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How's the power level/balance of ES (other than Cadmus)?


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Cadmus has understandably dominated the conversation, but how is everyone finding the power level of the rest of Explorer's Society?

I don't have a well informed opinion, but here's my initial impressions:

  • English Ivan was the boogeyman for a while, and I think is still very much top tier (just overshadowed by Cadmus).
  • Jedza seems extremely powerful in her niche, particularly against crews where healing is not optional (like regeneration).
  • Basse seems stronger in Guild? But Flush With Cash is super powerful, so who knows.
  • McCabe I think has tons of promise, though he can't go for his usual elite minion plan like he can in TT.
  • EVS seems fine, although I've only played/seen them once.
  • Syndicate is incomplete, so not really comment worthy at the moment.
  • I know nothing about Apex.

What do people think? I think the faction seems extremely balanced, or even underpowered, other than Cadmus and Ivan?

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Oh I am totally with you there Plaag, I'm more of a fluffy player that picks the models I buy based on how much I like the look and feel of them  and their lore and mechanical themes more than because

Raspy has enough anti-synergy with herself that her card and AP pressure often don't matter much, because she's inflicting the same on herself with her barely functioning rules. All her actions r

I get it's ribbing, but why is everybody mad I dabbled in Thunders? If being a faction traitor was the issue, I'd get it, but Anya is cool but Misaki's not? Honestly I had been playing with the idea

6 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Cadmus has understandably dominated the conversation, but how is everyone finding the power level of the rest of Explorer's Society?

I don't have a well informed opinion, but here's my initial impressions:

  • English Ivan was the boogeyman for a while, and I think is still very much top tier (just overshadowed by Cadmus).
  • Jedza seems extremely powerful in her niche, particularly against crews where healing is not optional (like regeneration).
  • Basse seems stronger in Guild? But Flush With Cash is super powerful, so who knows.
  • McCabe I think has tons of promise, though he can't go for his usual elite minion plan like he can in TT.
  • EVS seems fine, although I've only played/seen them once.
  • Syndicate is incomplete, so not really comment worthy at the moment.
  • I know nothing about Apex.

What do people think? I think the faction seems extremely balanced, or even underpowered, other than Cadmus and Ivan?

Basse OP nomatter the faction. biggest sleeper of the hobby

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Just now, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oooooo can you expand on this? He is one of my crews, but I've only got the core box + crockett and sand worm assembled so far, so not really experiencing true Basse yet.

I played him exclusively for the end of 2019 and start of 2020 probably about 9 months total in guild. i had a fixed list that after some tweeking i was taking to tournaments and always preformed well.  Not taken him in Explorer's yet due to covid stopping tabletop games and real life allowing no time for Vassel games.   I have theory fauxed some meme lists with him in Explorer's but all in all i would still be happy to take my fixed guild list into any master or scheme pool. 

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Just now, im_open_to_suggestions said:

I played him exclusively for the end of 2019 and start of 2020 probably about 9 months total in guild. i had a fixed list that after some tweeking i was taking to tournaments and always preformed well.  Not taken him in Explorer's yet due to covid stopping tabletop games and real life allowing no time for Vassel games.   I have theory fauxed some meme lists with him in Explorer's but all in all i would still be happy to take my fixed guild list into any master or scheme pool. 

Can I snag that list? It'll give me a starting point to experiment in ES!

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1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Can I snag that list? It'll give me a starting point to experiment in ES!

Basse, baby basse, Reichart (no prisoners) 2 austringers, pathfinder, pale rider, trap. 5ss

was after much tweeking but it got to the stage that i knew the list's abilities insideout and was happy with it nomatter the scheme pool, table or opposing master. 

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Cadmus has understandably dominated the conversation, but how is everyone finding the power level of the rest of Explorer's Society?

