Ressers Building on a Budget

[Khyodee]

Hey folks, I could use some help on my Building on a Budget series of videos for S&S. The idea is to follow these guidelines:

1) Make a competitive list with some flexibility if possible

2) Limit the initial purchases to 2-3 boxes (less is better)

3) Focus on Keyword models followed by good Versatiles
4) Generally avoid non-faction models (except those in master box) and taxed models
 

The color coding is

-Green are first purchases (required or highly recommended)

-Yellow are second tier purchases to really tune your list

-Orange are third tier purchases that will improve your lists flexibility

-Red are optional purchases if you want them (the rest of the keyword and versatile models)

**5-14-21  UPDATED LISTS**








 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Eternal Servitude deserves a special mention - it is full of useful models that any crew can use, making it a good budget option for people who want to play multiple crews. Toshiro is a bit less useful now, but with Manos and Yin, it is probably still good for many crews. Dead Rider is another one that can slot in anywhere.

For Molly, I think you're roughly right. Molly + The Lost and you're pretty much set. After that, Dead Rider and Eternal Servitude are highest priority I think, so I'd make them yellow. Call to Madness doesn't even need to be  yellow, tbh.

For Reva, it depends if you're corpse Reva or burning reva.

Corpse Reva:  Reva's core box + the grave golem/bone pile box is green, and then Bete Noire's box and Dead Rider are yellow, and I guess the Lampad box can be yellow just because you want the restless spirit (but maybe mention that you can just get an M2E restless spirit/graveyard spirit or whatever).

Burning Reva: Not an expert, but I think you want core box + draugr + von schtook core box (for Anna Lovelace) for green. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Seamus, it depends. If you want to play him when he is good, I'd probably say something like his two main boxes + OOKs & Versatiles.

If you want to play him always, you need a carrion emissary thrown in there at the Green level. He can't play every single table without a Carrion Emissary.

Dead Rider, and maybe Eternal Servitude are the other main things I'd consider for that crew?

But I'm not very good there.

EDIT: Oh, and you need some nurses.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another thing to consider is how easy it is to collect combinations of crews:

• Molly and McMourning overlap on Rogue Necromancy, so can probably be combined into being easy to collect together.
• Seamus and Corpse Reva overlap on Bete Noire, so are a bit easier to collect together (although also I think they overlap on desirable pools a lot?)
• Seamus and McMourning overlap because Seamus loves nurses.
• Von Schtook and Burning Reva overlap on Anna Lovelace.
• Yan Lo and Everyone overlap on Eternal Servitude.
• Etc.

[Paddywhack]

With changes to VonSchtook I think Valedictorian vs the box with Viscera is a hard call. Viscera are brutal models.

For the Reva list I'm not sure I'd ever take all three Shieldbearers. I'd recommend making the Draugr a green (taking you to $101). It gives you a lot better options for crew construction and more Burning focus. If you want a Corpse focus then as Maniacal said you will need the Bring Out Your Dead soon so maybe make it yellow.

For Yan Lo I'd rank Descendants and Guardians over Dead Rider, even after the nerfs his crew received. Chiaki, Sun Quiang, and those Komainu are all great in keyword models. Maybe not necessarily in the Green, but above Dead Rider imo.

Sloth is great for several keywords - Seamus, McMourning, and VonSchtook for sure. Anyone that has mostly Undead models. Problem is he's in that box with all the others....

Asura is also and interesting pick for Seamus if you are staying in Keyword (not that many do). Most of his crew are Zombies so she can give an extra action to most of the crew (including Sybelle). I would rank her slightly higher for both Seamus and Reva honestly. Not an always take, but offers a lot when staying in keyword. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Ewwwww, one thing to note is that anything that makes mindless zombies can't make the zombies without buying Asura.

So not sure emissary should ever be recommended for a budget (unless you can do budget zombies).

Sloth can be replaced with custom models, but overall don't think it is a good budget recommendation?

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Ewwwww, one thing to note is that anything that makes mindless zombies can't make the zombies without buying Asura.

So not sure emissary should ever be recommended for a budget (unless you can do budget zombies).

