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GG2 / The road to the exit?


74legion
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Hush! @Maniacal_cackle¬†people still want to appreciate their whine with a little salt. Show some respect ūüėú

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But I agree. Resilience is really a Nightmare thing. If the fight gets clumped up, opponents will struggle getting damage to stay between Alps basically providing Hard to Wound, Serena healing and the heals from botched Wp duels. 

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Just now, Regelridderen said:

Hush! @Maniacal_cackle people still want to appreciate their whine with a little salt. 

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But I agree. Resilience is really a Nightmare thing. If the fight gets clumped up, opponents will struggle getting damage to stay between Alps basically providing Hard to Wound, Serena healing and the heals from botched Wp duels. 

Yeah, totally!

And it isn't like spreading out is an option. I was still scoring Outflank while brawling in the centre like a madman xD (Although barely missed that second point).

But also I hope new players aren't put off by all this. Just want people to know that there's still so much power in the crew (a bit too much to be honest it felt like, but maybe at a competitive level it is balanced).

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On 4/26/2021 at 4:28 AM, Nagi21 said:

mean... between Leveticus, Parker, Von Schill, Viktoria, and Zipp, I'm not pigeonholed into one great crew and a handful of mediocre ones

Wow, not sure wich world I'm living at, because I feel you left out our three best crews xDD. 

 

Also, I think Mercenaries are like poor man's Nephilim, since they can be a bit faster in general, but has way less movement tricks, can't ignore terrain and are squishier as a crew. Parker is considered in my meta a really weak crew, because it's lack of defenses (Family-style). 

But I really think internal balance in Outcast was really good. If the game wanted to spread and interact, both Tara, Zipp and Viktorias were good options, if you wanted to bubble and keep your ground/the center, both Hamelin, Von Schill or Jack Daw could do the job, with Leveticus being able to do almost everything with effectiveness and Parker being left a bit behind. 

 

Now Leveticus crew is quite less impressive, so not sure in wich scenarios you would take him over other options, but increasing scheming necessities in gg2 boosts Parker a bit IMHO. 

 

And Barbaros is obviously the best leader in the crew. The true loyalist Nephilim. 

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3 hours ago, Zebo said:

Wow, not sure wich world I'm living at, because I feel you left out our three best crews xDD

Given that I've heard complaints about being the weakest faction from Guild, Neverborn, Arcanists, Outcasts and Ressers, it seems like the meta is in a pretty good place. Lol

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12 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Given that I've heard complaints about being the weakest faction from Guild, Neverborn, Arcanists, Outcasts and Ressers, it seems like the meta is in a pretty good place. Lol

A good agreement is when all parties are equally dissatisfied. 

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Yeah. I 'm not sure if Outcast is the weakest faction. I'm only quite sure we are not the strongest, and that maybe our strongest crew is a bit weaker than the stronger crews in other factions... Wait... 

XD. 

 

In our meta we've been talking about power levels, and are resolving that this game have a really weird balance, because with so many different objectives, mechanics and tables, one crew may be stupidly strong in some games, and almost useless in others, while the most useless crew could make counter to the strongest and erase it from the table. 

 

For example, I think that the strongest crews out there are Dashell, Sandeep (not so much actually), Shenlong, Von Schtook, old Colette and Zoraida, with old Dreamer, Marcus, Yan Lo and probably the non-Tara Summoners just next, but some (or probably all) of those crews are not easy at all to play. So if you are not very careful and exploit their best shenanigans, they are far from being unbeatable. 

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3 hours ago, Zebo said:

Yeah. I 'm not sure if Outcast is the weakest faction. I'm only quite sure we are not the strongest, and that maybe our strongest crew is a bit weaker than the stronger crews in other factions... Wait... 

XD. 

 

In our meta we've been talking about power levels, and are resolving that this game have a really weird balance, because with so many different objectives, mechanics and tables, one crew may be stupidly strong in some games, and almost useless in others, while the most useless crew could make counter to the strongest and erase it from the table. 

 

For example, I think that the strongest crews out there are Dashell, Sandeep (not so much actually), Shenlong, Von Schtook, old Colette and Zoraida, with old Dreamer, Marcus, Yan Lo and probably the non-Tara Summoners just next, but some (or probably all) of those crews are not easy at all to play. So if you are not very careful and exploit their best shenanigans, they are far from being unbeatable. 

Most people seem to consider Marcus as a lower-middle tier master. I have only played against him once so I can't really comment on his power level.  Would love to hear why you think he is higher on the tier list as I recently came I to a good deal of Chimera keyword models and can't wait to put him on the table (although as a dirty Arcanist)

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Because of big-leaping-beating monsters. 

