So who are those “s-tier” masters?

[Sanik]

From here and there, I keep seeing those reference to “s-tier masters” who are so incredibly offending the game. Yet I just figure out who they are and why they are so bad for the game. I hear Collette is one of them- and I hate her too lol -  but I didn’t feel like she was that npe...
 

Anyway, so who are those s-tier masters? And why? 

[Plaag]

shenlong, misaki, asami

ophelia, sommer

dashel

colette

dreamer

leveticus

schtook

most of explorers

[Maniacal_cackle]

I wonder about Dashel being S tier, because he hasn't been dominating the world series.

Also worth noting that S tier probably changes a bit between single and double masters. Not all S tier masters do well as doubles, so things can shift around a bit. Molly for example is probably a second tier master, but if you give her access to double masters I'd probably put her at top tier (though probably only Molly/Kirai seems S tier to me).

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I wonder about Dashel being S tier, because he hasn't been dominating the world series.

Also worth noting that S tier probably changes a bit between single and double masters. Not all S tier masters do well as doubles, so things can shift around a bit. Molly for example is probably a second tier master, but if you give her access to double masters I'd probably put her at top tier (though probably only Molly/Kirai seems S tier to me).

legislat playes him very well, he won in final of vwc against emma's dreamer

and he has very good card draw, one of best summon in malifaux-executioner

[belorey]

GOD :

-Nexus

S-tier:

-Exporers: Ivan

-10T: Misaki and Shenlong (special mention to Fuhatsu)

-Bayou: Ophelia and Som'er

-Guild: Dashel

-Arcanist: Sandeep and Colette (special mention to Mechanical Rider)

-Neverborn: Zoraida and Dreamer

-Ressers: Von Schtook

-Outcast: Leveticus.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I also wonder about the classificaiton of S tier.

In my mind, there's basically tiers 1/2/3 (or top, second, third) in a balanced game. And then above that is the S tier stuff that's just blatantly broken and beats everything. It's hard to imagine that an S tier list can be so big. So to some degree, I wonder if Nexus is S tier, and almost everything else is just top tier 😜

As is, almost 25% of masters seem to be considered S tier.

I guess it depends on how you envision tiers though.

[Math Mathonwy]

My list would be something like this:

S-tier

Misaki, Shenlong

Colette, Sandeep

Dreamer

Von Schtook, Kirai

Leveticus

Nexus (I do like the God tier category for this one), Ivan

A-tier

Ophelia, Somer, Zoraida

Yan Lo

Dashel

Asami, McCabe

Jedza, Maxine

[NoisyAssassin]

It's really interesting to me that everyone has included Misaki, and yet other than Minako I've literally never heard a single complaint about her. She's certainly mentioned as being strong, but doesn't have the salt-levels that the other masters on these lists get. My impression from chatter about her and playing with and against her once each was that she's good but not great, more like the lower end of A-tier.

Has she been tearing up the Vassal World Series recently and I haven't noticed? Is she a sleeper hit that most of the community hasn't cracked yet?

[katadder]

It all comes down to personal opinion to a degree I guess. There are a few the community agrees on but past that you will find different people think different things.

I would disagree with leveticus, zoraida, misaki for example, even shenlong is no longer there. Probably others I disagree with but there is more community backing for them 

[belorey]

14 minutes ago, katadder said:

It all comes down to personal opinion to a degree I guess. There are a few the community agrees on but past that you will find different people think different things.

I would disagree with leveticus, zoraida, misaki for example, even shenlong is no longer there. Probably others I disagree with but there is more community backing for them 

I hope wyrd agree with us and use the bat-nerf on them in the incoming GG2. 😂

[SEV]

I agreed with @Maniacal_cackledefintion... S tier is usually for stuff that break the game / need to be fixed to keep the meta healthy... 

I think a lot of player tend to exaggerate the power of specific master. 

Right now the only master that seem 100% S-tier to me is Nexus.

Might be : Dreamer, Colette, Ivan.

And even for the above. I don't think they break the games, but they're close. 

The other master on people list are clearly tier 1.

