Neverborn in July VWS!

[Devious Carnival]

Yea, I went against LJ last week and my biggest takeaway was to not go for a center fight. My opponent had Pale Rider as well which made for a very strong bubble with its shielded ability. I focused on leveraging my maneuverability to put pressure across the map (it was for Turf War, so the goal was to quickly reposition models after he committed to a quadrant).

[Maniacal_cackle]

UPDATE: Apparently there's a hotkey to add a soulstone to your pool and I accidentally pressed it. So we are calling it a tie instead, as the soulstone really mattered.

Victory! Narrowly won by one point, and would have tied if I hadn't flipped leap for Jackalope off the top of the deck xD

I deployed on the left. He shoved his whole crew north to control that part of the board. I sent Myranda solo to go do the southern markers, but it was a real hit to my crew to not have her around. But points are points.

Lady J just tore through my crew, and then ran out of soulstones and so I just sent every attack of turns 2/3/4 into her until she died.

I won initiative every single turn because Ancient Pact is broken and wins games. Without the Ancient Pacts I would have lost pretty badly. Just hands down would have tabled me I think xD

I recorded it, so will see if I can get someone to host the video

[Kiryn]

Sounds a good game.

Do you think crew choice was right? Might a Cerberus helped to go off solo to keep myranda with the crew?

Are you going to stick with Marcus for the next round still?

Just getting him built and painted to get him on the table so following with interest.

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

Sounds a good game.

Do you think crew choice was right? Might a Cerberus helped to go off solo to keep myranda with the crew?

Are you going to stick with Marcus for the next round still?

Just getting him built and painted to get him on the table so following with interest.

Mysterious Emissary was the big mistake. Would have happily dropped it.

In retrospect, yeah, a cerberus would have been good for covering a flank and threatening to kill a horse. And then I'd have 2 more stones to work with which would have been good!

EDIT: Oh, the problem with cerberus is he would just obey the upgrades off. So grootslang would have been better.

[Kiryn]

Why did the em not work? 

Ah yes, with the lawyer do you mean?

[Maniacal_cackle]

55 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

Why did the em not work? 

Ah yes, with the lawyer do you mean?

And The Jury! So he had two obeys. Although he didn't obey my models a single time, so I could have risked more... Especially on a flank cerberus which is too far to obey.

The Emissary didn't work very well because of range issues. If it got within range to blast Lady J, then she was in range to leap + sudden strike and kill him. Also the emissary was at a big range disadvantage against the Lone Marshal + Pale Rider (which could potentially take 2 shots at him for every 1 attack he got).

And really the Emissary could only capitalise on a big centre brawl, which I should have anticipated he was mobile enough to avoid.

So it was a matchup issue. I don't think Emissary is good into Lady J (or probably Guild in general) unless you're Zoraida.

[Maniacal_cackle]

So other Neverborn players...

Dixon is against bayou.

Will's Zoraida played against Konstantin's Titania and Will won.

Dominik is playing against Guild.

And Anton is against Andre's ES!

[Maniacal_cackle]

 

This is a LOT less smooth to watch than my ressers games, so I apologise. It takes me ages to figure out the right play each time. Thanks to my opponent for being such a good sport!

Also note that I accidentally add a soulstone, but we don't catch it until after the game, so the 6-5 score is actually a 6-6 score.

[Devious Carnival]

Great to watch and to see your thought process, thanks for sharing! I think I've struggled to go offensively with Chimera which has hurt me, so seeing how other players manage it is very helpful.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

7 hours ago, Devious Carnival said:

Great to watch and to see your thought process, thanks for sharing! I think I've struggled to go offensively with Chimera which has hurt me, so seeing how other players manage it is very helpful.

 

I was just thinking I haven't quite mastered going offensive with the crew, so definitely need to spend more time on that!

[Maniacal_cackle]

So round 2... Some lists I've come up with...

Note that my most likely opponents are Guild or ES next round, with ES being extremely likely.

 

• Marcus-Ancient Pact
• Jackalope
• Myranda
• Cojo
• Razorspine Rattler - Ancient Pact
• Serena Bowman
• Mysterious Emissary

This has good sustain for a brawl, so feels decent against bubble crews.  The Mysterious Emissary also helps with zone control. Feels terrible against explorer's society, though. And not great against Guild.

 

• Marcus - Ancient Pact
• Jackalope
• Cojo
• Myranda
• Adze
• Hooded Rider
• Razorspine Rattler - Ancient Pact

This one was one of my early lists. I had it when I thought Razorspine Rattler needed a backup, but it turns out I don't think I need one - the rest of the team is a good backup even if Rattler dies. The Adze can be tossed by Cojo and puts great pressure on my opponent's leyline carrier.

 

• Marcus - Ancient Pact
• Jackalope
• Cojo
• Myranda - Ancient Pact
• The Scorpius
• Adze
• Hooded Rider

This one was super early, when I was planning on using Rider as the main lodestone carrier. I think it isn't necessary. The Scorpius helps with brawling, though, since it is the best brawler in the keyword in many situations.

