Azahul Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 If this trigger is declared (forcing an opponent to place a schememarker base to base and in LOS), but a terrain's shadow makes LOS to the marker mpossible, does the trigger still force a marker to be dropped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Paddywhack Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Shadow on it's own does not block LOS. The object creating the Shadow has to be between the model and the target (in the Shadow) to block the LOS. So a 30mm model in the shadow of a building can drop a Scheme marker under itself just fine. Yes, the marker is in the Shadow of the building, but no lines of sight cross the Blocking terrain. Placing the scheme under the model still allows the sight lines to be unblocked per the rules on p28 of the Rules Manual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Paddywhack Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, doubleW said: Yeah... but i cant see what all this has to do with shadow... How does shadow of terrain can take los? P18 Rules Manual: When drawing sight lines from one model to another, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model (even partially), any sight lines that pass through the terrain generating that Shadow are blocked (even if the terrain is being ignored due to its Height, as per the Line of Sight and Size rules on pg. 17). So a Ht0 Scheme marker in the shadow of the a Ht2 Wall (all site lines going through the wall) would not be in LOS to a model on the other side of the wall. All site lines would be blocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 santaclaws01 Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 If the marker can't be placed in LoS to the attacker then it doesn't get placed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 doubleW Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Cant the enemy drop the marker underneath himself? If you have los to attack him then you should have los to the marker aswell... Since he doesnt block los if standing on top of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 santaclaws01 Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, doubleW said: Cant the enemy drop the marker underneath himself? If you have los to attack him then you should have los to the marker aswell... Since he doesnt block los if standing on top of it That's where shadow comes in. Or even just shooting a big model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 touchdown Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Yeah I don't see how an attack would have LOS but you couldn't drop a scheme marker with LOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ShinChan Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 A Bandido (Sz2) shoot at a Sz3 (or more) model that is behind a Sz2 Wall. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Paddywhack Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, ShinChan said: A Bandido (Sz2) shoot at a Sz3 (or more) model that is behind a Sz2 Wall. Ah, yes. I see the situation better now. Then if you don't have LOS to the Scheme marker you couldn't drop it. You may have LOS to the target due to it's Size, but if you can't see where the Scheme marker is going to drop, then no you can't drop it. You can't complete one of the requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 santaclaws01 Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, ShinChan said: A Bandido (Sz2) shoot at a Sz3 (or more) model that is behind a Sz2 Wall. Or to give a different spin, two sz 3 models shooting each other over a sz 2 wall. They can see each other fine, but if one of them is completely in the shadow then any scheme markers in base contact with them would be out of LoS of the other model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 doubleW Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Yeah... but i cant see what all this has to do with shadow... How does shadow of terrain can take los? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 doubleW Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 Oh! I have my first 3 games ever been playing wrong in that regards 😅 Was using shadow just for the cover.... Thx for the clarification 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Maniacal_cackle Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 9 hours ago, Paddywhack said: P18 Rules Manual: When drawing sight lines from one model to another, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model (even partially), any sight lines that pass through the terrain generating that Shadow are blocked (even if the terrain is being ignored due to its Height, as per the Line of Sight and Size rules on pg. 17). So a Ht0 Scheme marker in the shadow of the a Ht2 Wall (all site lines going through the wall) would not be in LOS to a model on the other side of the wall. All site lines would be blocked. Worth noting the passage you cited actually is about model to model. Does that apply for markers as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 santaclaws01 Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Worth noting the passage you cited actually is about model to model. Does that apply for markers as well? Last section of the marker rules Quote When drawing LoS to a Marker, the Marker is treated as a model with Size 0, unless the Marker has the Height Terrain Trait, in which case its Size is equal to its Height. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Azahul Posted April 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 On 4/24/2021 at 8:49 AM, Paddywhack said: P18 Rules Manual: When drawing sight lines from one model to another, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model (even partially), any sight lines that pass through the terrain generating that Shadow are blocked (even if the terrain is being ignored due to its Height, as per the Line of Sight and Size rules on pg. 17). So a Ht0 Scheme marker in the shadow of the a Ht2 Wall (all site lines going through the wall) would not be in LOS to a model on the other side of the wall. All site lines would be blocked. This was the situation in our game, but now I'm wondering if we actually played LOS wrong entirely. If a Size 3 model is behind a Size 2 wall and in its shadow, can a Size 2 model see it? The phrasing "if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model (even partially), any sight lines that pass through the terrain generating that Shadow are blocked" is throwing me. Does "that model" refer to the model in the Shadow only? Conversely by that reading I assume a Size 2 model in the Shadow of Size 2 terrain wouldn't be able to see a Size 3 model on the far side, but would be able to if you back up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 santaclaws01 Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Azahul said: Does "that model" refer to the model in the Shadow only? Yes. 1 hour ago, Azahul said: Conversely by that reading I assume a Size 2 model in the Shadow of Size 2 terrain wouldn't be able to see a Size 3 model on the far side, but would be able to if you back up? Also yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Azahul Posted April 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 Nice, thanks! Shadow rules have been doing my head in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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If this trigger is declared (forcing an opponent to place a schememarker base to base and in LOS), but a terrain's shadow makes LOS to the marker mpossible, does the trigger still force a marker to be dropped?
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