With 53 masters each tier should be around 18 masters 

S-TIER

Nexus

TIER 1

Colette

Sandeep

Sommer

Ophelia 

Ivan

Jedza

Dashel

Hoffman

Dreamer

Zoraida 

Leveticus

Hamelin 

Von Schtook

Yan Lo 

Kirai 

Asami

Shen Long 

Misaki

TIER 2

Toni

Kaeris

Mah

Ulix

Zipp

Anya

Cooper

Maxine

Nellie

Lady J

Bass

Titania

Pandora

Nekima

Von Shill

Tara

Jack Daw

Molly

Seamus

McCabe

TIER 3

Marcus

Rasputina 

Brewmaster

Wong

Lucius

Perdita

Sonia

Euripides

Viktoria

Parker

McMourning

Reva

Jacob

Mei

Youko

Note : this is my take on it, I do not pretend to have extensive knowledge of all master (quite the opposite as I didn't even play against many of them)... So this is based upon the numerous discussions I read on the subject and the tournament results I saw (mainly from the vassal world series). 

[SEV]

Also my most trustworthy indicator of tier : if @ShinChan like a master, it must be tier 3 🤣.

[ShinChan]

27 minutes ago, SEV said:

Also my most trustworthy indicator of tier : if @ShinChan like a master, it must be tier 3 🤣.

Ehhhhh!!! I like Leveticus, Hamelin and Ophelia too 🤣

[Kharnage]

For me, there's very few S tier masters. S tier masters to me are the masters that people will jump factions for. If you or someone you know has thought to themselves "SCREW IT! I'll just play this because I'm so tired of it!" Then they're probably S tier. For me, beyond Nexus, it's Dreamer, Colette, and Schtook. Probably Ivan but I don't have enough reps, possibly Jedza, but my jury's still out on her. They all give some feeling of "their consistently-achievable end game condition has been met, it is over now."
Did you hit turn 3 without killing half his crew and Dreamer's doing a Lucid Engine? You lose.
Did you get your activated important model swapped into that pile of murderers Colette is friends with? You lose.
Did you get your 8+ cost model killed by Valedictorian early and now he's got a Viscera out? You lose. 
Zoraida, Misaki, and Dashel make the top of the A tier list for me, because they do what they do well, but not so well that you feel it's over as soon as it begins. I think that where they are now, more or less, is where the top of the curve should be. Strong, annoying, but there's counterplay and clear losing conditions for each of them. 

[ooshawn]

Being a guy that digs into malifaux everyday while I'm off work, I see several names that consistently come up. I don't have any experience with them in third edition though. The names I see come up have pretty much been repeated in this post over and over.   And that list is pretty much what kharnage just said. I see those names on this forum....pretty much every day.  Although to be honest , I'm much more interested in who the F tier masters are. As nerfs feel twice as worse as buffs feel good, so unless you only butt heads against people who abuse strong models constantly to get good feels from winning table top games, it's not really as interesting from my point of view who is strong if they aren't far and away ruining the game. 

[santaclaws01]

8 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

For me, there's very few S tier masters. S tier masters to me are the masters that people will jump factions for. If you or someone you know has thought to themselves "SCREW IT! I'll just play this because I'm so tired of it!" Then they're probably S tier. For me, beyond Nexus, it's Dreamer, Colette, and Schtook. Probably Ivan but I don't have enough reps, possibly Jedza, but my jury's still out on her. They all give some feeling of "their consistently-achievable end game condition has been met, it is over now."
Did you hit turn 3 without killing half his crew and Dreamer's doing a Lucid Engine? You lose.
Did you get your activated important model swapped into that pile of murderers Colette is friends with? You lose.
Did you get your 8+ cost model killed by Valedictorian early and now he's got a Viscera out? You lose. 
Zoraida, Misaki, and Dashel make the top of the A tier list for me, because they do what they do well, but not so well that you feel it's over as soon as it begins. I think that where they are now, more or less, is where the top of the curve should be. Strong, annoying, but there's counterplay and clear losing conditions for each of them. 

I think Resser Yan Lo deserves a mention there as well. Between Toshiro being able to make new bodies for Ancestors on the chance that you have actually killed one and the quite frankly insane healing he has available it is incredibly hard to bust through the wall that is his crew before you can even start to try and attrition him. And then turn 3 comes around and he just goes super sayin and now you have this nigh-unkillable old man in your crew with a constant hazardous and concealment aura, taxing you trying to do anything and messing up your positioning.

[im_open_to_suggestions]

No S-Tier masters, only S-tier players

[Kharnage]

1 minute ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

No S-Tier masters, only S-tier players

Well you can't nerf me

 

[Maogrim]

And with dream-like confidence I bought the last three names on SEV's list before getting in touch with who was halfway good in ME3.. 😅

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Kharnage said:

Well you can't nerf me

 

Inb4 Wyrd nerfs Nekima again XD

[Kharnage]

Just now, Mycellanious said:

Inb4 Wyrd nerfs Nekima again XD

My mind would be unbroken, but my soul...
My running paranoia is that Wyrd has OBVIOUSLY hired someone (must be that Alt Reva money) with the sole responsibility of nerfing what I play, and they would bring Nekima lower still, so I stay away like a lover scorned so that she might be safe.

