Ressers in GG2!

[Maniacal_cackle]

41 minutes ago, sigasana44 said:

dead rider took quite a big hit, i guess it's to limit people taking it in 90% of the list? from 2/3/4 damage track to just 2 for the ultimate? it's a bit too much tbh. if it's 3 damage i can understand that (as it is the middle-ground) or they can just say it like goryo, damage track with a neg flip.
 

Funnily enough, for my Dead Rider play, this barely affects me. For me, Dead Rider is all about the reap and the triple crow trigger on his Revel. Sure, it is one less damage now, but other than that it is still great (with the option of anti-demise tech!)

42 minutes ago, sigasana44 said:

Ikiryo having the summoned card means she's slow (tho she can just shrug it off) and kirai suffers a damage everytime she activates. it's an annoying nerf but thankfully not a big one.

Oooo, I forgot she can Shrug Off the Slow! That means I would still play Molly & Kirai if... You could summon her xD I'll investigate Kirai & Molly.

43 minutes ago, sigasana44 said:

and i keep hearing that yan lo and prof schtook become useless now... feels bad because i just bought both of them during easter sale

I think people may be overreacting. Usually these types of nerfs don't end up breaking the crew entirely. They just go from "best at everything" to "good at some things."

Especially Yan Lo, the biggest hit is to the stupid combos that most people don't even use in casual play.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Case in point - I was freaking out about the Dreamer nerf (since I used to play him in GG0).

Then when i stopped and thought about how it changed how I played the crew, I realised that barely anything actually changed.

[Shlowmoe]

Best piece of advice is to not listen to others knee jerk reactions and try it out yourself.  People get really emotional about playing with plastic dolls and as @Maniacal_cackle stated when a master goes from best at everything to good at some stuff (where every master/model should be) they immediately start saying the models are now "useless"

[Fetid Strumpet]

Added to Resser's good auras, Sybelle's new Bump in the Night aura also now kinda protects against having an enemy throw one of their models up into melee with a friendly movement effect. If you throw a model into melee with a Redchapel model inside the aura using something like Lashing Tendrils, or Toss, or With Me, to get around disguised, or avoid getting tied up with Sybelle's 2" melee ranged, or just get more attacks, you also get smacked on the nose with the distracted.

Doesn't protect Big Bird though... think if he's there he's gonna draw even more fire, which is probably a good thing.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Added to Resser's good auras, Sybelle's new Bump in the Night aura also now kinda protects against having an enemy throw one of their models up into melee with a friendly movement effect. If you throw a model into melee with a Redchapel model inside the aura using something like Lashing Tendrils, or Toss, or With Me, to get around disguised, or avoid getting tied up with Sybelle's 2" melee ranged, or just get more attacks, you also get smacked on the nose with the distracted.

Doesn't protect Big Bird though... think if he's there he's gonna draw even more fire, which is probably a good thing.

Wil also be a heck of a tarpit. I'm trying this out tonight

My Doxies aren't painted, so going triple Belle + Sybelle (not that Sybelle is painted >.>). My Emissary also isn't painted, but you know... Baby steps. Plus I might get a Seamus Avatar soon! 

[Math Mathonwy]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Especially Yan Lo, the biggest hit is to the stupid combos that most people don't even use in casual play.

To be fair, I believe that Yan Lo did Rebuild Corpus even in non-combo crews two or three times per game on average and before it netted you two cards each time while now it cost you a 12+. That's a seriously hefty change. Also, Ash Ascendant got way way worse and Toshiro + Sun getting major nerfs - Yan Lo's power level went down by a lot, even in non-combo crews.

(not saying that he is useless now, mind)

Von Schtook took such an enormous nerf that if he was even remotely sane power level-wise before he really looks quite mediocre now.

[Warharan]

I would have hoped for a little more for Reva myself.
The Lampad change makes me want to try one but it still seems a lot (8) for what they do.

We'll see. (hopefully sooner rather than later)

 

[doubleW]

Yeah... love the Lampad models
havent bought the box because it seems as no one has used them before

[MajorUndead]

8 hours ago, Mikes said:

Ah right. I hadn't checked the new schemes and stRats yet. Summoned models being unable tone interact is going to hamper me a bit. I really leaned on the Forgotten Marshall.