Sloth can be replaced with custom models, but overall don't think it is a good budget recommendation?

Good note on Mindless Zombies. But, Asura is a pretty good model in her own right so definitely not a bad buy. Not in the green for anyone though. 

Sloth sadly is not good for any Budget constraints since he is only available in the big box. But he can be such a good model in a lot of crews (especially as a way to still get a Fast Valedictorian). You may mention that everyone is going to have that trouble with the Crossroads seven and maybe try and do a group order and split the cost of the box to make it better? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Something interesting might be "build a collection with 6 boxes or less" (singles like draugr or necropunks or rider count as half a box?)

I think budget for one crew can essentially starter box + one core, but for something competitive you really want 5-6 boxes I suspect.

[CateranLlama]

For burning Reva, just reverse Draugr and Lampad's box.  Wanyudo is really nice but a wild inconvenience to buy.  I'm not sure I wouldn't mark Mourners black.  I goofed off with them a bit in GG0, but haven't hired them since.  (Except that one time I decided to see if they'd make a difference OOK in Jack Daw vs something with Ruthless.) 

Don't forget the Rogue Necro for Molly.  It's probably not green quality, but probably above the Madness box. 

Where's your line between black and red, actually?  There's several crews I wouldn't consider hiring Bring Out Your Dead models in.  Molly, for example.  Jack Daw.  If you're going purely for budget, there's actually several "don't bother" versatile/crew combinations, I think. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

That's a good point. I got a grave digger early on for Grave Golem and Toshiro shenanigans, but I don't actually use it anymore. It's neat, but I don't think I'd ever recommend buying it to someone.

Restless Spirit is sorta a better option as most crews it can serve just as well, but with Reva it is way better.

Overall I think corpse generation isn't really efficient enough to be worthwhile outside of Reva and a few other niche situations.

[Khyodee]

Updated lists.

[Paddywhack]

Pretty good, but I'm not a super competitive player. I do think the Dead Rider is sometimes a bit higher than I would suggest, but I know others swear by him. 

Experimental I think you are going to want those Nurses before Dead Rider. Sad part is the rest of the box isn't great. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Drowned are often the best summon for Kirai, so I would definielt make that box Green.

[Paddywhack]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Drowned are often the best summon for Kirai, so I would definielt make that box Green.

Hard call. The Goryo are great models and also great summons. But I do love Drowned. I think on a limited budget I would get the Goryo first, but as soon as you can get the Drowned. Kirai certainly is the hardest to do on a budget. 

Edit - You could honestly switch the Drowned with the Shikome and Gaki. I know that messes with summons for Datsua, but that doesn't happen all that often. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Paddywhack
added bit

[Da Git]

I would 100% of the time be putting Lampads & Restless Spirit in green and Draugr in orange.

both models are basically auto-takes in my crews, especially post errata.

[Khyodee]

22 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Pretty good, but I'm not a super competitive player. I do think the Dead Rider is sometimes a bit higher than I would suggest, but I know others swear by him. 

Experimental I think you are going to want those Nurses before Dead Rider. Sad part is the rest of the box isn't great. 

I could see it going either way, but if you already have Rogue, the support models probably are a better first purchase. The original lists the boxes of the same color were just alphabetical and everyone thought it was purchasing order so I just changed it to be that.

[Khyodee]

18 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Drowned are often the best summon for Kirai, so I would definielt make that box Green.

Its already a $142 base box and your still missing options. So for budget reasons, I'm keeping them at yellow. That said if budget isn't an issue, then sure you should go ahead and pick them up.

[Khyodee]

1 hour ago, Da Git said:

I would 100% of the time be putting Lampads & Restless Spirit in green and Draugr in orange.

both models are basically auto-takes in my crews, especially post errata.

Lots of debate on this choice, so I just deferred the top ranked Reva player I know and he said Draugr.

[Da Git]

16 hours ago, Khyodee said:

Lots of debate on this choice, so I just deferred the top ranked Reva player I know and he said Draugr.

Fair enough. I'd be interested to know how he/she uses them. They've never done that much for me other than die fairly easily...

