GG2 Changes to Mccabe

[whitters]

I'm surprised there's not already a topic on this.

I totally understand getting rid of "Make Way" as that enabled him to average more damage in melee than lady J.

I like the change to "careful,it's cursed" as I may actually use this ability now. It is a viable alternative to the net gun as a ranged action into an engagement.

"drag along" on "ride with me" could be very useful (moving scrap, schemes, pyre markers etc)

What surprises me the most is "adventure awaits" as that change makes him arguably just as good if not better than before. A flat bonus of 2 for TNs of ALL Wastrels? In a crew that contains Hucksters? Wow. Still need to play him in the new strat / scheme pool but that looks to me like an equivalent of a couple of extra cards a turn.

The way I would play McCabe is different now but I think this make him more interesting. What does everyone else think?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Yeah, I think this was intended as a rework and not a nerf.

I think it'll make the crew a LOT less card hungry which is going to be super sweet, and now McCabe will probably do more scheme running, freeing up his crew to focus on the enemy? Not sure. Will have to see how powerful the artifact cursing is, it helps that it lets you pass it around easier now.

[belorey]

Yeah, now McCabe must be played carefully he is not anymore a killing machine and you need him mounted to get +2 on TN. So now we have:

You can pass the Relic Upgrades with a 2+!!!

Luna get a relic upgrade with a 6+

Jessie get Soulstones with a 4+ and his  with a 5+

Desper can leap with a 5+

Sidir can do the Blow It to Hell with a 4+

Riders get the dust with a 3+ and Ride with Me with a 5+

Cryptologist use his  with a 7+

Huckster can False Claim with a 4+ and use Secret Passage with a 6+

So most of this thing's are done with low cards only 3 actions need a 6+ or 7+ to be done. 😁

[Vessien]

47 minutes ago, belorey said:

Sidir can do the Blow It to Hell with a 4+ 

Just a quick typo, it would be a 2+ if I am not mistaken.

 

I have not played McCabe, but for what it was said around here and in the podcasts, he seemed a bit too strong and he was played mostly OOK.

So I think the rework is fine, since the power level of McCabe himself went down, but the power of the overall keyword should go up.

[Thatguy]

3 hours ago, whitters said:

I'm surprised there's not already a topic on this.

I totally understand getting rid of "Make Way" as that enabled him to average more damage in melee than lady J...

The way I would play McCabe is different now but I think this make him more interesting. What does everyone else think?

Honestly if he was running over things in melee I was pretty happy. Slow+Stagger from the net gun is brutal. Especially if bad positioning let's him blast on to multiple models. 

Other than wounds, the changes seem like pretty strict improvements to a Master I didn't see as underperforming. I guess there is now more incentive to stay in keyword instead of just bringing good OoK/versatile minions to give fast.

 

[belorey]

1 hour ago, Vessien said:

Just a quick typo, it would be a 2+ if I am not mistaken.

Yes it's a 2+ 

[SEV]

I dont play McCabe, but this rework seems nice. Giving more in keyword synergy is great! 

Also McCabe was underperforming (see MWS stats) or at least was not OP. 

I think they could have use this kind of rework on more low to mid tier masters instead of nerfing heavily the top one.

[Thatguy]

28 minutes ago, SEV said:

Also McCabe was underperforming (see MWS stats) or at least was not OP. 

I'm surprised to hear that. 😲 it's good to know.

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Honestly if he was running over things in melee I was pretty happy. Slow+Stagger from the net gun is brutal. Especially if bad positioning let's him blast on to multiple models. 

Other than wounds, the changes seem like pretty strict improvements to a Master I didn't see as underperforming. I guess there is now more incentive to stay in keyword instead of just bringing good OoK/versatile minions to give fast.

 

For me (with my like 3 games of experience), it was the versatility that was so powerful.

If I was against a Komainu? Melee mode. If I was against an aggressive line of beaters? Net gun it is.

Losing that option to just swap between roles (even in the middle of the game) is definitely a big hit But the crew will be soooooo much less card hungry now, looking forward to trying it more!

[regleant]

Definitely looking forward to getting the new McCabe on the table! He’s not the beast he was before, but now he’s turning his crew up to 11. 

[FrostHunter]

Could anyone share card of McCabe? My app still shows me preerrata card and claims that it downloaded all of cards...

[Maniacal_cackle]

Hmmmm... I thought I hit post, but I guess it didnt' so I'll repost...

33 minutes ago, FrostHunter said:

Could anyone share card of McCabe? My app still shows me preerrata card and claims that it downloaded all of cards...

I've hit my image cap for the forums so can't post images anymore, but you can get them from Wyrd's official dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wicc6rs8kg46bt7/AACUSxdWhyaHQYaD1cGf0nzga?dl=0

[Vessien]

48 minutes ago, FrostHunter said:

Could anyone share card of McCabe? My app still shows me preerrata card and claims that it downloaded all of cards...

You can hit the refresh button in the top right and the next time you close and open the app it should download the card.

Also, you can just uninstall and reinstall the app.

[santaclaws01]

The change was to stop McCabe from just being a singleton model who runs into an enemy crew with whatever 1-2 upgrades would be good for the match up, and proceed to decimate stuff causing 10+ simple duels in the process. His shooting is still very good, but it's shooting, so still has much more the opponent can do against it, and requires mccabe to actually be hitting mod+ damage to have a big impact rather than just hitting and the damage flip being largely irrelevant.

[FrostHunter]

Thanks you all.

 

Hmm hmmm hmmm... i'm little sad that they have taken away trampling, but the changes makes McCabe even greater support master. It also should speed game a little without that wonderful spam of TN.