I'm not sure I get this one.
Are you refering to the change :

"On the turn they are Summoned, Summoned models cannot take the Interact Action and are ignored for friendly Schemes and Strategies."

If so it's not really new, in GG1 there was already something preventing summoned models to interact on the turn they were summoned : "Summoned models cannot take the Interact Action during the Turn they were Summoned."

If not then it looks like I missed something

[Jinn]

10 minutes ago, MajorUndead said:

I'm not sure I get this one.
Are you refering to the change :

"On the turn they are Summoned, Summoned models cannot take the Interact Action and are ignored for friendly Schemes and Strategies."

If so it's not really new, in GG1 there was already something preventing summoned models to interact on the turn they were summoned : "Summoned models cannot take the Interact Action during the Turn they were Summoned."

If not then it looks like I missed something

Summoned models can't interact with strategy markers at all in GG2, even after their first turn.

[MajorUndead]

14 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Summoned models can't interact with strategy markers at all in GG2, even after their first turn.

Oh I see, then I definitely missed something.
In which document is that written?

I just saw the link to the errata & faq and I don't think I saw those here, so I guess I missed a link

EDIT : nevermind, It didn't occur to me to click on the big "gaining grounds season 2" image. Silly me

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just back from the club! Some first impressions:

Sybelle - still bad.  It goes all in on the 'lure people in' mechanic (which just negates disguise). Also the beaters you want to give distracted to are not beaters you want to assist with getting closer to your crew with lure. You also need to commit so many stones to the engine that it just seems silly. Maybe if the aura could work on her she could be a standalone model that synergised with the crew when needed, but as is I don't like her.

EDIT: And this coming from the guy who thinks 3 Belles are worth 15 stones. It is not like I was setting the bar very high.

Kirai (my opponent) - jesus, the summon changes hit Kirai hard. She uses her summons to run strategies, and not being able to do that anymore is just brutal. Not sure how much competitive play she'll see. The Ikiryo change barely matters - she can just remove the slow (though the discard does hurt). I killed his Jaakuna and his Dead Rider early on, and suddenly he did not have a lot of options for the strategy.

New strategy (break the lines) - Molly is going to be so amazing at this. It is VERY ap intensive, and Molly is very AP efficient, so it's going to be great. Seamus is not very good here - spending a master AP to toss it two is not great. Reva is probably good here, but requires testing.

New scheme (death's bed) - it is nice that you can use corpses, but geting an enemy model to die near a scheme marker is hard enough. Getting them to die near a scheme AND another marker is just brutal. Maybe good for Molly crews, or von schtook?

Dead Rider - wait, did they make any changes to it? 😜

[Fetid Strumpet]

Not sure what you mean if the aura could work on her...it does. If an enemy model in her 6” aura ends a move engaged by a friendly Redchapel model when it is not the enemy model’s turn they get distracted. It doesn’t say other friendly Redchapel model, just any Redchapel model, which she is one. Which means that if you use beckoning call and pull something in to her melee range they automatically get distracted, and maybe 2 distracted if you get the trigger. I’m not singing her absolute praises, but I think, based on your post you might have gotten the rule wrong.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Not sure what you mean if the aura could work on her...it does. If an enemy model in her 6” aura ends a move engaged by a friendly Redchapel model when it is not the enemy model’s turn they get distracted. It doesn’t say other friendly Redchapel model, just any Redchapel model, which she is one. Which means that if you use beckoning call and pull something in to her melee range they automatically get distracted, and maybe 2 distracted if you get the trigger. I’m not singing her absolute praises, but I think, based on your post you might have gotten the rule wrong.

I totally did xD I could have sworn there was an 'other' in there.

Okay, I'll give her another go at some point

[Math Mathonwy]

24 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Kirai (my opponent) - jesus, the summon changes hit Kirai hard. She uses her summons to run strategies, and not being able to do that anymore is just brutal. Not sure how much competitive play she'll see. The Ikiryo change barely matters - she can just remove the slow (though the discard does hurt). I killed his Jaakuna and his Dead Rider early on, and suddenly he did not have a lot of options for the strategy.

Why can't Kirai hire model to do Strats and Summon the fighty models (and Schemers)? I mean, isn't that what all Summoners need to do now?

