GG2 Changes to Mccabe

[Maniacal_cackle]

14 minutes ago, kalcan said:

Yeah perhaps you’re right in that that was too hot a take haha. I think I just relied too heavily and pre errata trained ninja to keep him safe. My regular opponents now just kill him. 5df/5wp 8hp with his only defensive tech being leap aside trigger, maybe I just play him too aggressively. Two fast husksters is usually all I need for scheming, and there are better damage dealers in faction so I guess he just feels redundant. 

Makes sense! I can see that if you don't need his scheming power, he is a pretty subpar take.

[belorey]

3 hours ago, kalcan said:

Yeah perhaps you’re right in that that was too hot a take haha. I think I just relied too heavily and pre errata trained ninja to keep him safe. My regular opponents now just kill him. 5df/5wp 8hp with his only defensive tech being leap aside trigger, maybe I just play him too aggressively. Two fast husksters is usually all I need for scheming, and there are better damage dealers in faction so I guess he just feels redundant. 

Try to actívate last in a turn with an artifact to get fast, then go and charge a henchman/máster and steal 2/3 soulstones, do It again at the beggining of the turn and if u stole 1/2ss he would become a 4ss model. 

[Jinn]

6 hours ago, belorey said:

Try to actívate last in a turn with an artifact to get fast, then go and charge a henchman/máster and steal 2/3 soulstones, do It again at the beggining of the turn and if u stole 1/2ss he would become a 4ss model. 

That's not a great way to look at it in my opinion. It's costing you an AP (and possibly a high card, definitely not guaranteed) per stone (2ss swing though) on an 8 cost, and a vulnerable one at that and you're putting him in melee with likely a dangerous foe. It may be valuable to do this in certain situations but I wouldn't think of it as a "free" 2-3 stones.

[belorey]

16 minutes ago, Jinn said:

That's not a great way to look at it in my opinion. It's costing you an AP (and possibly a high card, definitely not guaranteed) per stone (2ss swing though) on an 8 cost, and a vulnerable one at that and you're putting him in melee with likely a dangerous foe. It may be valuable to do this in certain situations but I wouldn't think of it as a "free" 2-3 stones.

Yes because u can use those Stones to protect him. You have the movilitie with him (plus a RwM if needed) so you choose when attack and Who. I have done couple times and works very well.

[j3diii]

I just recently got into Malifaux and this is my first post on these forums. I've played maybe 15-20 games, combination of Vassal and table, at this point and I'm still just getting my footing when it comes to schemes and strats.  I have 4 complete masters in NB Nek, Dreamer, Dora, and Titania with all the versatiles and some ook. I have also picked up 10T with McCabe, Lynch, and Misaki. I started playing everything post April errata, and the tactica and podcasts I found for McCabe were all out of date.

Sorry for the intro, but I thought it was warranted to establish myself as a new player, and probably clueless about some parts of the game. I'm fortunate that the group i'm playing with mostly has the same level of experience, but we are also competitive gamers and have done well in the Infinity scene on a national level. We're picking up the game really fast and so far I'm absolutely in love with the Faux.

I am unreasonably excited about my Rollins Black crew and was thrilled to see this thread get some more posts. I'm currently trying to get more reps in with my Neverborn masters as were going to have a house event competition later in the month where there will be two other 10T players so I want to mix it up some.

I have only played one game with Rollins at this point. That said, I'm pretty sure he's going to be one of my favorite masters and see a lot of table time.  

So I have some questions and observations, I'll probably make my own post at some point, but this thread seems like a good place to start.
 

On 7/16/2021 at 2:43 PM, kalcan said:

I can't figure out if using a non-mask 7+ on a cryptologist for card draw (antique timepiece > looted supplies) is worth it, but I know using a 9 without adventure awaits is definitely not worth it. I wish the trigger on antique timepiece did not have the stipulation that you can't use an ability to attach upgrades, as I feel it would be a good ability to use on McCabe turn 1 to not use up one of his AP to dish out a relic. I'm not sure where the cryptologist's place is right now, but I have a feeling it's on the bench.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Crypto's Antique Timepiece also activate Paid With Trinkets on the artifact upgrade, so if the upgraded model had already gotten Fast at activation start it could get Fast again for it's next activation if it had received the Artifact that turn? This probably isn't reason enough for the Crypto, but it can help if you want to keep the artifact on a unit, don't want to make a new one, or win ini to go first with the model being Fast next turn.