 

 

• Marcus
• Jackalope
• Cojo
• Razorspine Rattler - Ancient Pact
• Mysterious Emissary
• Hinamatsu
• Candy

Cojo can toss either Hina or Candy which is helpful for some crazy turn one plays. However, the weak spot of this is followup. That gives the opponent a bit of time to respond, and it takes a while before my crew is on top of them. So the crew outpaces itself a bit...

I'm not happy with any of these lists, though... So still tinkering.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm against Guild Lucius!

Looks like no emissary and planning around obeys is necessary again 😜

[Maniacal_cackle]

The lists!

Marcus vs Lucius

• Marcus w/ Ancient Pact
• Jacaklope
• Cojo
• Myranda
• Sabretooth Cerberus
• Hooded Rider
• Order initiate w/ Ancient Pact
• 2 stones

In playtesting, the crew was just too card hungry to be running like I was trying to run it. So I boosted it a bit with an Order Initiate for the card draw, but now have Hooded Rider as a backup lodestone carrier (as well as some other shenanigans).

Previously I've avoided using Cerberus against obeys, but I thought it was time I just give it a go and see how things go...

I feel like I'm missing some key beasts, but Myranda can transform into any of them so it should be fine.

Lucius vs Marcus (yes, we named our crews the same thing, but inverted).

• Lucius
• The Scribe
• Agent 46
• Dr. Grimwell
• Pale Rider
• 2 Guild Lawyers
• Changeling
• 5 stones

Really cool models in here and a fair bit of power, but he is missing some of the stuff I'd take for Guild Lucius. Looking forward to seeing how it goes!

We'll also be having a post-game strategic analysis to boost our games, so hopefully that is interesting as well

[admiralvorkraft]

Huh, I for sure would have taken Jury into this matchup. And I'm dubious on the value of a second lawyer. And I think the Pale Rider is trash, but that's a meta-commentary more than anything else.

Interested to see how Grimwell works, I've meant to try him a bunch and he keeps not making the cut...

[Maniacal_cackle]

7 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Huh, I for sure would have taken Jury into this matchup. And I'm dubious on the value of a second lawyer. And I think the Pale Rider is trash, but that's a meta-commentary more than anything else.

Interested to see how Grimwell works, I've meant to try him a bunch and he keeps not making the cut...

Jury is good, but lawyers can be commanded by Lucius so I'm not sure that jury is necessarily better?

Very scared of Grimwell. He can drain my hand, then Agent can do like 5 executes and eat my crew.

Pale rider being trash is a hot take I've never seen before xD. Care to elaborate?

[admiralvorkraft]

7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Jury is good, but lawyers can be commanded by Lucius so I'm not sure that jury is necessarily better?

Very scared of Grimwell. He can drain my hand, then Agent can do like 5 executes and eat my crew.

Pale rider being trash is a hot take I've never seen before xD. Care to elaborate?

Jury is good for a suited Obey that 46 and the Doppelganger can copy. I prefer multiple models to funnel Lucius' AP into over one end point on a long chain, though both have their uses.

That's what Grimwell does in my head for sure. I look at the resource cost of making it happen (not to mention all those executes to make it worth it) and I pick something else for my crew. But, like I said, I've never tried it to know one way or another.

Hotter take, all the riders are trash it's just that the Pale Rider comes up even more often than the others. Admittedly, this is like 40% a troll and 20% remembering how terrible the riders were in 2e. That said, Riders are pretty easy to put down if they come to play in the first couple turns, and I should be able to leverage my material advantage in those early turns if the Rider is holding back (yeah, Pale gets a couple shots in, okay). They also lose an immense amount of value to Stunned/Slow (as most big models do) and since you know you're going to see Pale in just about every Guild crew you just roll your eyes and tech for it, right?

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Jury is good for a suited Obey that 46 and the Doppelganger can copy. I prefer multiple models to funnel Lucius' AP into over one end point on a long chain, though both have their uses.

That's what Grimwell does in my head for sure. I look at the resource cost of making it happen (not to mention all those executes to make it worth it) and I pick something else for my crew. But, like I said, I've never tried it to know one way or another.

Hotter take, all the riders are trash it's just that the Pale Rider comes up even more often than the others. Admittedly, this is like 40% a troll and 20% remembering how terrible the riders were in 2e. That said, Riders are pretty easy to put down if they come to play in the first couple turns, and I should be able to leverage my material advantage in those early turns if the Rider is holding back (yeah, Pale gets a couple shots in, okay). They also lose an immense amount of value to Stunned/Slow (as most big models do) and since you know you're going to see Pale in just about every Guild crew you just roll your eyes and tech for it, right?

He has three models to funnel ap into (rider, agent, grimwell), so I think he is fine on that front.

