New Sonia Title

[Maniacal_cackle]

12 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

Perhaps they should consider adding destructible to pyre markers

I think they work fine as non-destructible because they're not impassable (same as Titania's Underbrush).

And while these ones can affect incorporeal models, the only way to get them on the table is with Sonnia or for your opponent to do it for you, right?

[Angelshard]

@Maniacal_cackle My main beef with them is the severe trait. Against Titania I can tech in unimpeded and get through. Sure there might not be the same amount, but Sonia can place them a lot better that fae, after deployment, and two markers in a choke point would take a rider from mv 7 to mv3.5. He wouldn't even get through the markers. I might be over reacting and it isn't that bad, but in GG2, where movement seems to be key I can see these being incredibly strong. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

32 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

@Maniacal_cackle My main beef with them is the severe trait. Against Titania I can tech in unimpeded and get through. Sure there might not be the same amount, but Sonia can place them a lot better that fae, after deployment, and two markers in a choke point would take a rider from mv 7 to mv3.5. He wouldn't even get through the markers. I might be over reacting and it isn't that bad, but in GG2, where movement seems to be key I can see these being incredibly strong. 

I think you can still tech, just different tech.  Flight and other places is the way to go.

[whitters]

The new title looks interesting and I love the idea of changing up how masters play. Do we know if the totems will change? Would be great if they release a card pack for the alternative masters, maybe including GG2. Or do we expect every alternate card will be linked to a new model?

My problem with Sonia was always more her crew than her card (except Spell Eaters) but I'm hoping the versatile models in the new starter will fix that. If the mages allow some more mobility that would help a lot. Then again so would making rough riders guild and versatile 😄

[theamazingmrg]

I love this new, I'm-so-angry-I'm-just-going-to-burn-everything Sonnia.

 

My question though:  Does it make Quellers better?  Sonnia Unmasked will inevitably end up burning her own guys quite often.  She will want the positive flips.  Does it also make the Quellers reduce-Burning-for-a-Scheme-Marker  more effective if you're fuelling it with Burning on your own guys rather than taking it off enemies?

[theamazingmrg]

3 hours ago, whitters said:

The new title looks interesting and I love the idea of changing up how masters play. Do we know if the totems will change? Would be great if they release a card pack for the alternative masters, maybe including GG2. Or do we expect every alternate card will be linked to a new model?

My problem with Sonia was always more her crew than her card (except Spell Eaters) but I'm hoping the versatile models in the new starter will fix that. If the mages allow some more mobility that would help a lot. Then again so would making rough riders guild and versatile 😄

Her crews mobility has never been too awful.  creep along on Sam, Handlers Mv buff for Witchlings, Drawn to Pain on the Witchlings (which new Sonnia can potentially let them attack off now too!), and the Purifying Flame was always quick.  It was Spellcasters, Quellers, and Sonnia herself that were the problem!

[trikk]

16 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

I love this new, I'm-so-angry-I'm-just-going-to-burn-everything Sonnia.

 

My question though:  Does it make Quellers better?  Sonnia Unmasked will inevitably end up burning her own guys quite often.  She will want the positive flips.  Does it also make the Quellers reduce-Burning-for-a-Scheme-Marker  more effective if you're fuelling it with Burning on your own guys rather than taking it off enemies?

It doesn't as I Didn't Start The Fire is Enemy only

9 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

Her crews mobility has never been too awful.  creep along on Sam, Handlers Mv buff for Witchlings, Drawn to Pain on the Witchlings (which new Sonnia can potentially let them attack off now too!), and the Purifying Flame was always quick.  It was Spellcasters, Quellers, and Sonnia herself that were the problem!

Her crews mobility had a big issue of not being in any direction. The new towards/away rules help that and so does Burn Them Out

[theamazingmrg]

9 minutes ago, trikk said:

It doesn't as I Didn't Start The Fire is Enemy only

Good point.  I even checked that before writing and somehow completely missed the end of the sentence!

[Gaston]

@Angelshard You can still remove them with marker removal abilities.

[Angelshard]

True, but that is a good bit rarer than unimpeded, blow it to hell or the universal remove terrain action. 

[DuBlanck]

19 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I'm hoping we get titles with different sizes/bases

I'm really hoping we don't, because needing new models will make playing new titles difficult over the next year or so hard if global logistics remains totally shagged. And yes, you can proxy, but I don't own a 50mm Lucius stand-in (for example) and I don't want to just stick him to a 50mm.

[SEV]

8 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Since focus caps at +2, I'm guessing this involves the red joker... xD

3 severe damage + bonus action (with a 6 of crow or higher + a stone for an other crow). If I'm not mistaken this is 9 pyre in one activation.

[Adran]

25 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

True, but that is a good bit rarer than unimpeded, blow it to hell or the universal remove terrain action. 