And heck, non-Summoners also need to hire models to do Strats  

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

Von Schtook is not dead, he just needs to played differently now. His keyword had great card draw, survivability, hitting power, scheming efficiency and overall speed. Now they were nerfed in the last two departments. They're still good, but not stellar good. Players just need to rethink the way they play the crew, as they no longer can slingshot fast Valedictorian to enemy DZ followed by teleporting undergrad(s).

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Why can't Kirai hire model to do Strats and Summon the fighty models (and Schemers)? I mean, isn't that what all Summoners need to do now?

And heck, non-Summoners also need to hire models to do Strats  

Oh, she can.

But if you compare like Dreamer (with Bandy, Widow Weaver, etc), it is a much bigger change for Kirai. When I played Dreamer, I already played him in the style of summoning tarpits and strategy running with hires.

For Kirai, it definitely closes some doors (on break the line and symbols). Sure she can hire stuff, but she's not as well set up to protect say a Dead Rider or an Archie as Molly is for example.

Which is fine if Kirai isn't a top tier master (though who knows, maybe she still is). But I definitely noticed the changes for her table a lot more than I think the Dreamer player did? Could have been relative skill of the players as well, but even taking that into account it seemed big for Kirai.

[MajorUndead]

I'm trying to see how the changes to Von Schtook's trigger Positive Results will impact the crew.

Removing the "heal 1" part shouldn't impact much, especially since there's not much hard to kill in the crew.

But changing the fast from "if the model has an upgrade" to "remove scheme marker within 2'" is interesting.

On the negative side, there's a cost to pay.
If you want to give fast turn 1, you'll need to spend an action (preferably from a model without good options turn 1) to generate a sheme marker.
Though you could use an undergraduate Study/Ana's grade assignment, if you also take a gravedigger, or other way to generate corpse markers.

On the plus side, you can potentially give fast to anyone, not just the models hired with an upgrade or the summoned models.

Also Von Schtook's Recruitment drive (even if nerfed), and Students of Steel's sabotage would help generate the scheme markers in later turns.

And it's definitly worth mentioning that it doesn't have to be a friendly scheme marker, so it might give more opportunity to use it/might help remove ennemy schemes markers you couldn't remove normally.

I'm sure I'm missing other ways this change could impact play, but I'm definitly curious to play this one out to find out

[Math Mathonwy]

4 minutes ago, MajorUndead said:

I'm trying to see how the changes to Von Schtook's trigger Positive Results will impact the crew.

Removing the "heal 1" part shouldn't impact much, especially since there's not much hard to kill in the crew.

But changing the fast from "if the model has an upgrade" to "remove scheme marker within 2'" is interesting.

On the negative side, there's a cost to pay.
If you want to give fast turn 1, you'll need to spend an action (preferably from a model without good options turn 1) to generate a sheme marker.
Though you could use an undergraduate Study/Ana's grade assignment, if you also take a gravedigger, or other way to generate corpse markers.

On the plus side, you can potentially give fast to anyone, not just the models hired with an upgrade or the summoned models.

Also Von Schtook's Recruitment drive (even if nerfed), and Students of Steel's sabotage would help generate the scheme markers in later turns.

And it's definitly worth mentioning that it doesn't have to be a friendly scheme marker, so it might give more opportunity to use it/might help remove ennemy schemes markers you couldn't remove normally.

I'm sure I'm missing other ways this change could impact play, but I'm definitly curious to play this one out to find out

I feel that changing it to Minion only is the biggest change. VS does have some good Minions, but still.

[MajorUndead]

1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I feel that changing it to Minion only is the biggest change. VS does have some good Minions, but still.

True, I failed to mention that.
Valedictorian was a prime target for the fast.
I'm curious now, would people still take an upgrade for her as often?

[Graf]

I thinks the scheme marker requirement is better design. The "must have an upgrade" requirement always felt wonky.

But the minion requirement hurts Vale a lot. She required it to 1-turn kill anything worthwhile. My instinct says you can't afford to bloat her point cost anymore.

