Ressers in GG2!

[Math Mathonwy]

1 hour ago, touchdown said:

you can only be subject to 1 terrifying duel per attack. If the Ashigaru take the hit from a non-terrifying model, the attacker would have to pass the duel, but if the first model also had terrifying the attacker passed, it wouldn't happen.

Isn't that completely at odds with the example provided in the FAQ? "For example, if a model with Take the Hit changes the target of an Action to itself, it would not benefit from any of the initial target’s Abilities such as Manipulative that require the Action to target “this model”, nor could it benefit from more of its own abilities that resolve when it is targeted (such as Terrifying)." (bolding mine)

Or am I misreading it?

[ShinChan]

7 hours ago, Modernpenguin said:

they still have a better leap than wandering river monks, manos and lady J. the gupps in comparison matters little. the midnight stalker has the same leap as the gupps, the first mate as well. i know it isn't the same, but still.. as a monk player, i cry with my 5 health paper monks who needs a 5m to leap. 

First of all, those monks have chi, so the stat is higher than necropunks, have deadly pursuit and movement 6, so they're way better than necropunks. Without the leap, literally move 1" less than a necropunk using the leap (16" vs 16" base size). They also can get the suit if they're 3" away from Shenlong.

As an overall of the abilities, the monks bring more utility than just a leap 

Following your other comparison (which don't make sense at all): LJ can stone (and sudden strike), Manos can stone (and sudden strike) and has Siphon Power, Midnight stalker has 3 actions and showboating to get a card in exchange of cheating for the leap...

[touchdown]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Isn't that completely at odds with the example provided in the FAQ? "For example, if a model with Take the Hit changes the target of an Action to itself, it would not benefit from any of the initial target’s Abilities such as Manipulative that require the Action to target “this model”, nor could it benefit from more of its own abilities that resolve when it is targeted (such as Terrifying)." (bolding mine)

Or am I misreading it?

I read "more" in the context of "some effects may change the target of the Action, in which case that new model is not targeted and as such those effects aren’t generated a second time", to mean each ability can happen once.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, unti said:

Thanks for your answer, but I don't understand how it would resolve...

So what happens now when I use take the hit with an ashigaru with gst (terrifying)? Is the attacker flipping a terrifying duel? 

You only do the effects for the original target.

If Ashigaru has GST, the terrifying does not apply when you Take The Hit.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

 

Following your other comparison (which don't make sense at all): LJ can stone (and sudden strike), Manos can stone (and sudden strike) and has Siphon Power, Midnight stalker has 3 actions and showboating to get a card in exchange of cheating for the leap...

To be fair, no cross-faction comparison makes sense 😜

[ShinChan]

39 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

To be fair, no cross-faction comparison makes sense 😜

I think it is, but you need to see the models in their context, and not in an empty void.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, ShinChan said:

I think it is, but you need to see the models in their context, and not in an empty void.

Well, the context of necropunks (for Ressers) remains:

• They can be taken with lots of card draw.
• They're part of a super-durable crew.
• They can be given fast, so have options even when they don't leap.
• Are durable enough that it still takes a serious commitment to kill them/stop their running.
• The opponent doesn't know if you have a mask in hand, so have to consider that the necropunk may leap away (even if you don't have the card in hand, leap has an impact by existing).
• Etc.

Don't get me wrong, I moaned for months about Archie's lack of suit on a leap, and I was initially quite shocked at the necropunk change, but... I'd like to see how it goes, maybe people will make it work!

[Modernpenguin]

2 hours ago, ShinChan said:

First of all, those monks have chi, so the stat is higher than necropunks, have deadly pursuit and movement 6, so they're way better than necropunks. Without the leap, literally move 1" less than a necropunk using the leap (16" vs 16" base size). They also can get the suit if they're 3" away from Shenlong.

As an overall of the abilities, the monks bring more utility than just a leap 

Following your other comparison (which don't make sense at all): LJ can stone (and sudden strike), Manos can stone (and sudden strike) and has Siphon Power, Midnight stalker has 3 actions and showboating to get a card in exchange of cheating for the leap...

yeah they might have 2-3 chi. but they lose chi to use shen longs aura, they need chi to not die to one attack from a gun or likewise, and can use chi for the stat if needed. so in an IDEAL situation, i spend 2 chi (my only defense against 1 shots), while being close to shenlong, who is often in the thick of combat? 

maybe I'm just facing opponents who try to kill my scheme runners, and I value more hp/ armor than +1 mv? 

as for manos and lady J, yes they can stone, but if you want to sudden strike you need one of the suits (manos can do both ofc, but his attack is not very impressive). Do you want to stone for leaps every turn? and showboating doesn't just give you free masks. if you make that small card draw count as a mask, what do you make of VS card draw?