Marker removal seems to be coming a little more common (although that might just be explorers). Facing Sonnia now will mean you have to be prepared for both versions. It'll be interesting to see how many Pyre markers new Sonnia typically puts on the table. If you can cope with the mobility then you may just need ways to end the burning...

 

7 minutes ago, SEV said:

3 severe damage + bonus action (with a 6 of crow or higher + a stone for an other crow). If I'm not mistaken this is 9 pyre in one activation.

It is 9, but getting 3 lots of severe damage is not easy (which is where I think the talk of the red joker was coming in) especially since Focus is now limited to +2 so you can't use it on all 3 actions.  

[SEV]

36 minutes ago, Adran said:

Oui It is 9, but getting 3 lots of severe damage is not easy (which is where I think the talk of the red joker was coming in) especially since Focus is now limited to +2 so you can't use it on all 3 actions.  

Totally agree! Hence the challenge to all Sonia player. If you achieve it you can than try the good level challenge: 40+ pyre markers in a game! I mean if you play Sonia it's not to win, it's too see those heretic burn 😋

[A_Rabid Nun]

I am really looking forward to the title optional rules....but

 

I hate to be that guy. Isn't Confiscated Lore a little over the top?  Sure it is a once per activation action, but it only needs a 5 of any suit and then 2 really nice triggers.

Then there is the 5 card shenanigans.  how easily to set up an opponent to draw lowcards for the next few duels or conveniently place that black joker, or discard the red joker. An action that doesn't even require any LOS or range it just happens with a 5.  Alot of people were grumbling about Zoraidas ability to look at one card but that needed LOS to a cheating enemy model.

Seriously if my opponent drops that Sonnia on the board I don't think I will continue playing knowing that every turn they will be able to dictate my card draw for up to 5 cards (5 duels or actions).  3 would be more reasonable or at least needing a suit or to forefill a requirement like Zoraida. 

I hope that the other masters have similar WOW abilities.  Just feels OP to me.

[Spratford]

12 minutes ago, A_Rabid Nun said:

It is subject to change, but I do agree. I think lowering it to three could work. 
or keep it at 5, put back in same order rather than any. 
or even damage her for each card discarded. 
 

However I am no pro by any means and for all I know it could be super balanced.

[Adran]

7 minutes ago, A_Rabid Nun said:

I am really looking forward to the title optional rules....but

 

I hate to be that guy. Isn't Confiscated Lore a little over the top?  Sure it is a once per activation action, but it only needs a 5 of any suit and then 2 really nice triggers.

Then there is the 5 card shenanigans.  how easily to set up an opponent to draw lowcards for the next few duels or conveniently place that black joker, or discard the red joker. An action that doesn't even require any LOS or range it just happens with a 5.  Alot of people were grumbling about Zoraidas ability to look at one card but that needed LOS to a cheating enemy model.

Seriously if my opponent drops that Sonnia on the board I don't think I will continue playing knowing that every turn they will be able to dictate my card draw for up to 5 cards (5 duels or actions).  3 would be more reasonable or at least needing a suit or to forefill a requirement like Zoraida. 

 

It looks good, but its probably not going to give Sonnia 5 cards in most cases. (I assume she is likely to discard any 8+ cards). But even in the worst case, she has her 2 attacks against you knowing your flip cards, and even then she is likely to struggle to get both onto cheatable flips, and then you get to activate a model and have an idea of how many "bad" cards you have to try and use up in your activation before you are into an unknown deck again. Its probably not too hard to use up 2 or 3 cards on a relatively pointless action if you have to. It is then also messing with your activation order.

 

[Thatguy]

13 minutes ago, A_Rabid Nun said:

I hate to be that guy. Isn't Confiscated Lore a little over the top?  Sure it is a once per activation action, but it only needs a 5 of any suit and then 2 really nice triggers

I'm a little concerned about it too. I'm hoping it is *subject to change'd.

I think once a turn, it's a really powerful ability. But with copying/obeying like someone mentioned up thread, it could end up filtering like half the opponent's deck. Like the reverse of the Lucid Dreaming they just errata'd.

[Adran]

16 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I'm a little concerned about it too. I'm hoping it is *subject to change'd.

I think once a turn, it's a really powerful ability. But with copying/obeying like someone mentioned up thread, it could end up filtering like half the opponent's deck. Like the reverse of the Lucid Dreaming they just errata'd.

As far as I know, (and I may have missed something) there is nothing in guild that can copy an action off a masters card, and none of the obey-like abilities that work on a master. So it is just one shot of it each turn. 

 

EDIT- Curse you mimics, slipping in when I'm not looking. Just like you on a changeling can copy it if you have started with Lucius as a Leader. Thank you Trikk. (Although I'm a little unsure how much use it really is to them to use it. To the table...)