Sadly, even versatile/ook the best choices for good beaters aren't minions. Sloth became much less optional with that, might even become a staple for Transmortis now. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Sloth was always pretty good with Seamus too, but with Sybelle changes, if you bring her, in the right pool he becomes better too. Here, have a distracted, or more. Also, btws, you're gonna be slow as well. Toodles!

[Paddywhack]

21 hours ago, Graf said:

Necropunks: Yeah, expected some nerf. Could have been worse, I guess?

Schtook: Wow, that's a LONG list. In a vaccum each change seems reasonable, but I honestly can't tell how bad all of those together will be. Funny enough, I don't care much about Recruitment Drive nerf, simply because I constantly forgot that rule anyway xD. Peer Review feels very expensive now with 9, with all the loops one has to jump through anyway, but not sure. Still willling to give it a try.

Undergraduate: I hate loosing By Your Side. I know, they added Attendant to soften the blow, but trigger on minions... meh. Many cool moves I loved to play with this crew I can throw into the bin now. Undergrads were my boys. I expected a point increase, but taking their teleport away... not happy with it. Really not happy.

I do think they took Von Schtook down a bit too far with the other changes added in. But I don't think it will drastically change 'how' you play him, it will just be a little harder/less effective. Losing the Push and Focus is annoying especially since they also nerfed Focus in general and it's a Once per Turn action anyway. I really don't like the scheme marker requirement to give out Fast. I think the Minion Only change would have been enough to stop the abuse people were complaining about (Fast Vale).

Necropunks... I wasn't a fan before and now the one thing they could do before is very unreliable.  I think you'll see far fewer (if any) hired. Who wants to risk losing a scheme runner on not having a suit? If you have the suit, great its a scheme runner. If you don't? It's a subpar (imo)  minion?

Undergrads  - I hate to lose By Your Side, but I understand it. Attendant might help a bit. It does have more flexibility in that you can place near any friendly. And you can target a friendly to get it off for a 6M. Still another minion that needs a suited card to get off one of their better abilities. 

Lampads - I think they're better? Not quite the direction I wanted, but they can't be any worse. I might not feel as bad spending the stones on them now, though I'm still not sure you'll see them much in competitive play. My problem in general with Reva is getting enough Burning out in the first place and this doesn't help that at all. In fact it creates another model competing for the Burning Reva needs to function well. I'm more disappointed that Draugr didn't get a slight boost too.... 

Kirai and Ikiryo hurts a bit, but probably fine in the long run. I missed that she gets the summon upgrade when I first read it through. I do think with the changes to Summons in general that her list building will change drastically, but that will be true for other summoners too. 

Dead Rider - I don't play it much, but seem fine to me. It might be a little bit too much, but I doubt it will affect how you use him or his overall usefulness.

Sybelle - I really like these changes. I think the new Bump is great, especially with the changes to Focus. Undivided Attention is also a very interesting defensive ability with a nice 6" aura. Timing and placement for her may be more difficult, but knocking down all enemy models duel totals by 1 during their activations, plus giving out Distracted can really hamper an enemy beater.

Yan Lo and crew... yikes. I do not love these changes. I think they could have stopped the abuse in a more refined way and this feels a bit more like a sledge hammer. I don't mind the change to his upgrade as much as it was definitely oppressive, but when you add all the changes to him, Toshiro, and Sun Quiang together it really knocks them down several rungs. For all the complaining I don't recall hearing about him really dominating any tourneys or destroying things left and right so I'm not sure why the extreme measures. I think they could have used a scalpel and found a more refined way to make the changes tbh. I'm willing to give him a try, but I still miss my M2E Yan Lo and never much cared for the direction he went in M3. 

[Paddywhack]

8 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Sloth was always pretty good with Seamus too, but with Sybelle changes, if you bring her, in the right pool he becomes better too. Here, have a distracted, or more. Also, btws, you're gonna be slow as well. Toodles!

Yeah - Sloth is looking more attractive all the time. And I love that Bump is NOT once per activation so you could potentially really start stacking Distracted up on a model. Especially as even if it's in BtB and can't physically move, it still counts as moving and would net another Distracted. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Re: Necropunks.

One thing that is important to remember is you need all of like 2 leaps in a game before they are performing solidly. 5 is bonkers, but 2 leaps is probably enough that they're a problem.

So I wouldn't write them off too soon.