[Math Mathonwy]

11 hours ago, touchdown said:

I read "more" in the context of "some effects may change the target of the Action, in which case that new model is not targeted and as such those effects aren’t generated a second time", to mean each ability can happen once.

Ah! I can actually see both readings. I took the "more" to mean that no other targeting Abilities trigger but now I can actually see both readings for the whole FAQ entry. So either they are saying that no duplicate effects trigger or that no targeting effects of the new target trigger when the target changes. We need and FAQ of the FAQ...  

[unti]

20 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

We need and FAQ of the FAQ...  

Haha, at least I'm not the only one getting a little bit confused about that.

 

[Adran]

17 hours ago, touchdown said:

you can only be subject to 1 terrifying duel per attack. If the Ashigaru take the hit from a non-terrifying model, the attacker would have to pass the duel, but if the first model also had terrifying the attacker passed, it wouldn't happen.

I read the answer the other way. When you Target a model it sets off all the "when you target a model" abilities, and shifting the target to someone else doesn't then set off a fresh round. So the attackers are basically subject to things on the original target, not on the model that chose to be the target.  

On 4/23/2021 at 9:45 PM, ShinChan said:

Necropunks got hit too hard. They only purpose was to leap to score points, and that leap got nerfed from a 63% changes of flipping the right card from deck to 20%.

If they were too tanky for their cost (usually due to access to GST), that could have been addressed instead of touching the leap. They now have a worse leap than a Gupps.

 

I used to run leap "alot" in the previous 2 editions, and several of those were leaps that required the suit, and I found they were still worth their points even though you may not be able to leap every turn. It does require more card planning and saving, and knowing which leaps are worth cheating, and when you are better to just accept the fail and save the cheat card for a more important leap next turn. 

Other models that want will potentially take a hit as you need those for leaps more, and so you might need to either adapt the list build to need fewer or just accept more failures of abilities.

But over all when I look for a scheme runner I want it to be a mixture of "highly mobile", "able to interact even if it starts the turn engaged" or "able to drop more than 1 marker a turn".  Leap fits all three of those, so I find any model with leap a serious contender as a scheme runner, even if it doesn't have the suit.

(And I can say Guild would love necropunks in their new errata state and you would see them in so many lists there)

[Math Mathonwy]

So has anyone managed to put VS onto the table after the nerfs? How was it?

[Tris]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:14 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to talk to my TOs and see about getting this adopted as the standard, since it has been left in the game and is RAW. But I'm a bit biased since I play bete 😜

Sorry to have to ask, but what is this Bete thing you guys are referring to?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Tris said:

Sorry to have to ask, but what is this Bete thing you guys are referring to?

Bete's bonus action to unbury and charge...

Technically she can use it when not buried, so she can just get a free charge by consuming a corpse anywhere on the field.

[Tris]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Bete's bonus action to unbury and charge...

Technically she can use it when not buried, so she can just get a free charge by consuming a corpse anywhere on the field.

Ah I see, very interesting, and now I get why you guys expected an errata on that.

Thank you for the fast reply.

I had a vague thought about that you have to be able to resolve the whole action though?

[Fetid Strumpet]

That was my interpretation as well, but they are separate sentences. They don't seem to to be dependent on one another, and I can't find anything that says if you can't do everything the action fails. You obviously don't get the teleport to a corpse portion, since you aren't unburying, but I can't find anything that prevents the second sentence from happening. Tried her that way and I think she's pretty good if that remains the case. Doesn't feel broken for the cost, since while it isn't exactly analogous to needing a high mask to get a corpse, it isn't a totally trivial thing either, especially in a crew that want's to potentially eat them for other shennanigans. Reva I think gets the most direct ability to use her, but then she's paying 9 for her, and there are several models in the 9ss range across the factions I'd rate better than Bete.

I'm kinda surprised the FAQ didn't deal with it, but its always possible they either missed the questions, or decided that it wasn't going to destroy the game to just let that interpretation stand for the moment and see what happens. If she starts destroying the fun of everyone for that cost they can always step in later, if she doesn't, then they didn't have to do anything and she's suddenly better.

