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Lucius a potential cadmus answer?


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This is all theoryfaux, but hang with me.  This is going to be a wild ride.

The way I see it, Lucius has three good things about his matchup into nexus.  

1. Decent protection from the initial parasite  push.

Many of lucis crew are either disguised or can put attackers on negatives, which will make the nests have a hard time getting that first pinning parasite off.  And lucius crews have decent wp and good card draw to handle the simple duels that lead to parasites, and shielded from the lawyers can help with that too.

2. Pass tokens let lucius get cards.

Does your opponent want to summon 3 e&e?  Sure go ahead, but lucius will get cards from it. When he uses the pass tokens.

3.  Misinformation is great against low wp.

Especially ones that want to get in your face.

4. Lucius can use hidden sniper to attack those key hard to reach models.  

I'm not sure this pays off, but I feel like luci could really pressure nexus herself and meredith with some hidden sniper shots.

I'm not sure that's enough to deal with what cadmus is cooking but it might be worth a try.  

I've also been giving some thought to greed, which is just horrifying, and the undercover reporter, which I don't hate.

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This is all theoryfaux, but hang with me.  This is going to be a wild ride. The way I see it, Lucius has three good things about his matchup into nexus.   1. Decent protection from the initi

Both basse and the sandworm can ruin the shadow markers, which makes Ivan much more vulnerable.  Pathfinders ignore concealment.   Austringers ignore concealment. Rough riders have a plus to attack fl

Is it? I'm not sure about this assumption. What about a list dedicated to pest control (killin E&E and nests) and mobility (to avoid the meat grinding bubble).  Right now, the idea to fight f

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

I've also been giving some thought to greed

If Nexus wasn't wp7 I think the Take It All trigger would be perfect for messing with Nexus, since she's always going to have an upgrade and never going to give it up.

Austringers might be good for picking off Eyes and Ears, while talking OOK picks.

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Although I agree with those are strong points against Cadmus, please take a notice of Emissary who would always stay next to important models. Cadmus can easily afford standing Emissary in deployment. The game winning models are Eyes & Ears, Archivist & Cadmus itself. Although shutting down Archivist with triple Hidden Sniper seems like plan we must always remember about their  Incorporeal & pseudo-Vengeance aka We are Legion. The best you can do as Lucius is taking triple Rifleman & Steward and trying to shot down enemy with all those high threat shots and pray he won't get close enough, although you kind off sacrifice schemes to being able to shot down his expendable models. If only Lucius was a little stronger I could see this work, but for now as he and his keyword is lacking in so many areas you are better off with taking Basse for now.

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7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Worth a try for sure!

What's the plan for dealing with the Emissary? I think that's a critical component of dismantling Plaag's Cadmus.

I've been playing more against Nathan Ls cadmus (forget his forum name), and he doesn't use it.  But lucius can pack obeys or lures in his crew.

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If the Emissary is standing in its deployment zone next to important models all game you win. The end.

My plan for dealing with the Emissary is to...not attack it. Especially with Lucius. You go wide better than Cadmus can, pick your schemes accordingly. Put the Eyes and Ears down. Lean into your denial pieces.

Pathfinder has my favorite gun to copy - 14" ignores concealment and has a trigger for Slow. Plus he brings lots of free movement and generally good utility.

My problem with Lucius into Cadmus (and my biggest issue with Cadmus generally) is the Nests existing. I can't theoryfaux an efficient way to deal with them jamming up my crew. I guess Investigators and hoping I've got the cards for No Witnesses to 3-shot them. 

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4 hours ago, Filox said:

Although I agree with those are strong points against Cadmus, please take a notice of Emissary who would always stay next to important models. Cadmus can easily afford standing Emissary in deployment. The game winning models are Eyes & Ears, Archivist & Cadmus itself. Although shutting down Archivist with triple Hidden Sniper seems like plan we must always remember about their  Incorporeal & pseudo-Vengeance aka We are Legion. The best you can do as Lucius is taking triple Rifleman & Steward and trying to shot down enemy with all those high threat shots and pray he won't get close enough, although you kind off sacrifice schemes to being able to shot down his expendable models. If only Lucius was a little stronger I could see this work, but for now as he and his keyword is lacking in so many areas you are better off with taking Basse for now.

I think taking out archivist is definitely lucius's biggest problem. Archy loves to see min 2 damage coming at him.   That being said, mitigating the other parts I wonder if luci could weather the storm.

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1 minute ago, admiralvorkraft said:

If the Emissary is standing in its deployment zone next to important models all game you win. The end.

My plan for dealing with the Emissary is to...not attack it. Especially with Lucius. You go wide better than Cadmus can, pick your schemes accordingly. Put the Eyes and Ears down. Lean into your denial pieces.

Pathfinder has my favorite gun to copy - 14" ignores concealment and has a trigger for Slow. Plus he brings lots of free movement and generally good utility.