[touchdown]

@SEV I'm not sure you'd expect a flat distribution. Probably a bell curve is more likely with most masters in tier 2 and a smaller number either clearly above or below that. However, it's also possible to see a skewed distribution if the balancing techniques Wyrd uses favor either weaker or stronger over the opposite.

[Jinn]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

And with dream-like confidence I bought the last three names on SEV's list before getting in touch with who was halfway good in ME3.. 😅

Don't worry, Mei and Jacob aren't that bad. The tiers themselves are only organised by faction, so those aren't positioned as the three worst Masters overall in that list. Youko deserves her spot at the bottom though.

IIRC Lynch was actually kind of considered S-tier at first release of M3E before the meta was more developed/schemes changed/Yas was nerfed.

[SEV]

33 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Don't worry, Mei and Jacob aren't that bad. The tiers themselves are only organised by faction, so those aren't positioned as the three worst Masters overall in that list. Youko deserves her spot at the bottom though.

IIRC Lynch was actually kind of considered S-tier at first release of M3E before the meta was more developed/schemes changed/Yas was nerfed.

Yep, this was not organized by power in a specific tier.

Actually as there's S tier, there's probably also a F tier as Ooshawn said it.

That would be masters that absolutely need a buff to keep them on par. Those one would be on my shortlist for F-tier : 

Rasputina, Youko and Wong. 

[RisingPhoenix]

21 hours ago, belorey said:

GOD :

-Nexus

S-tier:

-Exporers: Ivan

-10T: Misaki and Shenlong (special mention to Fuhatsu)

-Bayou: Ophelia and Som'er

-Guild: Dashel

-Arcanist: Sandeep and Colette (special mention to Mechanical Rider)

-Neverborn: Zoraida and Dreamer

-Ressers: Von Schtook

-Outcast: Leveticus.

 

Definitely agree with this for the most part, might knock a few down to A.  You could afford to take a good hammer to all of those.  Although Levi got a hit in GG1.  Some of them would be fairly minor changes (Make Zorida use LOS rules like everyone else, bam done) some of those deserve special attention for doing everything and doing it way too well. 

My definitions:

F-Tier: Mechanically broken in some way that renders them unusable as intended.  Obviously defective even at first play (Cornelius Basse prior to the rest of the Explorers faction releasing, GG0 Reva)
D-Tier: Obviously sub-par models and no standout strengths into any strategy.  In all key areas, is outdone by some other crew in faction, and is not a good generalist.  There is objectively no reason (given access to all models) that you'd choose this crew if you are playing to win (Wong, Tara)

C-Tier: The 'roleplayer' tier.  A weaker crew, but with some gimmick that makes them narrow but extremely potent in their lane.  A good C-tier can look A-Tier... until you see them into the wrong situation.  Can make for absurd ambushes, but can lose you the game at master selection.  (Nellie, Jack Daw)

B-Tier: All around 'good' crew that includes some strong models.  Worth bringing into at least one strategy, contender for best in faction (minus S tiers) for a strategy.  Might even be among the best at one or two things.  (Zipp, Molly)

A-Tier: A crew with many strengths, and few discernible weaknesses.  Can field multiple strong builds, and has flexibility against many masters, almost never feels disadvantaged.  Can even hold their own versus S tiers.  (Hoffman, Mah Tuckett)

S-Tier: Fundamentally strong crew that has an extra element or two that breaks principles of the game.  Such as a summoner that can redraw their entire hand twice a round and create unresistable damage bombs, or a great crew that also has a beater that can double activate and can use a bonus action to sideline a model for the next two rounds.   Essentially a C-tier+A tier, possessing both narrow unmatched power and broad flexible strength.  Occasionally an A-tier crew that's just overtuned across the board, every model being 'just a bit' too good and having synergy (Levetics a good example of this, especially GG0 Levi)

God-Tier: Has MULTIPLE different rulebreaker mechanics, or a single mechanic so powerful that there's no contesting it.  A crew where S tiers feel outmatched and A tiers often feel like they're playing a different game entirely.  Incredibly specialized countercrews specifically picked for the matchup often find themselves losing to generic take-all-comers lists.  Manifestly unfair. 

God and F need to be addressed immediately, S and D need to be adjusted specifically to improve the crew.  Other than that, model-by-model adjustments keep A-C in flux.  Ideally you want all crews to exist in that A-C range.