Morgan Vening Posted July 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 I think what it needs is the first part of the Constructive Criticism (Molly) requirements. I'll be honest, I didn't even see the lack of the ConCrit italics that I just assumed it was already part of Wrath. Require that the model already be activated before it can get the second activation. That way Jorogumo bombs can't happen unless Asami is within 8", and there's another activation (Asami's) between two Jorogumo chop chops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frumpypigskin Posted July 3, 2021 Report Share Posted July 3, 2021 47 minutes ago, bedjy said: Not sure about that. They may preview some very interesting concepts that went through the beta but may be "broken" in some ways and let a great many number of people see what could be the problem. Welp, we've got the card. Let's give her a go like Mr Schemes and Mr Stones did 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdown Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 Do I have this interaction right? If you have Ama and Kamaitachi in your crew. You have a dust devil marker and Ama's hazardous aura up near by an enemy model. Asami makes a rift marker, and then hits the enemy with the Unstable Rift trigger. You do damage flip, then 1 damage from moving the rift marker onto the enemy and then you place the enemy so that it's touching all 3 sources of hazardous, doing a total of 6 damage on weak (10 on severe)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, touchdown said: Do I have this interaction right? If you have Ama and Kamaitachi in your crew. You have a dust devil marker and Ama's hazardous aura up near by an enemy model. Asami makes a rift marker, and then hits the enemy with the Unstable Rift trigger. You do damage flip, then 1 damage from moving the rift marker onto the enemy and then you place the enemy so that it's touching all 3 sources of hazardous, doing a total of 6 damage on weak (10 on severe)? Luckily, no, hazardous damage doesn't stack. Or atleast hazard damage caused by sources that don't specify something like hazardous (damage 1 injured 1) as base hazard isnt (damage 1) it's just 1 damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, fire5tone said: Luckily, no, hazardous damage doesn't stack. Or atleast hazard damage caused by sources that don't specify something like hazardous (damage 1 injured 1) as base hazard isnt (damage 1) it's just 1 damage Hazardous does indeed stack. Just markers of the same name will only count as one piece of hazardous terrain (even if they're not touching). So if you have three separate sources of hazardous, that's 3 separate pings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 50 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Hazardous does indeed stack. Just markers of the same name will only count as one piece of hazardous terrain (even if they're not touching). So if you have three separate sources of hazardous, that's 3 separate pings. Ugh this is infuriating, multiple times have I been corrected that no it doesn't, and yes it does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 22 minutes ago, fire5tone said: Ugh this is infuriating, multiple times have I been corrected that no it doesn't, and yes it does That's super infuriating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 As said, hazardous can stack sometimes. You don't get to apply it multiple times from the same named marker ( so sitting in 3 pyre markers won't give you burning+3) but different named markers will apply their effects even if they are the same effect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OracleToronto Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 I think it’s valuable to look at rift markers also as a way to pull back extended models rather than just a way of extending them. Yokai are especially good for this due to all their in action places. playing her more “hit and run” style “yo-yo”ing your models in to do damage or interact with strat markers then pulling them back to safety could become a strong play style (once practiced enough) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 The difficult part of jorogumo stack is while it's one of the most potentially dangerous alphas, it's also one of the most interruptible, if the (now 4 health) manipulative-less huckster gets shot, then your jorogumo get sent back (still stacked though) and have to make up the difference, and unless you can get asami herself up the field safely, if jorogumo fails to kill anything on their second activation (not the first) they die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assdex Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, OracleToronto said: I think it’s valuable to look at rift markers also as a way to pull back extended models rather than just a way of extending them. Yokai are especially good for this due to all their in action places. playing her more “hit and run” style “yo-yo”ing your models in to do damage or interact with strat markers then pulling them back to safety could become a strong play style (once practiced enough) Food point. I think only about agrro throw katashiro . Cuz they cheap and summoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assdex Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 Just now, fire5tone said: The difficult part of jorogumo stack is while it's one of the most potentially dangerous, it's also one of the most interruptible, if the (now 4 health) manipulativeless huckster gets shot, then your jorogumo get sent back (still stacked though) and have to make up the difference, and unless you can get asami herself up the field safely, if jorogumo fails to kill anything on their second activation (not the first) they die U can heal huckster before his jump. And sometimes enough not kill whole enemy deployment , just stop in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 33 minutes ago, Assdex said: U can heal huckster before his jump. And sometimes enough not kill whole enemy deployment , just stop in here. Apologies, but are there good healing sources that you'd naturally take with this? Because if not the stone cost to actually do this is getting really high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) On 7/5/2021 at 2:13 PM, Assdex said: U can heal huckster before his jump. And sometimes enough not kill whole enemy deployment , just stop in here. This plan is now: Ama no Zako 10ss 2x Jorogumo 18ss OOK Huckster 7ss Tanuki or OOK Low River Monk 5ss That's 40ss, leaving 10 for your cache and whatever strat/scheming you plan to do. If you're using the Huckster for range of this alpha play, you're probably not dropping in range to clear the Flicker via Asami's aura, so the Jorogumo needs to kill an enemy with 42 AP and no flicker