[Silbuster]

Two of the players here interpret the "Adventure Awaits" differently. They think that "...TN of actions on other friendly wastrels..." concerns only actions that McCabe takes on other wastrel models such as "Ride with me" or "Take this" or ... well, there is nothing else actually. I do not even regard this as a starter since if it were this trivial then there would be little point in adding it to his abilities. However, I have to concede that it is poorly worded and "TN of actions on the cards of other friendly wastrels" would have been better. What do you think?

[Thatguy]

I think it would have said "targeting" if it was meant to be that interpretation. 

[Silbuster]

Hello “Thatguy”; a suitably anonymous moniker, if I may say so. That is exactly what I said to the pair of them but they weren’t having any of it. Any other ideas for convincing the illiterate?

[Thatguy]

The only other tack I could think of is presenting the word choice that would better fit their interpretation.

It would be something like: This model gets +2 to the value of duels targeting friendly Wastrel Models. 

Which would be simpler and cover the situations they think it's meant for.

 

You could also point out that it doesn't say "on the card" so that Friendly Wastrels with stuff like Phantasmal Mask can use the -2 to the target number for acrions like Protective Spirits and "Take This" which have Target Numbers that aren't on their cards.

[Silbuster]

Thanks “Thatguy”. Is it possible that Americans would say “TN on the action “ rather than “TN of the action “?

[Thatguy]

21 minutes ago, Silbuster said:

Thanks “Thatguy”. Is it possible that Americans would say “TN on the action “ rather than “TN of the action “?

I think you'd generally use "of" because it's possessive. The Action's Target Number.
"On" is usually more of a spacial/positional thing.
 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, Silbuster said:

Thanks “Thatguy”. Is it possible that Americans would say “TN on the action “ rather than “TN of the action “?

If someone asked "what's the target number on your ability?", that would make perfect sense to me.

[kalcan]

After finally getting in some games, I can finally give some opinions on the rework. The amount of damage and simple duels that McCabe could do pre-change was just absurd, and I like that his playstyle is defined a bit more with adventure awaits. The biggest change I feel is how adventure awaits affects Hucksters. 6's instead of 8's for secret passage feels soo much better, and 4's for false claim is great. Those are abilities that need to go off when used, and I feel like I don't need to cheat nearly as often now to get them to go off. When I have the scheme pool to choose McCabe, it's usually because I know that 2 Hucksters can score me 4 points on schemes, they are just so good. I definitely spend the stones to give them stealth upgrade if I suspect my opponent will have heavy ranged damage or abilities that will mess with their actions. If the strat necessitates Desper, his leap going off on 5 is very helpful as well. I still feel like Desper is overcosted, worth 7ss rather than 8ss. McCabe's early activations (turn 2-3) usually look more like move up, shoot and apply slow, and move back, rather than charge in like a madman and make your opponent pass 8+ simple duels or take 2 dmg per fail, while also doing 2+dmg on each attack. I still have not used "careful it's cursed", I wish it was a bonus action? (but then I wouldn't be able to pass the relic after... hm...) His AP just seems like it could be used on something better. I can't figure out if using a non-mask 7+ on a cryptologist for card draw (antique timepiece > looted supplies) is worth it, but I know using a 9 without adventure awaits is definitely not worth it. I wish the trigger on antique timepiece did not have the stipulation that you can't use an ability to attach upgrades, as I feel it would be a good ability to use on McCabe turn 1 to not use up one of his AP to dish out a relic. I'm not sure where the cryptologist's place is right now, but I have a feeling it's on the bench. Rough riders are ok... 5's instead of 7's on ride with me is definitely awesome. Any cost 7 mounted minion I just can't help but compare to rooster riders (which is unfair as they are probably one of the best models in the game for their cost), and it makes me wish they had either more defense (5df/4wp is pretty bad for 7stone model), or more dmg (maybe a built in ram for crit?) Ruffians remain some of the worst minions in the game, with the changes to McCabe not helping them at all since they have no abilities with TN. Sadir still does what he did before. Jessie feels weird, idk what she does in a McCabe list honestly, I don't feel like I have the SS to justify her in any list I put together. Hucksters and Desper seem to handle the scheming and marker placement, she feels redundent.

Overall, he seems more like a fast scheming support master which I feel like was the intent from the beginning. At least I always play some in keyword models now in Hucksters, rather than only sometimes before the change, but still probably mostly OKK or versatile. Rest of the keyword still feels kind of bad... but McCabe is definitely fun and capable of taking games. Oh and I still hit black joker on a pass the artifact in two different games despite only needing a 2+ now... lame haha 

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 hours ago, kalcan said:

If the strat necessitates Desper, his leap going off on 5 is very helpful as well. I still feel like Desper is overcosted, worth 7ss rather than 8ss.

I found this such a wild take. I think Desper is sooooooo good. What is it you don't like about him? I like that he can turn around and kill stuff if need be (being a min 3 beater if he wants), can steal soulstones to mess with the opponent, and can scheme like a boss.

In TT you can also give him masked agent or whatever so that he can charge through terrain and teleport his friends through terrain xD

[kalcan]

Yeah perhaps you’re right in that that was too hot a take haha. I think I just relied too heavily and pre errata trained ninja to keep him safe. My regular opponents now just kill him. 5df/5wp 8hp with his only defensive tech being leap aside trigger, maybe I just play him too aggressively. Two fast husksters is usually all I need for scheming, and there are better damage dealers in faction so I guess he just feels redundant.