I don't have a well informed opinion, but here's my initial impressions:

  • English Ivan was the boogeyman for a while, and I think is still very much top tier (just overshadowed by Cadmus).
  • Jedza seems extremely powerful in her niche, particularly against crews where healing is not optional (like regeneration).
  • Basse seems stronger in Guild? But Flush With Cash is super powerful, so who knows.
  • McCabe I think has tons of promise, though he can't go for his usual elite minion plan like he can in TT.
  • EVS seems fine, although I've only played/seen them once.
  • Syndicate is incomplete, so not really comment worthy at the moment.
  • I know nothing about Apex.

What do people think? I think the faction seems extremely balanced, or even underpowered, other than Cadmus and Ivan?

ivan, jedza op

apex, syndicate, evs near op

basse, mccabe are still masters on the level of other factions-just common masters

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1 hour ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Basse, baby basse, Reichart (no prisoners) 2 austringers, pathfinder, pale rider, trap. 5ss

was after much tweeking but it got to the stage that i knew the list's abilities insideout and was happy with it nomatter the scheme pool, table or opposing master. 

dont know how u play this-dont have good card draw, dont have enough healing, no schemerun, looks very weak

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I think syndicate and apex are very well balanced along other factions.

Jedza and Ivan are of a level with other top tiers, no more than that and that's currently due to newness (I can see jedza dropping quickly, Ivan not so much).

Basse and mccabe are where they were previously, mccabe is better thunders.

Evs I haven't a clue but they look middling. May be secret sleeper good or may be bad.

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1 hour ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

i play it well as my tournament wins prove. 

maybe u want to play? i can play any master u choose, any faction-just want to see-maybe im missing something, but my exp tells me that this crew is bad

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Just now, Plaag said:

maybe u want to play? i can play any master u choose, any faction-just want to see-maybe im missing something, but my exp tells me that this crew is bad

I would love to play however a full time job and a 5month old daughter is making this impossible.  

breakdown of usual playstyle is "bringit" against something i dont like, Load it full of injured and then kill it off. Rince and repeat.  Use the traps as speed bumps and use the austringers unimpeded to get where they need to be. 

Having played in tournaments with me @katadder can vouch for how it has preformed. 

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13 minutes ago, Plaag said:

ivan, jedza op

apex, syndicate, evs near op

basse, mccabe are still masters on the level of other factions-just common masters

I get Ivan, but what makes Jedza OP? If you're not healing yourself she is a bubble crew, which usually has lots of weaknesses (maybe I'm underestimating the crew because all my models have hard to wound).

What makes Apex better than Seamus? Stronger keyword to support the master I assume?

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2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I get Ivan, but what makes Jedza OP? If you're not healing yourself she is a bubble crew, which usually has lots of weaknesses (maybe I'm underestimating the crew because all my models have hard to wound).

What makes Apex better than Seamus? Stronger keyword to support the master I assume?

It's plague, he says all explorers OP. They are not to that level 🤣

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4 minutes ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

I would love to play however a full time job and a 5month old daughter is making this impossible.  

breakdown of usual playstyle is "bringit" against something i dont like, Load it full of injured and then kill it off. Rince and repeat.  Use the traps as speed bumps and use the austringers unimpeded to get where they need to be. 

Having played in tournaments with me @katadder can vouch for how it has preformed. 

I will say I never played them but obviously he has won against out scrubs 🤣

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1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I get Ivan, but what makes Jedza OP? If you're not healing yourself she is a bubble crew, which usually has lots of weaknesses (maybe I'm underestimating the crew because all my models have hard to wound).

What makes Apex better than Seamus? Stronger keyword to support the master I assume?

he shoots much more better, can shoot more than 2-3 times per turn, have by your side for scheme run, model 9, double pos for dmg, ignores cover, htk and demise, with card draw

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I absolutely love Lord Cooper and it’d be awesome to see someone with more game experience play him and upload some battle reports so I can get a better idea of how to use him correctly! I’ve got about 5 games in with him and am 3-2 against another pretty new player. 
 

That being said, he doesn’t really stand out as overwhelmingly good to me since he allows for a lot of counter play.
 

