Dreamer insomniac title and lady yume

[Kiryn]

Surely if you want to use a consume it's better using teddy. 

[Korrok]

13 hours ago, Adran said:

It is only 1 card per duel that it removes. Although if they have several good cards there I assume you set the deck up so that you can get it to go off multiple times. I think the main power of it is the manipulation of the top of the deck, rather than the card discard, even though the discard is useful. 

That's basically what I was saying. You remove the severes while setting weaks on top so when you do it again they need to then cheat to stop you simultaneously ruining the quality of the top of their deck while applying hand pressure. 

[Adran]

9 hours ago, Korrok said:

That's basically what I was saying. You remove the severes while setting weaks on top so when you do it again they need to then cheat to stop you simultaneously ruining the quality of the top of their deck while applying hand pressure. 

In a case when I see 2 severe cards and 3 weak cards I can't quite work out what is best to do. 

Should I set up the severe to the top of the deck, so it goes on the next duel, or a weak, so I can win the duel if they don't cheat and get rid of the severe. (but if they do win, I have left the sevre in their deck) Which has the problem that I've now removed over half the cards I had information from, which doesn't seem liek such a good use of a Master AP. 

I'm thinking that , barring triggers, I'm not sure that I can see many situations where I actually want more than 1 peer to work each turn. 1 peer is good, but the second one is a lot less good.  

[Maniacal_cackle]

28 minutes ago, Adran said:

In a case when I see 2 severe cards and 3 weak cards I can't quite work out what is best to do. 

Should I set up the severe to the top of the deck, so it goes on the next duel, or a weak, so I can win the duel if they don't cheat and get rid of the severe. (but if they do win, I have left the sevre in their deck) Which has the problem that I've now removed over half the cards I had information from, which doesn't seem liek such a good use of a Master AP. 

I'm thinking that , barring triggers, I'm not sure that I can see many situations where I actually want more than 1 peer to work each turn. 1 peer is good, but the second one is a lot less good.  

I think it can definitely come up (for instance, their only good play is to activate their master next and do a bunch of damage, and all you need is for that not to happen).

But I imagine it is a play like less than 5% of the time.

Which kind of highlights how difficult it is likely to be to play this master? xD

[Adran]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think it can definitely come up (for instance, their only good play is to activate their master next and do a bunch of damage, and all you need is for that not to happen).

But I imagine it is a play like less than 5% of the time.

Which kind of highlights how difficult it is likely to be to play this master? xD

But if I have already done Peer once, I can't get any more information about the top of the deck. It won't ever let me know more than 4 cards. I can try it again, and remove up to 2 of the cards I knew about and replace them with 2 new cards, but I still only end up with 4 cards of knowledge. And the lieklyhood is that of the 2 cards I removed, whilst one is good, I probably made one bad because I wanted to win the duel, so I haven't altered the mean of the deck very much. 

If I expect them to activate master and beat face next then I might try and arrange things so that they are likely to have to cheat to hit, and then get weak on a  negative damage flip, hopefully using a good card on that negative flip.

And that used up 3 of the cards of the 4 I know. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, Adran said:

But if I have already done Peer once, I can't get any more information about the top of the deck. It won't ever let me know more than 4 cards. I can try it again, and remove up to 2 of the cards I knew about and replace them with 2 new cards, but I still only end up with 4 cards of knowledge. And the lieklyhood is that of the 2 cards I removed, whilst one is good, I probably made one bad because I wanted to win the duel, so I haven't altered the mean of the deck very much. 

If I expect them to activate master and beat face next then I might try and arrange things so that they are likely to have to cheat to hit, and then get weak on a  negative damage flip, hopefully using a good card on that negative flip.

And that used up 3 of the cards of the 4 I know. 

Fair points! You could always do it again against like a 9 of a suit you don't like. If you pass, you get to go again. if you don't, even failing the duel clears the problem card.

[Adran]

14 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Fair points! You could always do it again against like a 9 of a suit you don't like. If you pass, you get to go again. if you don't, even failing the duel clears the problem card.

Admittedly if I just wanted to use up that card, I'm probably better off using endless slumber. I'm slightly more likely to win the duel anyway, and it will actually do something, which is probably a useful thing for a Master AP. 

[Nagi21]

Did we ever get a solid answer on the whole 3/2/1 with the jokers, because the rules say the ability is supposed to clarify, but it obviously doesn't.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

29 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Did we ever get a solid answer on the whole 3/2/1 with the jokers, because the rules say the ability is supposed to clarify, but it obviously doesn't.

The ability clarifying is towards the card used for the flip, the discarded card in this instance. Abilities dont clarify how they use a joker for damage generally.

[fire5tone]

28 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Did we ever get a solid answer on the whole 3/2/1 with the jokers, because the rules say the ability is supposed to clarify, but it obviously doesn't.

It's a variable flip (Wich aren't necessarily flips but a profile) so it should be 0/3/2/1/2

Treated as it normally would be with any other damage track

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

16 minutes ago, fire5tone said:

It's a variable flip (Wich aren't necessarily flips but a profile) so it should be 0/3/2/1/2

Treated as it normally would be with any other damage track

Joker damage modification only applies to damage flips, not all variable flips. Since you can’t stone to give a minus to the “flip” in this ability, wouldn’t  this only be a variable flip and not a damage flip?

[fire5tone]

32 minutes ago, PiersonsMuppeteer said:

Joker damage modification only applies to damage flips, not all variable flips. Since you can’t stone to give a minus to the “flip” in this ability, wouldn’t  this only be a variable flip and not a damage flip?

damage tracks *are* variable flips, but jokers bungle up any variable flip. so it should just be jokers as if it was a normal track.

[PiersonsMuppeteer]

13 minutes ago, fire5tone said:

damage tracks *are* variable flips, but jokers bungle up any variable flip. so it should just be jokers as if it was a normal track.

Damage flips are variable flips, but variable flips consist of flips other than damage flips. A joker will not affect a variable flip for a heal, since it is not a damage flip. There is no accuracy modifier and no ability to stone for a minus, so calling the variable flip for the ability a “damage flip” doesn’t make much sense. I would think you’d treat it similarly to a variable flip for Juggernaut.

[Rufess]

In fact both Jokers do affect all variable flip, which includes but not limited to damage and healing flip. So I do think the damage would be 0/3/2/1/2 by RAW, even though it seems working against the intention.

[Adran]

Variable Profiles
Some game effects use variable profiles (such as 1/2/3) to determine their result. Variable profiles are always divided into three segments: Weak/Moderate/Severe, and which segment is used is determined by the result of a card flip.
The value of the flipped card determines which of the variable profiles is used:
• 0 to 5: Weak
• 6 to 10: Moderate
• 11 to 14: Severe
Some game effects may cause a variable flip based on a value other than a card flip, effects such as these will clarify what card is used to determine the value of the variable flip.

Page 8

So this is obviously a variable "flip" using a value other than a card flip (its using the discarded card), as explained on the card. 

When you read this along with the Jokers section that Rufess quoted above, its pretty clear what happens, (the 0/3/2/1/2 for blackJoker/weak/moderate/Severe/redjoker)

[Maniacal_cackle]

Simplest solution is to do the same thing other abilities do and just add the words "non-joker."

Assuming that track is undesirable, although being able to discard black joker seems useful for people who like to horde it.