I've been looking at using him to Instinctual Response trigger on Jessi to copy Archeological Dig and get Scrap + Stone twice in a turn, but it seems too AP intensive and Hucksters really do make Scrap much more easily. Probably not worth it.  
 

On 7/16/2021 at 2:43 PM, kalcan said:

When I have the scheme pool to choose McCabe, it's usually because I know that 2 Hucksters can score me 4 points on schemes, they are just so good. I definitely spend the stones to give them stealth upgrade if I suspect my opponent will have heavy ranged damage or abilities that will mess with their actions.

Could you identify which schemes you think he's good at? Maybe which Strats too? Opponents he may struggle with?

Correctly picking S&S or masters to go with pools has been one of my bigger hurdles so far. I think I know which ones he's probably good at, but I'd love to hear your opinion.

On 7/16/2021 at 2:43 PM, kalcan said:

Overall, he seems more like a fast scheming support master which I feel like was the intent from the beginning. At least I always play some in keyword models now in Hucksters, rather than only sometimes before the change, but still probably mostly OKK or versatile. Rest of the keyword still feels kind of bad... but McCabe is definitely fun and capable of taking games. Oh and I still hit black joker on a pass the artifact in two different games despite only needing a 2+ now... lame haha 

I'm curious what you typically run with him.

In my one game, versus Von Schill, I had a very hard time doing any damage at all but was able to keep the score close and if it weren't for 2 Black Jokers at bad times it probably would have been an 8-8 tie, it ended 6-8 and I made some major mistakes that Rollins' speed was able to make up for. I also hit a BJ on an artifact toss, trashing a Paid with Trinkets chain, and hobbled my 1st turn plans.  

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 hours ago, j3diii said:

I just recently got into Malifaux and this is my first post on these forums. I've played maybe 15-20 games, combination of Vassal and table, at this point and I'm still just getting my footing when it comes to schemes and strats.  I have 4 complete masters in NB Nek, Dreamer, Dora, and Titania with all the versatiles and some ook. I have also picked up 10T with McCabe, Lynch, and Misaki. I started playing everything post April errata, and the tactica and podcasts I found for McCabe were all out of date.

Sorry for the intro, but I thought it was warranted to establish myself as a new player, and probably clueless about some parts of the game. I'm fortunate that the group i'm playing with mostly has the same level of experience, but we are also competitive gamers and have done well in the Infinity scene on a national level. We're picking up the game really fast and so far I'm absolutely in love with the Faux.

I am unreasonably excited about my Rollins Black crew and was thrilled to see this thread get some more posts. I'm currently trying to get more reps in with my Neverborn masters as were going to have a house event competition later in the month where there will be two other 10T players so I want to mix it up some.

I have only played one game with Rollins at this point. That said, I'm pretty sure he's going to be one of my favorite masters and see a lot of table time.  

So I have some questions and observations, I'll probably make my own post at some point, but this thread seems like a good place to start.
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Crypto's Antique Timepiece also activate Paid With Trinkets on the artifact upgrade, so if the upgraded model had already gotten Fast at activation start it could get Fast again for it's next activation if it had received the Artifact that turn? This probably isn't reason enough for the Crypto, but it can help if you want to keep the artifact on a unit or don't want to make a new one.

I've been looking at using him to Instinctual Response trigger on Jessi to copy Archeological Dig and get Scrap + Stone twice in a turn, but it seems too AP intensive and Hucksters really do make Scrap much more easily. Probably not worth it.  
 

Could you identify which schemes you think he's good at? Maybe which Strats too? Opponents he may struggle with?

Correctly picking S&S or masters to go with pools has been one of my bigger hurdles so far. I think I know which ones he's probably good at, but I'd love to hear your opinion.

I'm curious what you typically run with him.

In my one game, versus Von Schill, I had a very hard time doing any damage at all but was able to keep the score close and if it weren't for 2 Black Jokers at bad times it probably would have been an 8-8 tie, it ended 6-8 and I made some major mistakes that Rollins' speed was able to make up for. I also hit a BJ on an artifact toss trashing a Paid with Trinkets chain and hobbling my 1st turn plans.  

Great first post, but the fast combo with cryptologist works and I think is probably the best combo with him in keyword.

He is better in Cadmus obviously, but now that he has a lower TN in wastrel I think he merits testing. Possibility of an obey too! And niche condition removal - imagine removing slow and giving fast in one bonus action, plus an obey xD

[kalcan]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:56 AM, j3diii said:

 

Could you identify which schemes you think he's good at? Maybe which Strats too? Opponents he may struggle with?
 