For reference, the list I usually run is Cooper, runaways, Artemis, Ullr, model 9, malisaurus with flush, vatagi, crysis, 4 stones. 
 

Coop is a beast at range but can pretty easily have LoS blocked since his mobility isn’t huge. Out of activation he gets a bump from Ullr and a bump from the Rex but nothing outrageous. 11 wounds and armor 1 means he gets fried very easily if you overextend him even a little. He’s also a huge AP drain- requiring other models to dedicate actions to him to make him optimal. And even then you can still very easily miss with his shots or only hit for 3 reducible damage. 
 

Model 9 is probably the second best model in the keyword and is a fantastic scheme/annoyance piece. But he’s very reliant on stones and armor to stay alive and only really kills through chip damage. The whole keyword kind of lacks defensive tech outside of ullrs bubble and the only healing means that Cooper isn’t getting the 2 shots he really needs to be worth it. 
 

the keyword also struggles for card draw a LOT. Vatagi can draw one but that’s about it for automatic draw. I generally try and save tomes  for Cooper’s trigger but that’s not hyper reliable. 
 

Again, I’m still super inexperienced but it seems like Cooper is a very offense oriented crew that doesn’t have the healing or card draw for sustainability so if you can survive coopers activation and focus down model 9 or the Rex, the crew kind of falls apart. 

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Ivan is definitely a top master. Not 100% sure that better than things like Dreamer, but definitely on the top 5 of best masters. If he's not OP, he's borderline. 

I don't think Jedza is a problem. She's really good, but there's ways to deal with her.

I believe that Maxime is better than Jedza, maybe close to Ivan levels, but she and her crew really need a lot of practice.

Anya and Lord Cooper are good, better tan the overall if we take into account all the factions, but nothing close to be OP. 

 

I'm actually fine with the Emissary having Df7. He has Wp5 and take the hit doesn't come for free. The healing however, should be once per activation. 

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29 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Ivan is definitely a top master. Not 100% sure that better than things like Dreamer, but definitely on the top 5 of best masters. If he's not OP, he's borderline. 

I don't think Jedza is a problem. She's really good, but there's ways to deal with her.

I believe that Maxime is better than Jedza, maybe close to Ivan levels, but she and her crew really need a lot of practice.

Anya and Lord Cooper are good, better tan the overall if we take into account all the factions, but nothing close to be OP.

I'm actually fine with the Emissary having Df7. He has Wp5 and take the hit doesn't come for free. The healing however, should be once per activation. 

I agree Ivan is in top 5 masters in game - he's weaker than Dreamer/Nexus/Von Schtook. For me his power level is bit higher than Kirai. 

Jedza is an issue when you play certain keywords (like Nephilim, Ulix or Sommer) but she struggles against mobile schemy crews (as she prefers running in ball of death).

Maxine is same as Jedza - really good against certain crews. Machinists shutting down auras mean you don't have to bother with all those hazardous auras or something like Misery. You also have cards to pass the duels from shockwaves and pulses or other simple duels. 

Anya is good, though I'll wait for OC starter to give final judgement for her.

Cooper is amazing in public executions, though he might struggle in other schemes.

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On 2/28/2021 at 2:03 PM, Plaag said:

ivan, jedza op

apex, syndicate, evs near op

basse, mccabe are still masters on the level of other factions-just common masters

This was pretty much my impression too. 

To the point where if my opponent were to declare ES, I would seriously think about just scooping.

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16 minutes ago, belorey said:

I think a way to mitigate all :+flip on DUA models should be nerfing their Stats by at least 1. So they go with a 5:+flip as a typical stat and no 6:+flip or 7:+flip.

 

TBH DUA hit pretty accurate, they just don't pack a lot of punch -  most models in keyword have damage track of 2/3/4 with occasional trigger (except Ivan, who has it practically build-in). Models with guns have stat of 5, shooting at 8". They will hit you, just not hit very hard. The keyword relies on shadow people to engage in combat, when Corvis/Eva/Infiltrators score points. 

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