee killer while master z fills that summons slot we opened up with other changes. In the non-title iteration each faction had certain masters which played into certain styles and the overall set complimented each other and largely you could play any "type" of game depending on who you picked in faction (although how well certain masters did overall of course varied). Will the Title masters be the same? Will we see a balance approach across each faction so between the (soon) 16 masters will you broadly have this many melee beaters, this many control, this many ranged gunline style, so many summoners, this many super speedy schemers and so many flex master/crew combos?? Or will the titles introduce more cross faction imbalance between crew "styles"? 

Hell are we even certain that every master, across every faction will get a title in the forthcoming release?  

 

[Da Git]

17 minutes ago, dancater said:

Hell are we even certain that every master, across every faction will get a title in the forthcoming release?

Yes. It's been stated a few times.