Jump to content

WE Neverborn do not MARCh, we charge (vassal march tournament discussion)


SEV
 Share

Recommended Posts

I played against a beast of a tara player just now and learned a lot. I think that fighting schtook is not remotely a possibility. I'm gonna lose for sure, but I'm gonna do my best to score a few points. If I could change my list I definitely would have taken 1-2 false witnesses, their ability to force a model to remove one of their own scheme markers seems like it'd be so good

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also losing his double obey he had in second edition means quite often you are trading lucius ap for a walk action on a minion, he definitely wants a once per turn drop a scheme marker trigger or double obey like zoraida

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ooshawn said:

he definitely wants a once per turn drop a scheme marker trigger or double obey like zoraida

Wishing for abilities that aren't there won't get you Ws. In my opinion, the Draw Out Secrets trigger across the keyword models is where you get most of your action efficiency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

Also losing his double obey he had in second edition means quite often you are trading lucius ap for a walk action on a minion, he definitely wants a once per turn drop a scheme marker trigger or double obey like zoraida

Yeah, obey is inherently inefficient.

I think a key thing with Lucius is having your crew well positioned. Then the obey turns from a 'oh, they get a free walk' to 'Lucius can attack ANYWHERE on the board because he has so many obey options."

Entourage also seems incredibly powerful.

Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about with this crew.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another option of course is to obey your models into good positions so that when they activate, they get full value out of it.

If a regular model goes walk, walk, next turn charge, attack, attack...

An obeyed model should be able to go walk, walk, charge, attack. Next turn attack, attack.

So sometimes even obeying a walk results in another attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i know, that's what i'm saying. I wish I had ANY draw out secrets in my crew, but I took lawyers and changlings, which everything is a 1 for 1 ap, so i'm screwed lol. That's why i'm like, lucius as the master probably wants something better than a 2 inch push or condition removal. They are good for sure, but once a turn if he had draw out secrets on his ability, it would make him 100x better

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly he's right without draw out secrets the crew is just inherently very ineffient. they don't have anything that extends their movement on their own like fast, leap, etc. It's just a walk, or a 2 inch push if you are 6 inches from lucius. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

i know, that's what i'm saying. I wish I had ANY draw out secrets in my crew, but I took lawyers and changlings, which everything is a 1 for 1 ap, so i'm screwed lol. That's why i'm like, lucius as the master probably wants something better than a 2 inch push or condition removal. They are good for sure, but once a turn if he had draw out secrets on his ability, it would make him 100x better

Don't forget you can obey a model to get out of engagement, then on another turn obey that model to drop a scheme marker. So you've already got more scheme marker options than most crews.

1 minute ago, ooshawn said:

Honestly he's right without draw out secrets the crew is just inherently very ineffient. they don't have anything that extends their movement on their own like fast, leap, etc. It's just a walk, or a 2 inch push if you are 6 inches from lucius. 

If you pull entourage off twice in a game on 5 models, that's an extra 20 inches of movement. That's so much movement xD

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the way it works, is that when you use that trigger, it drops the scheme marker where they stand, and then they move. sorry I missunderstand what we were talking about. I thought that was something different that only the investigators had

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've found that I use entourage about 2 times on the whole crew turn one and it's really nice for sure, then it drops to like 1-2 models and hes just issueing commands the rest of the game from the middle of the board

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also worth noting that due to the intense positioning requirements and things like movements coming in 2 increments, Lucius is incredibly hard to play. Not to mention the obey chain options, where if properly managed Lucius can obey any of his models on the board.

I don't know anyone who has mastered the crew myself xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ooshawn said:

I'm not sure if it's my crippling insomnia or the game I just finished, but I feel like I just had a baby stroke. my mind is so tired. tara vs lucius

Haha, I feel like that after a day of tournaments with Molly. As you get practiced with the crew, some parts of the game will become routine at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it seems like every crew has a model with leap they bring to get into the deployment zones or can go fast. Like I wish I could have remembered to OBS record that game, like...It was like a polar bear finding a baby seal  100ft away from the shore. it was gruesome

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is my first foray into Neverborn. It's been fun messing around with different factions. Ten Thunders was great. Surely I am no expert, but I feel my Honey Pot, Qi & Gong, and Asami game improved substantially. When you start at 0 its not so hard to improve.

Really enjoying Zoraida & Marcus and looking forwadr to messing around with Pandora. 

Ill keep my eyes peeled for strat talk. :)

 

  • Like 3
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@SEV, watched part of your game. Hopefully you'd like some feedback!

  • I think a key thing for winning the game was cutting away his scoring potential.
    • On turn 2/3, when you were nuking Ototo, Desper was standing nearby. Nuking him would have been good because if you killed him, his scoring options would be limited.
    • On turn 3 when you activated Dreamer, Desper had already activated and Misaki was buried. If dreamer had walked over to the last shadow marker and removed it, Misaki may have been stuck on her side of the board (with no symbol point for the turn).
  • You also seemed quite focused on killing, sometimes to the exclusion of scoring (as above).
    • Bogging the enemy down and just winning while they're busy killing your summons is totally legit.
  • I also wonder if you could have sent your widow weaver north and ran scoring with the WW/Bandy pair? They could score six points by themselves if not answered. Not sure what deployment was like.
    • That said, Widow Weaver is pretty great in a fight, especially for the Terrorize ability, so maybe it was the right call to have her with your group.
  • Maybe try to get lucky and don't get paired against a player as good as Kharnage xD

Was still a pretty sweet game to watch!