Pre-nerf, Lampads worked as a burning battery for Reva that could also put out some damage and tank. now they are loads better at damage output, moving pyres and tanking (especially with GST).

Besides that, I always take the Restless spirit to provide some extra corpses for Blasphemous Ritual, attack vectors or other purposes (Bete/Toshiro/Grave Golem) and give Shielded.

[Maniacal_cackle]

8 minutes ago, Da Git said:

Fair enough. I'd be interested to know how he/she uses them. They've never done that much for me other than die fairly easily...

Pre-nerf, Lampads worked as a burning battery for Reva that could also put out some damage and tank. now they are loads better at damage output, moving pyres and tanking (especially with GST).

Besides that, I always take the Restless spirit to provide some extra corpses for Blasphemous Ritual, attack vectors or other purposes (Bete/Toshiro/Grave Golem) and give Shielded.

I think Pergli (PersonalGlitch) uses Draugr a lot, so if you're curious you can check out videos of him playing on YouTube.

[Lillian H]

How does the Hats Off box do in all this? If I got that with the Seamus Core box would that be a good start for Redchapel?

[fire5tone]

33 minutes ago, Lillian H said:

How does the Hats Off box do in all this? If I got that with the Seamus Core box would that be a good start for Redchapel?

No.

That's barely enough to get you to 30 stones (the main game is 50) if your going Seamus in keyword you need high society

 

ESPECIALLY with hats off since that title summons

[Lillian H]

1 hour ago, fire5tone said:

No.

That's barely enough to get you to 30 stones (the main game is 50) if your going Seamus in keyword you need high society

 

ESPECIALLY with hats off since that title summons

Okay! So Seamus Core box, high society and Hats off would be a good start? Or would it be better to go with the Big Hat keyword for the Hats Off? Is it not worth getting at all? I'm totally new and figuring out what to get for first time players. Thanks for the help!

 

I should note, we don't have any stores in the area that carry Malifaux so I can't go in and physically look at the things which is usually how I prefer to figure things like this out. I really appreciate the spreadsheet! Spreadsheet! Spreadsheet! Woo! 

[Adran]

Hats off doesn't do much for reaching a valid list, because it's an alternative version of the master and the white rabbit company. It is very good for letting you have different ways to play, so after you reach playable models it does offer good variation. 

Last year every master got an alternative version and a shared model, but I don't think people have updated their budget lists with those new options, but then as I said earlier I wouldn't generally put those boxes in an early buy because they don't give you much value to start with, but as you get a larger collection they provide more value. If you like the box then it's still worth getting, but I wouldn't  replace any of the boxes in the building on a budget suggestions but rather plan on it in addition to the suggestion.  

[fire5tone]

35 minutes ago, Lillian H said:

Okay! So Seamus Core box, high society and Hats off would be a good start? Or would it be better to go with the Big Hat keyword for the Hats Off? Is it not worth getting at all? I'm totally new and figuring out what to get for first time players. Thanks for the help!

 

I should note, we don't have any stores in the area that carry Malifaux so I can't go in and physically look at the things which is usually how I prefer to figure things like this out. I really appreciate the spreadsheet! Spreadsheet! Spreadsheet! Woo! 

somer is... one of the worst masters in the entire game now, (though gg3 is still kinda up in the air)

seamus core, high society and hats off should be good though, his keyword tends to lag behind seamus (1) himself so without anyone else in faction hes not as good as he could be, but is more than alright. however it is worth asking if anyone else in faction appears interesting for future expansion

if you arent aware, boxes like hats off are called title boxes, and the masters inside can be used instead of the version inside core, allowing multiple different crew strengths and playstyles. whether they're worth an early purchase depends on master (brewmaster for example *really* wants his) , seamus aint in much a rush but also stuff like mourners arent particularly useful so its still a good grab. the versions of the master are typically labeled 1 (core) and 2 (title)

also, not sure if its at all interesting but you can always try out faux online via vassal or TTS to see if those masters and/or keywords are somethin you wanna commit to, but so-as not to to hog this thread just dm me if that sounds interesting