Youko Hamasaki is finally good

[ShinChan]

6 hours ago, mattc said:

Nah, I'm just a sucker for a good pop culture reference. But the chess connection made sense with her personality and it is a very, very good show.

Are you Sir the person I have to thank for Jack Burton and Bob Ross?

If that's you, thank you from the deepest of my heart! I love all and each one of the pop references, specially the Bayou ones. There's a reaso n why Wong is my favorite master

Sorry all for the offtopic! Youko looks great, and between her an Cyberpunk Mei I'll probably deep into TT. 

Both Kunoichis and Kabuki Warriors look so much better with her now. What about Lust? The change to distracted favours her, but she doesn't feel that good. What about Tannen? 

[Jinn]

3 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Are you Sir the person I have to thank for Jack Burton and Bob Ross?

If that's you, thank you from the deepest of my heart! I love all and each one of the pop references, specially the Bayou ones. There's a reaso n why Wong is my favorite master

Sorry all for the offtopic! Youko looks great, and between her an Cyberpunk Mei I'll probably deep into TT. 

Both Kunoichis and Kabuki Warriors look so much better with her now. What about Lust? The change to distracted favours her, but she doesn't feel that good. What about Tannen? 

I'm looking forward to using Lust in Youko Hamasaki games. Now that Backroom Dealings is choose a card to discard and then they draw one she has a lot more synergy with the crew.

[belorey]

Youko looks amazing, between her and Jacob Lynch i'm seriously thinking of "start collecting" 10 Thunders (i already own McCabe for his past in Guild).

[Assdex]

Now we got combo with hina like zora. Easy 8 dmg loking good.

I played a 2 game with new youko and she is solid right now.

And only right now find wombo combo with bill

[regleant]

18 hours ago, Vessien said:

I was happy when first read this, but then I went wondering if it wasn't too good. Would this GG2 adjustment make it work as stated earlier by @regleant?

 

 

Or what is this clarification for? Are there skills that mention "controlled"?

Oh, I'm just as confused as you are on this one.  Did you watch the associated video and read the comments? This situation of Obeying an enemy model to drop a scheme marker was specifically called out (I asked the question in the comments)... and it doesn't match with the above wording.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, regleant said:

Oh, I'm just as confused as you are on this one.  Did you watch the associated video and read the comments? This situation of Obeying an enemy model to drop a scheme marker was specifically called out (I asked the question in the comments)... and it doesn't match with the above wording.

Touchdown explained it, but you may have missed it with so many comments.

Friendly and enemy controlled is only used in the wording of schemes and strategies (so you can't do things like obey them to pick up a Symbol of Authority).

As per the core rules, if you obey a model to drop a scheme marker, they drop one of your markers still

[Adran]

14 minutes ago, regleant said:

Oh, I'm just as confused as you are on this one.  Did you watch the associated video and read the comments? This situation of Obeying an enemy model to drop a scheme marker was specifically called out (I asked the question in the comments)... and it doesn't match with the above wording.

Friendly controlled and enemy controlled are not the same as friendly and enemy. They are concepts that were introduced in the Gaining grounds documents to stop "obey" effects  breaking the game. If soemthing doesn't refer to friendly controlled or enemy controlled, you don't need to use those rules

Page 26 says

Regardless of control, the model does not change which models it considers friendly and which it considers an enemy.

8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Touchdown explained it, but you may have missed it with so many comments.

Friendly and enemy controlled is only used in the wording of schemes and strategies (so you can't do things like obey them to pick up a Symbol of Authority).

As per the core rules, if you obey a model to drop a scheme marker, they drop one of your markers still

This is in the Markers section (page 28 electronic)

When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Apologies, I'm still confused, what is the TLDR synopsis? If she uses We Own You to grab an enemy model, and has it take swing at one of it's team mates, does it suffer the distracted?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Fetid Strumpet said:

Apologies, I'm still confused, what is the TLDR synopsis? If she uses We Own You to grab an enemy model, and has it take swing at one of it's team mates, does it suffer the distracted?

No distracted penalty, distracted is enemy only

Enemy controlled is a completely different thing from enemy and not relevant for Distracted.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Sorry, to spell it out more.

Your Youko obeys my Manos to hit my Crooligan.

Manos is friendly to the Crooligan, so does not suffer from his distracted condition.

If your Youko obeyed my Manos to attack your Bill Algren for some weird reason...

Manos is enemy to Bill, distracted applies.

[regleant]

12 hours ago, Adran said:

Friendly controlled and enemy controlled are not the same as friendly and enemy. They are concepts that were introduced in the Gaining grounds documents to stop "obey" effects  breaking the game. If soemthing doesn't refer to friendly controlled or enemy controlled, you don't need to use those rules

Page 26 says

Regardless of control, the model does not change which models it considers friendly and which it considers an enemy.

This is in the Markers section (page 28 electronic)

When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it.

Your quote from Page 28 is exactly why I think it doesn't work like you say it does.

• Markers section (page 28 electronic): When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it.
• Obey:  Target performs any non-bonus action..., chosen and controlled by this model.

So if Obey is controlled by "this model", and when you drop a marker it is friendly to the Crew controlling it, how does this not work?

[solkan]

13 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

As per the core rules, if you obey a model to drop a scheme marker, they drop one of your markers still

That hasn't been the case since M2E.

The M2E rule:

Quote

This Scheme Marker is always considered friendly to the crew of the model that placed it, regardless of who controlled the Interact Action.