My problem with Lucius into Cadmus (and my biggest issue with Cadmus generally) is the Nests existing. I can't theoryfaux an efficient way to deal with them jamming up my crew. I guess Investigators and hoping I've got the cards for No Witnesses to 2-shot them. 

2 ideas do deal with jamming nests.  1. Obey them, tell them to go away. 2. Alan Reid seems particularly well suited for dealing with them.  

But yeah, I agree they are a problem.  But they are a problem I struggle with with every guild crew.

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Just now, 4thstringer said:

I think taking out archivist is definitely lucius's biggest problem. Archy loves to see min 2 damage coming at him.   That being said, mitigating the other parts I wonder if luci could weather the storm.

Archivist has a 10" range. Play around it. It's not a perfect solution, but that's the Lucius game plan. 

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5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

If Nexus wasn't wp7 I think the Take It All trigger would be perfect for messing with Nexus, since she's always going to have an upgrade and never going to give it up.

Austringers might be good for picking off Eyes and Ears, while talking OOK picks.

Austringers just don't do enough damage (crazy, huh?)

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Just now, 4thstringer said:

2 ideas do deal with jamming nests.  1. Obey them, tell them to go away. 2. Alan Reid seems particularly well suited for dealing with them.  

But yeah, I agree they are a problem.  But they are a problem I struggle with with every guild crew.

They are the single biggest issue with Cadmus. I think Void is pretty much the only keyword with an efficient response.

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3 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Archivist has a 10" range. Play around it. It's not a perfect solution, but that's the Lucius game plan. 

That sounds like a good model to be obeying. If I were facing Cadmus with Lucius I would be looking at trying to obey the Archivist. Since you are controlling it you can choose to Siphon power the Archivist for the crow for killer late fees, and then "we are legion" the damage back into the crew (whilst the Archivist still takes 1 because its irreducible) So you are looking at 5+ damage and a card draw/discard from the Obey if you can get it to land. 

Deafening silence needs to go up from the Cadmus crew fast to stop this sort of thing, which at least has forced the Archivist to activate (and if you have low cards, this is probably a good use for them)

 

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2 minutes ago, Adran said:

That sounds like a good model to be obeying. If I were facing Cadmus with Lucius I would be looking at trying to obey the Archivist. Since you are controlling it you can choose to Siphon power the Archivist for the crow for killer late fees, and then "we are legion" the damage back into the crew (whilst the Archivist still takes 1 because its irreducible) So you are looking at 5+ damage and a card draw/discard from the Obey if you can get it to land. 

Deafening silence needs to go up from the Cadmus crew fast to stop this sort of thing, which at least has forced the Archivist to activate (and if you have low cards, this is probably a good use for them)

 

Absolutely. And that's the threat if the Cadmus player breaks their bubble at all. I guess even in the bubble the Emissary isn't a bad Obey target either (Wp 5, good attack, or I just have it walk away...) so if they want to ditch a card it's all good.

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Of course, Obey'ing the Archivist is a trick which works exactly once per Cadmus player.  Thereafter they will just give the Archivist Flush with Cash and pay to cancel the Obey.

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3 minutes ago, Armour said:

Of course, Obey'ing the Archivist is a trick which works exactly once per Cadmus player.  Thereafter they will just give the Archivist Flush with Cash and pay to cancel the Obey.

And that's why you have a crew that can do multiple Obeys in a turn. 

Flush with Cash on an Archivist restricts it to at most 1 Excess funds, and it I issue command a lawyer to Obey the Achivist, that action Drew me a card, gained me a soulstone and cost them a soulstone. And then when the lawyer activates it gets to obey again, and the bribery is used up already. (and again when the changling activates and so forth). 

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1 minute ago, Dark Reaper said:

The two biggest problems are going to be that the emissary still exists and can be relented against for min2 and that Archivist has wp6 against a stat5 obey.

You're playing Lucius, you have better cards. Your obey on the Emissary can just be to walk it out of Take the Hit and healing aura range. 

But again, if they stay clustered the whole game you just play the rest of the board and win that way. 

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4 minutes ago, Dark Reaper said:

The two biggest problems are going to be that the emissary still exists and can be relented against for min2 and that Archivist has wp6 against a stat5 obey.

I agree these are problems. You can't get around take the hit, but obeying the emissary to run away might mean that the bubble is opened up. When I've played Cadmus games with the emissary positioning gets very complicated to make all these things work, so its hard to say what you should do when you are obeying the emissary, because it will depend a lot on how the board is, but Intimidating roar on something to kick it out the bubble isn't a bad plan if the emissary walking away doesn't work. And if I've forced Cadmus to hold 13s to prevent obeys, then I'm not too unhappy in a crew that should have better card draw over all. 

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Just now, 4thstringer said:

How bunched up is plaags emissary club? Could you take him out with greed? (I'm sure he's reading this to say "if you could have before you can't now")

I don't know - he has several battle videos put up in the NPE Nexus thread so you can go and take a look. But its fair to say that if greed was against the crew he may well spread it out more, (I haven't seen how it adapts to facing area damage, but I'm fairly sure that it does have a plan for it). 

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