Moved into Base Contact with Hazard Terrain

[Rufess]

The latest errata had changed the Hazard Terrain rule. Quoting from the document:

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Change the text of the first sentence from “…one of its Actions while in Hazardous Terrain, …” to “ …one of its Actions while in base contact or while in Hazardous Terrain, …”

The question here is that does the change applies to the whole paragraph, or does it only applies to the second part?

To rephrase the question more clear, if a model is moved(or pushed/placed) into base contact but not within a Hazard Terrain, will that model suffers the Hazard effect?

[Maniacal_cackle]

The VWS (unofficial) has ruled that it only applies to the second part (aka, movement to base contact doesn't count).

I don't think this makes any sense, but it is how it was ruled in the series.

I think you can argue it either way, and there is no official ruling.

[fire5tone]

I personally would think it does count because you would be in base contact with the marker during some part of the resolution step and it's still mostly the same wording only it applies to base aswell

[solkan]

According to Wyrd's download section, the end result appears to be:

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After a model moves through or resolves one of its Actions while in base contact with or while in Hazardous Terrain, it suffers the effects of the Hazardous Terrain after the current Action or Ability is resolved (to a maximum of once per Action or Ability). 

That's the file named M3E_Rules_Manual_4.2021.pdf, linked both on https://www.wyrd-games.net/m3e-languages.

Edit:  So the answer to the direct question appears to be:

If you manage to move into base contact, but not through, the hazardous terrain without being the one performing the action, then you won't suffer the effects of the hazardous terrain.  That would seem to require either deliberately wanting to set up the situation, or something being positioned perfectly at the limit of movement (either distance, or someone's placed a model blocking your entering the hazardous terrain).

🤷‍♀️

[Maniacal_cackle]

11 minutes ago, solkan said:

According to Wyrd's download section, the end result appears to be:

That's the file named M3E_Rules_Manual_4.2021.pdf, linked both on https://www.wyrd-games.net/m3e-languages.

Edit:  So the answer to the direct question appears to be:

If you manage to move into base contact, but not through, the hazardous terrain without being the one performing the action, then you won't suffer the effects of the hazardous terrain.  That would seem to require either deliberately wanting to set up the situation, or something being positioned perfectly at the limit of movement (either distance, or someone's placed a model blocking your entering the hazardous terrain).

🤷‍♀️

The flip side is - if only 'moving through' terrain counts, does placing into hazardous terrain count (such as if someone throws you with a trigger)?

[Mycellanious]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The flip side is - if only 'moving through' terrain counts, does placing into hazardous terrain count (such as if someone throws you with a trigger)?

Yes because if at any point during the move you are in the terrain you are considered to have moved through it. That's Core hazardous rules

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Mycellanious said:

Yes because if at any point during the move you are in the terrain you are considered to have moved through it. That's Core hazardous rules

 

Oh, sorry, where's it say that?

[Mycellanious]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh, sorry, where's it say that?

Apparently I misremembered, it says a model is considered to be Resolving an Action during every point of the "Resolve Actions" step, not during every part of a movement.

[Maniacal_cackle]

My personal theory is that when editing that section, they didn't think to remove the word through, and it should say:

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After a model moves, or resolves one of its Actions, while in base contact with or while in Hazardous Terrain, it suffers the effects of the Hazardous Terrain after the current Action or Ability is resolved (to a maximum of once per Action or Ability). 

 

[Alcathous]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

My personal theory is that when editing that section, they didn't think to remove the word through, and it should say:

I call foul. If you need to remove a word and add punctuation to get to the ruling you want, it's probably not the right ruling.

[Mycellanious]

Just now, Alcathous said:

I call foul. If you need to remove a word and add punctuation to get to the ruling you want, it's probably not the right ruling.

So then what happens if a model is thrown into Hazardous? Does it suffer the effects or not?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Alcathous said:

I call foul. If you need to remove a word and add punctuation to get to the ruling you want, it's probably not the right ruling.

Well, typos happen all the time, but then if we're doing that and applying the wording literally...

Then you only suffer hazardous when you move 'through' hazardous terrain (aka, if someone places you in hazardous terrain, you don't take the hazardous, correct?)

[Alcathous]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Then you only suffer hazardous when you move 'through' hazardous terrain (aka, if someone places you in hazardous terrain, you don't take the hazardous, correct?)

Place, Pg 15:

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If a model begins or ends a Place effect in terrain, it counts as having moved through that terrain.

 

[Mycellanious]

Just now, Alcathous said:

Place, Pg 15:

 

I knew I remembered it! Thats what I get for just searching "hazardous"

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Alcathous said:

Place, Pg 15:

 

Ah, perfect, that solves that one.

What about the moving 0" issue (i.e., if you move 0 inches while in hazardous terrain and not from your own action, do you take the hazardous?)

[Alcathous]

Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

What about the moving 0" issue (i.e., if you move 0 inches while in hazardous terrain and not from your own action, do you take the hazardous?)

I'm not certain about that one, but I've always played a 0" move counts as a Move effect.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Alcathous said:

I'm not certain about that one, but I've always played a 0" move counts as a Move effect.

It is definitely a move effect by the rules, but does it count as moving 'through' hazardous terrain?

Although of course to a degree I'm just being silly. I'm just pointing out the rules don't really work with the errata, and it wouldn't be the first time they haven't done an errata/FAQ perfectly.

To me, it seems like the rules as intended is that base contact is supposed to count for movement and actions.

Originally this didn't matter (there was no impassable hazardous terrain when M3E was created, but explorer's introduced it). So to me it makes sense that the rules didn't quite mesh with the base contact issue, and they attempted to errata it to fix it.

[Rufess]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

To me, it seems like the rules as intended is that base contact is supposed to count for movement and actions.

Originally this didn't matter (there was no impassable hazardous terrain when M3E was created, but explorer's introduced it). So to me it makes sense that the rules didn't quite mesh with the base contact issue, and they attempted to errata it to fix it.

The errata does fix the resolving action part, it just doesn't touch the moving part. So, unlike the previous "Another" issue, I cannot say if it is or not against dev's intend with 100% confidence.

I am currently maining Anya so it will benefit me a lot if I can push an enemy to a Geode Marker to ping it a damage. But I think I will just play RAW, i.e. no damage, until the next errata.

[NoisyAssassin]

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

...and it wouldn't be the first time they haven't done an errata/FAQ perfectly.

I really wish they would do more commentary along with the errata/FAQs, to make it clear what the intent is/what they're trying to address.