 

I'm tired of facing him (my usual opponent main crew) and those Cerberus are just insane. 

Also, my opponent is a very casual player, so not interested in sharp lists, but I have nightmares with double Cerberus with Ss cache, blessed, ss miner and silent one with magical training.

They have astonishing mobility, three killing machines, ss generation, card draw, healing, board control, and the miner... 

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Cache kitties don't happen with NVB Marcus and that makes a world of difference. Not being able to stone for Onslaught means having to pitch an upgrade for it, and without the defensive upgrades they die.

NVB Marcus runs a more schemey crew using Adze, Bandersnatch, and Wisps. It is a very different playstyle but so so fun.

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On 4/29/2021 at 7:43 AM, Roadhouse said:

Cache kitties don't happen with NVB Marcus and that makes a world of difference. Not being able to stone for Onslaught means having to pitch an upgrade for it, and without the defensive upgrades they die.

NVB Marcus runs a more schemey crew using Adze, Bandersnatch, and Wisps. It is a very different playstyle but so so fun.

The main issue I don't see people running Marcus in NVB aside from it being a better ARC crew, is that it plays so very similar to Zoraida, and Zoraida is better by a loooooong barrel.

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1 minute ago, Nagi21 said:

The main issue I don't see people running Marcus in NVB aside from it being a better ARC crew, is that it plays so very similar to Zoraida, and Zoraida is better by a loooooong barrel.

That's the same complaint I hear about Neverborn Lucius too. Zoraida overshadows a lot xD

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7 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

The main issue I don't see people running Marcus in NVB aside from it being a better ARC crew, is that it plays so very similar to Zoraida, and Zoraida is better by a loooooong barrel.

I'd say Marcus is different enough. Z's outright strength though does rain on NVB's weaker masters' parades though.

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Yeah, Marcus needs some love in purple. Aside some problematic design choices, he is definitelly balanced around ARC and here in NVB Zoraida does what he does but better. He is fun and challenging tho; for casual games I do recomend giving him a go.

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The question is why a Dreamer ? Stitched together make 1-2 attacks. damage 3 with a good chance to hit yourself . Saber-toothed Cerberus makes 2-5 attacks damage 3. (SS price is equal to their Hp) and if with Marcus, then 6 attacks. 

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3 minutes ago, 74legion said:

The question is why a Dreamer ? Stitched together make 1-2 attacks. damage 3 with a good chance to hit yourself . Saber-toothed Cerberus makes 2-5 attacks damage 3. (SS price is equal to their Hp) and if with Marcus, then 6 attacks. 

The answer probably is because you aren't really comparing equally. A Cerberus that spends 2 stones to get its onslaught twice to get its 5 attacks is costing twice as much as a stitched. And it's a lot harder to kill 2 stitched than 1 Cerberus. 

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30 minutes ago, Adran said:

The answer probably is because you aren't really comparing equally. A Cerberus that spends 2 stones to get its onslaught twice to get its 5 attacks is costing twice as much as a stitched. And it's a lot harder to kill 2 stitched than 1 Cerberus. 

Also dreamer can summon more stitched, so if they were comparable then Dreamer would be pretty broken xD

I find the reason to run dreamer is when you want strong attrition, like on Break The Line. He is the most powerful thing I have played into that strategy so far.

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Did have a game last weekend where my opponent had a Stitched with a 12 sitting out of the game, so I just saved the 13 from my hand til the end of the turn to smack it back when it tried to Gamble me. I blame the fact that I was playing Honeypot; a combo of abilities with 'gamble' in their names vs the evil casino faction... the house always wins!¬†ūüėĚ

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11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also dreamer can summon more stitched, so if they were comparable then Dreamer would be pretty broken xD

Not anymore, to summon stitched you need the widow weaver or vasilisa and Scrap markers/stuffing tokens 

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1 hour ago, Azkral said:

Not anymore, to summon stitched you need the widow weaver or vasilisa and Scrap markers/stuffing tokens 

Oh good point, but also dreamer can still summon backup so the point remains.

A summoners baseline crew should be weaker than other keywords.

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2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh good point, but also dreamer can still summon backup so the point remains.

A summoners baseline crew should be weaker than other keywords.

I also support the new nerf Kirai Ankoku. Think of just 7 models for summoning. stat 7 . whisper saves stones. Yes, and calls not to fight but at a distance. Her keyword is too strong. Its models need to be weakened by 2 times. Start with Goryo.

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9 minutes ago, 74legion said:

I still hope to see the video report and  in the new GG2. Did someone do it?

What are you asking for here, exactly? A battle report using GG2, or a long-form discussion with thoughts on GG2 generally?

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