For strats, he's my go to in Symbols. Desper and hucksters along with mobility from McCabe makes it very easy to score points. He's not bad in lay lines, but you can't place (secret passage/leap/target of ride with me) the lode stone model so it can be tricky. I like to put it on McCabe since he is so fast, and he can bring a model with rwm to interact with strategy markers, get in place so a fast huckster can secret passage (x2 if needed) to interact with strategy markers, or just do it himself. Stealthed rough riders are also a good choice to put the marker on. McCabe can do turf war but I think Yan Lo or Misaki do it better. If good strats for hucksters are available then I consider McCabe. I like tankier crews and fightier schemes for Break the Line, typically Yan Lo. Desper can be great with don't mind me though.

For schemes, breakthrough (secret passage [x2 if needed] and false claim at end of turn), detonate charges (false claim at end of turn), outflank (secret passage and false claim + Desper leap + McCabe mobility can get you to the edges), spread them out (2x hucksters and Desper), and catch and release (secret passage onto a henchmen/leader w/o ruthless at end of turn. If you don't get initiative to run away, you are manipulative on the Huckster so hard to kill) are what I look for. Note that you can remove any one (per use) of your scheme markers for false claim, it does not have to be one of the scheme markers dropped from false claim. I'll often have a few scheme markers placed in my backfield on turn one so I can remove them later once Hucksters false claim some scheme markers in key positions in later turns.

Not sure what he would struggle into... Maybe super fast killy crews like Nikima? Any crew that can't just be easily ignored, as I play a very avoid style with McCabe.

Would love to hear other opinions too!

[Da Git]

I would have thought Rough Riders with Trained Ninja for Leylines would be solid. Stealth, Unimpeded and 17" (+50mm base) means they should be able to get from 1 corner marker to another corner by themselves (terrain permitting) Otherwise they still have their push if they get tied up and need to go for or get away from the centre.

[j3diii]

10 hours ago, kalcan said:

For strats, he's my go to in Symbols. Desper and hucksters along with mobility from McCabe makes it very easy to score points. He's not bad in lay lines, but you can't place (secret passage/leap/target of ride with me) the lode stone model so it can be tricky. I like to put it on McCabe since he is so fast, and he can bring a model with rwm to interact with strategy markers, get in place so a fast huckster can secret passage (x2 if needed) to interact with strategy markers, or just do it himself. Stealthed rough riders are also a good choice to put the marker on. McCabe can do turf war but I think Yan Lo or Misaki do it better. If good strats for hucksters are available then I consider McCabe. I like tankier crews and fightier schemes for Break the Line, typically Yan Lo. Desper can be great with don't mind me though.

For schemes, breakthrough (secret passage [x2 if needed] and false claim at end of turn), detonate charges (false claim at end of turn), outflank (secret passage and false claim + Desper leap + McCabe mobility can get you to the edges), spread them out (2x hucksters and Desper), and catch and release (secret passage onto a henchmen/leader w/o ruthless at end of turn. If you don't get initiative to run away, you are manipulative on the Huckster so hard to kill) are what I look for. Note that you can remove any one (per use) of your scheme markers for false claim, it does not have to be one of the scheme markers dropped from false claim. I'll often have a few scheme markers placed in my backfield on turn one so I can remove them later once Hucksters false claim some scheme markers in key positions in later turns.

Not sure what he would struggle into... Maybe super fast killy crews like Nikima? Any crew that can't just be easily ignored, as I play a very avoid style with McCabe.

Would love to hear other opinions too!

Thank you very much for replying! Some great food for thought and the specific answers for S&S is extremely helpful. 

[kalcan]

4 hours ago, Da Git said:

I would have thought Rough Riders with Trained Ninja for Leylines would be solid.

Yeah, I did mention this is my post! I usually take a stealthed rough rider in this strat. If there are enough ranged threats to danger McCabe then I'll put the lodestone on the rough rider.

56 minutes ago, j3diii said:

Thank you very much for replying! Some great food for thought and the specific answers for S&S is extremely helpful. 

No problem! Others may have different opinions, likely better than mine 😛 I've had a lot of success with McCabe when thoughtfully played into S&S pools instead of forcing him into one that I normally wouldn't play him, but that happens a lot when you just want to play a certain crew regardless of pool haha