The M3E rules:

Quote

When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it.

In other words:

- In M2E:  If Model A uses Obey to make Model B Interact to drop a scheme marker, this produces a scheme marker for Model B's crew.

- In M3E:  If Model A uses Obey to make Model B Interact to drop a scheme marker, this produces a scheme marker for whoever is controlling Model A.  (Obey -> Interact temporarily gives control over Model B.)

--

Gaining Grounds created the additional language concerning "friendly controlled" and "enemy controlled" because the developers chose to create special cases to deal with how people were using Obey and Interact with the strategies.  The core rules mechanics for Interact and generating scheme markers hasn't been changed.

 

[regleant]

NVM, taking it to the Rules forum

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, regleant said:

And I agree with this answer, except for the fact that Wyrd answered it the opposite way in their training videos on YouTube. I even asked this question in the comments:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUV0-8f9DIM&t=2s when you drop a Scheme marker, it is friendly to your opponent, not friendly to you. 

The video you linked isn't an official Wyrd video (it even says so in the text on the bottom), so I think that's where the problem is. They're probably just wrong.

[regleant]

18 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The video you linked isn't an official Wyrd video (it even says so in the text on the bottom), so I think that's where the problem is. They're probably just wrong.

Also means Adran and [redacted because I can't read] are wrong?

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, regleant said:

Also means Adran and Maniacal Cackle are wrong?

Quite possibly, I'm wrong all the time, but I agree with Solkan's interpretation here so maybe I miscommunicated at some stage:

Quote

If Model A uses Obey to make Model B Interact to drop a scheme marker, this produces a scheme marker for whoever is controlling Model A.  (Obey -> Interact temporarily gives control over Model B.)

 

[regleant]

12 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Quite possibly, I'm wrong all the time, but I agree with Solkan's interpretation here so maybe I miscommunicated at some stage:

 

I apologize, I can't read. Glad we're all getting aligned, though. Truly, this is the one thing I hate most about this game - rules by consensus as opposed to having the staff or a designee monitor the Rules forums to give the final verdict. When Wyrd sponsors training videos for YouTube that have errors in them, it's even worse.  

[Adran]

On 3/15/2021 at 3:28 AM, MisterWerks said:

Hey Players,

I've been developing a YouTube channel called Malifaux University for a while now.  The aim is to help new players get into the game without being overwhelmed by the depth and richness of the game.  You'll notice that the videos simplify or strip down the rules a bit to help the new player focus.  As I continue to develop them, I'll continue to expand and elaborate until the players are ready for the full breadth of the game.  Here's the Orientation video if you're interested in taking a look.  Kind feedback is always welcome.

 

Here is the thread about making the videos. It's all fan and not official. 

 

4 hours ago, regleant said:

Also means Adran and [redacted because I can't read] are wrong?

I don't think I am here, I am giving the same answer as Solkan, and MC gave.  ( although I think I just quoted rules rather than say what I thought)

4 hours ago, regleant said:

I apologize, I can't read. Glad we're all getting aligned, though. Truly, this is the one thing I hate most about this game - rules by consensus as opposed to having the staff or a designee monitor the Rules forums to give the final verdict. When Wyrd sponsors training videos for YouTube that have errors in them, it's even worse.  

I would say most issues are actually clear in the rules, but people don't look. So I don't think that the rules here are unclear, but if you only read page 26 and remember M2e you may get it wrong, but p28 is clear what happens. 

The marker belongs to the crew controlling the action, which might not be the same crew as the model taking the action. 

[Cats Laughing]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:01 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

If your Youko obeyed my Manos to attack your Bill Algren for some weird reason...

Manos is enemy to Bill, distracted applies.

I suppose if I took a model with a Df trigger (like Parry on Sidir) I could have Youko obey your Manos to attack them while distracted and likely to miss and therefore let me get off the Df trigger.  It's probably not worthwhile, but...

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Cats Laughing said:

I suppose if I took a model with a Df trigger (like Parry on Sidir) I could have Youko obey your Manos to attack them while distracted and likely to miss and therefore let me get off the Df trigger.  It's probably not worthwhile, but...

True!

Probably the more common scenario will be obeying your own model to attack an enemy - then distracted applies xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

For instance, you can obey Fuhatsu to shoot and he gets positive to cancel the distracted, but I think this is bad xD

[Jinn]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

For instance, you can obey Fuhatsu to shoot and he gets positive to cancel the distracted, but I think this is bad xD

You can only do non-Charge general actions andactions, so not quite as versatile as an obey.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Jinn said:

You can only do non-Charge general actions andactions, so not quite as versatile as an obey.

Whoops, good point!

[touchdown]

If you wanted to get really silly you could obey Fuhatsu to melee attack a friendly so he can get the trigger to shoot.

Altogether this would mean putting 2 distracted on Fuhatsu, hitting another of you own models, and then probably spending a stone, all to make 1 attack that can't declare triggers, doesn't get his pos flip, and can't benefit from focus.

 

[Vessien]

4 minutes ago, touchdown said:

If you wanted to get really silly you could obey Fuhatsu to melee attack a friendly so he can get the trigger to shoot.

Altogether this would mean putting 2 distracted on Fuhatsu, hitting another of you own models, and then probably spending a stone, all to make 1 attack that can't declare triggers, doesn't get his pos flip, and can't benefit from focus.

 

Sounds like a solid plan xD