Also I may not know what I'm talking about, as I don't know Misaki/TT very well.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched like half of turn 1, turn 2 and half of turn 3. My 2 cents:

  • Hinamatsu
    • Should have run to get the symbols on the top half of the board. Moving 14" with her would have given you at least 1 more point.
    • Focusing with Hinamatsu is pretty pointless, since the damage track is quite unimpressive, it's better to do more attacks, so a better positioning would had a better impact.
    • Once you dive Fuhatsu, put Hina in a position that Scatter wouldn't get him out of melee.
    • If someone is trying to steal your stones, just use them :P
  • Serena Bowman
    • She should have moved staying close to the house, which would have given her cover from Fuhatsu.
    • Once she was dead from the Katashiro (such stupid models... being able to get 2 a turn it's bananas), because honestly, after the Demise gets triggered, she's pretty much done, you should had activated her. The idea of protecting her from Misaki wasn't bad,¬†but better to activate her so if she dies, at least you're not giving activation control (and she could have put some damage).
  • Ototo
    • Never go against Ototo unless you're certain you can kill him. Ototo is an amazing model, but with the Grit on, he's a fucking beast.
  • Dreamer
    • Don't be too scared of bringing Dreamer a bit closer to the fight. I didn't see you taking advantage of the Diversion aura, which would have had a massive impact when Ototo used Juggernaut or when Misaki was using her nasty ability to return the cards to the deck (and giving out stunned).
    • Turn 1, instead of the Insidious Madness, Alp + Daydream would have been a better combination. Getting those early lucid dreams would have helped you to get the deck hot earlier + the natural Musk of the Alp would help a bit to keep Misaki/Ototo flipping on :-flip¬†for damage.¬†Also, an Alp is great to make sure you kill Ototo once he reaches 1Wd.
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ShinChan and @Maniacal_cackle thank for the feedback! I agreed with all of your points and I probably did some other mistake during the game.

So 7-3 agains Misaki (4 strats, 2 Reseach, 1 Breakthrough). My Dreamer had 2 strats 1 Breakthrough and 0 research.

The real score should have been around 6-3 (or even 6-4 with some lucky flip). The time went of as I had 2 models to play vs 0 for Kharnage. I could have denied the second point of research and/or score research myself (doing both was going to be though but one or the other were almost a given)... Anyway, still a loss.

I wish I could replay this game!

Here are some generic mistakes that I think could be interesting to talk about (even for people that didn't watch the game) :

1) Deployment mistake. Not deploying the Spiders in the northern part of the board. I was afraid of bot having enough body to protect my symbols... But in retrospect I shouldn't have focus on protecting (pretty pointless vs Misaki AND Desper)  and just forced him to spread (or allow me to pick the 2 juicy symbols at the top of the map)... In the same way, I should have put my 4th symbol as far as possible in the top right corner. 

Take away : Think twice before deploying! Try to deploy in a way as you have as many options as possible (by deploying as I did, I was set in a pretty defensive position from the start).

2) Small positioning mistakes. I'm often guilty of that one (imo this is the technical part of the game we're you can see the broader gab between average and good player). As ShinShan mentioned I could have positioned Serena a little bit better to get her cover (I not sure what was my intend at this moment of the game, but it didn't work). I also must position a summoned Stitch (if positioned well, I could have move on top on the crate to denied a symbol point or at least force my oponent to deal with him before getting the symbol).  Idid several other small positioning  mistakes during the game (fortunately some can be corrected with daydream, but it's still a waste of action).

Take away : Think ahead (what you want to do and what your oponent is most likely to do) before positioning a models (I must admit this is especially hard in tournament game when you try to keep a decent  pace because of the clock). Always try to take advantage of the terrain when your positioning you models.

3) I did several hand/resource management mistake. I often choose to cheat a high card to try to save a model, just to have him die on the next attack... Those cards would have been more useful on the offensive if they allowed me to trade (or achieve something else). This is especially when protecting a models that already activated (so no activation control). I did it for Widow and Serena early because they're key pieces but I failed to recognize that they're fate was already sealed. I also used high cards to achieved the wrong goal. The main example for this was using a 13 of mask on t4 to kill a threatening Katashiro but forgoing my ability to summon anything meaningful that turn. I was aware of this (at least) but still went for the kill. Katashiro was indeed a problem, but I could have summon a Stitch and a daydream there getting them directly near to my opponent deployment... 

Takeaway  : careful with those high cards. Use them for key actions/models but also be flexible (recognizing when your priority order change during the turn). 

4) Go for the points! This is a Malifaux Mantra and even though I'm aware of it, it's easy to get tunel vision or sidetracked from your main goal during the game. As ShinShan said, I should have go far from the fight with Hinamatsu, getting the symbols on the top of the map (+1 points because on T3 I wasn't able to score symbol anyway) and probably help with my scheme (+1/2 points from Breakthrough/Research). I almost did it, than backmoved being afraid to removed my 9ss beater from the conflict and having my position crumble... And yes she helped there, but that didn't worth those 2 or even 3 points that she could have score almost unopposed.

Takeaway: Seize the opportunity to score. Even if that means having one of your big model not impacting the conflict (except obviously if that model can denied more points than he can score, but that was not the cas for me in this example). 

Sorry for the wall of text (in grammatically poor english), I hope that highlighting those mistake can be useful to some of you. It was to me at least : this is 4 points of improvement in my own game. 

GG @Kharnage, please comment on this game if you have a couple of minutes. Thank.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information