Obey/Control & Friendly/Enemy

[MisterWerks]

I know this issue is a moo point to many who have seen it asked repeatedly, but I need this clarification.

Model A uses Obey on Model B and has Model B Interact/drop a Scheme Marker.  The question is on the alignment of that Scheme Marker.

p28 says, "When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it."

p26 says, "Regardless of control, the model does not change which models it considers friendly and which it considers enemy.  Control changes who makes the decisions; it does not change the Crew to which the model belongs."

I interpreted the p28 rule to simply say "if you drop it, it's friendly to you."  I interpret the p26 rule to say, "I may force you to drop it, but it's still friendly to you because you're still part of your Crew."

 

[solkan]

44 minutes ago, MisterWerks said:

I interpreted the p28 rule to simply say "if you drop it, it's friendly to you."  I interpret the p26 rule to say, "I may force you to drop it, but it's still friendly to you because you're still part of your Crew."

You need to learn the difference between ownership and control.  

You’re wrong about page 28.  It doesn’t say “If you drop it, it’s friendly to you.”  (That was M2E’s rule.) Page 28 say “If you drop it, it’s friendly to whoever controlled the action you just took.” 

Model A uses Obey on Model B, to interact and drop a scheme marker.  That marker is friendly to whoever is controlling Model A.

Disclaimer:  The rules for strategies vary so wildly, you have to check what the strategy says.  

[regleant]

And I agree with Solkan's answer, except for the fact that Wyrd answered it the opposite way in their training videos on YouTube. I even asked this question in the comments:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUV0-8f9DIM&t=2s when you drop a Scheme marker, it is friendly to your opponent, not friendly to you. I imagine Wyrd's videos and responses to commons are law?

[Jinn]

14 minutes ago, regleant said:

And I agree with Solkan's answer, except for the fact that Wyrd answered it the opposite way in their training videos on YouTube. I even asked this question in the comments:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUV0-8f9DIM&t=2s when you drop a Scheme marker, it is friendly to your opponent, not friendly to you. I imagine Wyrd's videos and responses to commons are law?

That isn't Wyrd's video. There is a disclaimer in the video details that explicitly disavows being an official Wyrd channel.

[Adran]

4 hours ago, regleant said:

And I agree with Solkan's answer, except for the fact that Wyrd answered it the opposite way in their training videos on YouTube. I even asked this question in the comments:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUV0-8f9DIM&t=2s when you drop a Scheme marker, it is friendly to your opponent, not friendly to you. I imagine Wyrd's videos and responses to commons are law?

For what it's worth what is "law" is the rulebook, errata and faq.

Nothing else.

It's why Wyrd don't answer rules questions on the forums to stop rules being hidden in multiple places. 

[solkan]

9 hours ago, regleant said:

And I agree with Solkan's answer, except for the fact that Wyrd answered it the opposite way in their training videos on YouTube. I even asked this question in the comments:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUV0-8f9DIM&t=2s when you drop a Scheme marker, it is friendly to your opponent, not friendly to you. I imagine Wyrd's videos and responses to commons are law?

I have no idea who produces the "Malifaux University" videos, or owns that channel, but it's not an official Wyrd product.  That's why they include the disclaimer:

Quote

 

Malifaux University is not an official product of Wyrd Minautres, LLC. All intellectual property belonging to Wyrd Miniatures is used with permission.
 

And please check the most recent comments on that thread, there's a comment by the channel that they made a mistake.  (It's understandable, really.  There are lots of details, and in this case the rules used to be subtly yet significantly different.)

[regleant]

Now I’m confused again. 🤣

 

If you control an enemy model to drop a scheme marker, it drops yours. But if you control an enemy model to attack another enemy model, does it burn Distracted, since Distracted comes into play when one model attacks an enemy model. 
 

If not, how does the model count as both Enemy and Friendly at the same time?

[santaclaws01]

1 minute ago, regleant said:

Now I’m confused again. 🤣

 

If you control an enemy model to drop a scheme marker, it drops yours. But if you control an enemy model to attack another enemy model, does it burn Distracted, since Distracted comes into play when one model attacks an enemy model. 
 

If not, how does the model count as both Enemy and Friendly at the same time?

It doesn't count as friendly and enemy. What matters for markers is which player is controlling the action, not what crew the controlled model is in.

[Mycellanious]

29 minutes ago, regleant said:

Now I’m confused again. 🤣

 

If you control an enemy model to drop a scheme marker, it drops yours. But if you control an enemy model to attack another enemy model, does it burn Distracted, since Distracted comes into play when one model attacks an enemy model. 
 

If not, how does the model count as both Enemy and Friendly at the same time?

What is confusing you is that the game makes a distinction between *friendly-controlled* and *friendly*

Models NEVER change who they think is friendly or enemy. Things like Obey control them to take Actions against their will. 

So if you Obey a Peacekeeper to attack Hoffman, Hoffman could actually Relent if he wanted because both models are still friendly to eachother even while the PK is controlled by an Enemy. Furthermore, Hoffman could NOT use Protected, because the PK is NOT an enemy model. 

[regleant]

Found it on Page 26. Appreciate the help from everyone (in this thread and others!)

[MisterWerks]

Folks, 

Thank you for being part of the discussion.  I received answers affirming both views here, in email, and on Facebook.  I got the straight dope from on high: the rule on p28 is the solution, as several have said.  When Model A Controls Model B, ANY marker Model B drops through that Control is friendly to Model A.