[trikk]

2 minutes ago, Adran said:

As far as I know, (and I may have missed something) there is nothing in guild that can copy an action off a masters card, and none of the obey-like abilities that work on a master. So it is just one shot of it each turn. 

You can hire her in Lucius with Changelings, but that's 20-24 or 28 SS locked into just card manipulation whch can be frustrating but ultimately will give you nothing in terms of VP.

 

As for Confiscated Lore: it costs an action which means you will either forfeit a shot or a Burn Them Out which is huge.

[A_Rabid Nun]

1 hour ago, trikk said:

 

As for Confiscated Lore: it costs an action which means you will either forfeit a shot or a Burn Them Out which is huge.

Yes, but if you choose your list to play around that so she runs a good support role while throwing out damage when needed, once she is up far enough with 3 actions, I think setting up your opponent for a bad few draws or tossing out their next 2 or 3 high cards is worth it.  I think that if I had to choose between throwing two attacks relying on my card draw (possibly cheat) or one attack and I could manipulate their draw so they need to cheat or worse yet a black joker, I would go for the later unless I certainly had good cards already in my hand.  Guild doesnt have much in terms of card draw if I am right, so card denial to our opponent is pretty good espeically when you play the psychologic game.

[trikk]

56 minutes ago, A_Rabid Nun said:

Yes, but if you choose your list to play around that so she runs a good support role while throwing out damage when needed, once she is up far enough with 3 actions, I think setting up your opponent for a bad few draws or tossing out their next 2 or 3 high cards is worth it.  I think that if I had to choose between throwing two attacks relying on my card draw (possibly cheat) or one attack and I could manipulate their draw so they need to cheat or worse yet a black joker, I would go for the later unless I certainly had good cards already in my hand.  Guild doesnt have much in terms of card draw if I am right, so card denial to our opponent is pretty good espeically when you play the psychologic game.

This Sonnia can generate a lot of positive flips so card draw isn't that important. It's a good action but it's also a hard choice.

[Thatguy]

5 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

I'm really hoping we don't, because needing new models will make playing new titles difficult over the next year or so hard if global logistics remains totally shagged. And yes, you can proxy, but I don't own a 50mm Lucius stand-in (for example) and I don't want to just stick him to a 50mm.

I think it's possible. From the dual box release it looks like some masters will get new models. Different sizes offers opportunity to sell new models which is good for a model company. Getting to see more Avatar like ideas, like pic related, is cool too me at least.

I think sticky tacking a smaller base to a larger one isn't a huge ask for a couple months while awaiting a new model. I don't think anyone is going to downgrade base sizes, unless Euripides goes on a diet.

 

[muraki]

5 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

5 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

I'm really hoping we don't, because needing new models will make playing new titles difficult over the next year or so hard if global logistics remains totally shagged. And yes, you can proxy, but I don't own a 50mm Lucius stand-in (for example) and I don't want to just stick him to a 50mm.

I think it's possible. From the dual box release it looks like some masters will get new models. Different sizes offers opportunity to sell new models which is good for a model company. Getting to see more Avatar like ideas, like pic related, is cool too me at least.

I think sticky tacking a smaller base to a larger one isn't a huge ask for a couple months while awaiting a new model. I don't think anyone is going to downgrade base sizes, unless Euripides goes on a diet.

I was thinking about this myself.  I have so many copies of some masters (looking at you Raspy) that I almost wish she would change her base size, just so I have a reason to paint up + use a new beautiful raspy sculpt.  So I'd almost like it if most of them changed base size a bit so I have motivation to paint/field a new version of them (as I know if I have 2 painted models on the same base size i'll just gravitate to the one I like the paintjob of better).

Don't get me wrong, I'll buy 10 more alts of every master if Wyrd lets me, they probably just wont get painted unless they're way cooler than the version I already have painted.

[Adran]

2 hours ago, A_Rabid Nun said:

Yes, but if you choose your list to play around that so she runs a good support role while throwing out damage when needed, once she is up far enough with 3 actions, I think setting up your opponent for a bad few draws or tossing out their next 2 or 3 high cards is worth it.  I think that if I had to choose between throwing two attacks relying on my card draw (possibly cheat) or one attack and I could manipulate their draw so they need to cheat or worse yet a black joker, I would go for the later unless I certainly had good cards already in my hand.  Guild doesnt have much in terms of card draw if I am right, so card denial to our opponent is pretty good espeically when you play the psychologic game.

You are only getting knowledge of half the duel. Don't get me wrong, it's good, and you know what you can cheat, but you don't know what the opponent can cheat. You may know they are only flipping a 4, but you still might flip lower than them. ( obviously less likely if you can get positive flips). The only guarantee is if you know the card and stat are below your stats. Knowing the black joker is coming up is also nice but not that common.