I agree riders can be overhyper, but I think you're exagerrating some of their weaknesses. On leylines for instance they can have a productive early game claiming markers.

Though hooded rider is nowhere near as good as dead rider.

[SEV]

9 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Hotter take, all the riders are trash it's just that the Pale Rider comes up even more often than the others. Admittedly, this is like 40% a troll and 20% remembering how terrible the riders were in 2e. That said, Riders are pretty easy to put down if they come to play in the first couple turns, and I should be able to leverage my material advantage in those early turns if the Rider is holding back (yeah, Pale gets a couple shots in, okay). They also lose an immense amount of value to Stunned/Slow (as most big models do) and since you know you're going to see Pale in just about every Guild crew you just roll your eyes and tech for it, right?

Wow I'm burning! But you admit it yourself, this is 60% nonsense 😋.

Conveniently 40% of what you're saying makes sense. That doesn't make the riders thrash though just not a 11ss auto take in every game (fortunately - Dead and Pale are close though).

I do not agree that they're useless in the early game. They are amazing taxi (ride with me is one of the best bonus action in the game imo). And because of their mobility they can challenge any scheme runner on a flank and come back in to the fray t3+ with a shit load of fate token.

Yes they are vulnerable to WP attack and condition like slow and stuned but 1) they're WP 7; 2) just don't bring them against certain crew (for example bringing a rider against Dora or Z is just asking for trouble).

My (cooler) take : Rider are good (to great) versatile that happen to be well balanced. Well done wyrd (especially with the last errata to Mech).

Actually I agree with Cackle: Hooded is the worst (I still take him). He could be slightly buff 😋

[admiralvorkraft]

1 hour ago, SEV said:

Wow I'm burning! But you admit it yourself, this is 60% nonsense 😋.

Conveniently 40% of what you're saying makes sense. That doesn't make the riders thrash though just not a 11ss auto take in every game (fortunately - Dead and Pale are close though).

I do not agree that they're useless in the early game. They are amazing taxi (ride with me is one of the best bonus action in the game imo). And because of their mobility they can challenge any scheme runner on a flank and come back in to the fray t3+ with a shit load of fate token.

Yes they are vulnerable to WP attack and condition like slow and stuned but 1) they're WP 7; 2) just don't bring them against certain crew (for example bringing a rider against Dora or Z is just asking for trouble).

My (cooler) take : Rider are good (to great) versatile that happen to be well balanced. Well done wyrd (especially with the last errata to Mech).

Actually I agree with Cackle: Hooded is the worst (I still take him). He could be slightly buff 😋

Oh yeah, my actual opinions aren't as strong as my emotional response to the riders. 

Ride With Me is genuinely great and what I would take them for.

10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

He has three models to funnel ap into (rider, agent, grimwell), so I think he is fine on that front.

Oh, yes, sorry. I don't count the Rider or Grimwell because I don't plan around bouncing AP through the Lawyer do to the vagaries of Tools, but that's my thought process and no one else is obligated to follow it. Jury and the Mimic models let you maximize offensive obeys which is what I thought you were worried about (and what I would have planned for in this match-up).

[Maniacal_cackle]

14 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Oh yeah, my actual opinions aren't as strong as my emotional response to the riders. 

Ride With Me is genuinely great and what I would take them for.

Oh, yes, sorry. I don't count the Rider or Grimwell because I don't plan around bouncing AP through the Lawyer do to the vagaries of Tools, but that's my thought process and no one else is obligated to follow it. Jury and the Mimic models let you maximize offensive obeys which is what I thought you were worried about (and what I would have planned for in this match-up).

Interesting. I think I've only played the crew once, but since the mask lasts until the end phase, I found bouncing AP through the lawyer was frequently doable.

[Kiryn]

Think the hooded can be great. Used it last night and turn three moved to do the nuke, hit three models on pos dmg finished in base of a symbol and picked it up. Situational but also not that much due to 2 inch and base size etc.

Agree you need to be careful with them turn 1/2 but they're still a great taxi

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

Think the hooded can be great. Used it last night and turn three moved to do the nuke, hit three models on pos dmg finished in base of a symbol and picked it up. Situational but also not that much due to 2 inch and base size etc.

Agree you need to be careful with them turn 1/2 but they're still a great taxi

Yeah, it's pretty great! The thing I don't like about the Hooded is he has no utility beyond "just do tons of damage" it feels like, although I should probably start making better use of his "take a peak at the opponent's control hand.

[Kiryn]

Ha, that ability that just about everyone forgets he has! 

[Kiryn]

Still a great scheme runner or scheme runner hunter as well as an early turn taxi. Think it depends on crew, he's definitely not an auto take 

[admiralvorkraft]

6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Interesting. I think I've only played the crew once, but since the mask lasts until the end phase, I found bouncing AP through the lawyer was frequently doable.

I've had enough games with Lucius where it either didn't happen when I needed it, or forced my activation order in an unhelpful way, that I don't count on it.