[Maniacal_cackle]

How are people finding the new strats and schemes?

I think we're well positioned for Bait and Switch (or even just snag an easy end of game point off of it), but I've not figured out Break the Line yet. I'd like to try Reva next.

[Faceface]

14 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

How are people finding the new strats and schemes?

I think we're well positioned for Bait and Switch (or even just snag an easy end of game point off of it), but I've not figured out Break the Line yet. I'd like to try Reva next.

Just played Break The Line with Reva, lost 3 v 4 against Asami - @Insomniakwulfcame in at the end with some interesting feedback. Although Reva hit like a train and did some work, I kept her too far back. If you get her sat on the centre line, she can threatened 2/3 Strat markers.

I tend to take quite an elite list with Reva, and didn't have the models to where is felt okay to spend their turns moving the Pyre markers. Since Asami shut down my Grave Golem (Jorogumo with their heal-deny and positive dmg flips), I wish I'd taken either Lampad or Dead rider for the Interact, free move, interact combo. 

Bone pile did absolutely work tho. Against a non corpse marker denial crew (shakes fist at Oni), they would be amazing. Maybe take two, then ealking/chucking corpse candles or zombies where you need them, then popping out Bone Piles to move a marker. 

[Faceface]

Someone mentioned it earlier, interested to hear if people have put Schtook back on the table much. Holding off having drop money on two boxes of students, would like to see the lists emerging. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 hours ago, Faceface said:

Just played Break The Line with Reva, lost 3 v 4 against Asami - @Insomniakwulfcame in at the end with some interesting feedback. Although Reva hit like a train and did some work, I kept her too far back. If you get her sat on the centre line, she can threatened 2/3 Strat markers.

I tend to take quite an elite list with Reva, and didn't have the models to where is felt okay to spend their turns moving the Pyre markers. Since Asami shut down my Grave Golem (Jorogumo with their heal-deny and positive dmg flips), I wish I'd taken either Lampad or Dead rider for the Interact, free move, interact combo. 

Bone pile did absolutely work tho. Against a non corpse marker denial crew (shakes fist at Oni), they would be amazing. Maybe take two, then ealking/chucking corpse candles or zombies where you need them, then popping out Bone Piles to move a marker. 

Yeah, i think the big problem with grave golem in general is that there is a LOT of stuff in the game that just destroys it with incidental tech. If you can rely on its demise in Reva crew, it is pretty great IMO.

Bone Piles I find that corpse candles being able to walk, grave golem hurling corpses, and restless spirit running around with Dead Rider for those extra hard to reach places really does some work. You have to be careful though because restless spirit doesn't leave behind a corpse on death, its main disadvantage when compared to gravedigger.

[Faceface]

I reckon there's some scope to combine Mortimer with Reva on Break The Line: corpses and chatty, with some movement tricks. Shame his corpse is that teeny bit harder to get. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Faceface said:

I reckon there's some scope to combine Mortimer with Reva on Break The Line: corpses and chatty, with some movement tricks. Shame his corpse is that teeny bit harder to get. 

Yeah, it's weird the henchman has a worse stat than the minion version of the model xD

Although you can get a mindless zombie out of it, not sure how much that is worth.

I would worry that Chatty isn't disruptive enough, but some people swear by it, so worth testing!

[Fetid Strumpet]

Philip is probably better than Mortimer if you are trying to use aura bubbles to disrupt the interacts. Of course that then just changes the target priority of the other side.
 

Mortimer gets you corpses, and Chatty can be mildly annoying, but it’s not super disruptive.

Philip IS super disruptive, but he doesn’t get you corpses, costs an extra stone outside Molly, and will be targeted heavily from the outset if he has any capacity to actually be disruptive.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Played against a Sybelle that was pretty incredible. I seriously rate the model now.

Dead Rider can reap stuff into her, nurse can daze trigger people into Sybelle, Seamus can daze or terrorize, etc...

There's just so many ways to take actions that were already good and change them into actions that also give distracted.

[Tris]

On 6/13/2021 at 9:27 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Played against a Sybelle that was pretty incredible. I seriously rate the model now.

Dead Rider can reap stuff into her, nurse can daze trigger people into Sybelle, Seamus can daze or terrorize, etc...

There's just so many ways to take actions that were already good and change them into actions that also give distracted.

She can now start and try to tarpit a lot of different models which she wasn't able to do before - even with less actual health.

I liked her very much in the game I had her so far after the errrata and will run her more often in the future.