used or you lose the Jorogumo (at the end of the first activation of the double activation). If you inception'd the second Jorogumo and the first fluffed it's kill, that second one is now going to unbury next to Asami, back near your deployment, with 2 flicker on it with nothing really gained. The more I think about this play, the less I feel like going all in on it On 7/3/2021 at 1:58 AM, Jinn said: The fact that it can also guarantee last activation makes it a very 2e style combo and I don't think they're trying to bring that style of play back intentionally. So to ensure last activation are you activating both Jorogumo prior to getting buried? This might be a better plan than trying to drop double activation Jorogumos across the table, but also limits the high end output from this play. You still need to get that first Jorogumo to kill it's target without using Flicker if doing Jorogumo inception. I also wonder how strong Jorogumo will feel when they can't use Flicker willy-nilly, like they can under a summoner Asami (who just brings them back and has more active flicker removal for turn over turn flicker control). Still this alpha strike might be a stronger play than I'm feeling right now. Just want to work out the kinks. Edited July 7, 2021 by Cats Laughing Striked out section was a mistake based on forgetting wording of rules 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assdex Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 9:48 PM, fire5tone said: Apologies, but are there good healing sources that you'd naturally take with this? Because if not the stone cost to actually do this is getting really high Healing monk best heal ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Assdex said: Healing monk best heal ever ...true but you now have 10 stones free, and the moment you do the plan you might potentially risk losing 18 stones without any attacks from the enemy team, and if i were them, that activated huckster looks like prime shooting potential, and this is telegraphed as all hell, so unless your fighting someone unfamiliar it shouldnt be too hard to save an attack or two for it to come by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 3:23 PM, Cats Laughing said: so the Jorogumo needs to kill an enemy with 2 AP and no flicker used or you lose the Jorogumo (at the end of the first activation of the double activation) The model doesn't gain flicker until the beginning of its 2nd activation, so you've got 4 AP to do it. The biggest issue I see with the plan is that if someone wants to get 4 Jorogumo activations in their opponents deployment zone, that's at least 3 unactivated enemy models, and so long as the opponent is smart then at least one of those models is going to be able to kill a Huckster or otherwise make this strategy impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 I wonder if Desper Laraux would be a better delivery device. There's a lot less things that can kill Desper Laraux in a single activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire5tone Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 The reason he said 2 AP is because you *have to* kill on that second activation unless you make it back to asami, but if you kill your only good reliable target on your first activation it could just be dead if it takes its second Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, fire5tone said: The reason he said 2 AP is because you *have to* kill on that second activation unless you make it back to asami, but if you kill your only good reliable target on your first activation it could just be dead if it takes its second That doesn't explain the rest of the quote referring to you losing the model at the end of the first activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 hours ago, fire5tone said: The reason he said 2 AP is because you *have to* kill on that second activation unless you make it back to asami, but if you kill your only good reliable target on your first activation it could just be dead if it takes its second Nah, I was wrong about the first activation thing. I was thinking about the gaining the flicker at start of the activation, but wasn't thinking about the "second activation" part of that clause as my mind had dropped the word second and I didn't go back to check. So you've got 4 actions without flicker in the case of a double activation version. This is, of course, why I posted and also asked for why I'm wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I wonder if Desper Laraux would be a better delivery device. There's a lot less things that can kill Desper Laraux in a single activation. Desper is 2 more soulstones of cost (so now down to 8*ss for cache & models outside this plan) and a shorter range on the play (walk walk leap vs walk secret passage or double secret passage). *assumes you're still taking a 5ss healer, 13ss if not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assdex Posted July 8, 2021 Report Share Posted July 8, 2021 22 hours ago, fire5tone said: ...true but you now have 10 stones free, and the moment you do the plan you might potentially risk losing 18 stones without any attacks from the enemy team, and if i were them, that activated huckster looks like prime shooting potential, and this is telegraphed as all hell, so unless your fighting someone unfamiliar it shouldnt be too hard to save an attack or two for it to come by Yea no arguing. But a lot depends from enemy crew, and table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGatsby Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 It kills me to discuss how to get healing in the crew but no one has mentioned my beloved Tengu, poor birbs. The heals not great, but it's there and the flicker cost on the trigger to take it again is less of an issue now. Additionally, because I don't think anyone has brought it up yet; while not as flashing as stacking hazardous or throwing spider bombs at people, yokai seem really solid with this version of her now. Ephemeral warrior means that on an enemy turn, you get a free positive with from beyond plus a shielded. Flickering lanterns is once per activation, but each activation, you basically get a free from beyond which lets you place and then get a shielded (if within 8" of Asami of course). Doesn't seem shabby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageGatsby Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 Also, I'm trying to decide how potent the Huckster bomb, (tuck and huck?) is. If it was too much of an issue, spiritual invasion could easily be enemy only, but even saying it goes off, the huckster is so vulnerable I see this as being a bit too cute (ugly?). I guess Katashiro could eat injured for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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