How would you expand Asylum?

[Filox]

48 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

A summon upgrade of some kind would be fine. It is worth noting though that Orderlies are plentiful (2) anyway so it's not like they could flood the board or anything. 

 

6 minutes ago, belorey said:

The name of the summon upgrade could be:

Working overtime: when this upgraded is attached the model gains Slow.

This model gain the following action:

Doctor's Orders: Discard a Card. Friendly only. Move the target up to 4".

Orderly are already Rare 2, and giving them good bonus for nothing is too good. I think that Stat 5 against enemy model + suit is enough

[Thatguy]

4 hours ago, Filox said:

I don't think they need slow, this model can only heal to be precise or act as meat for your crew. One weak model per turn for a trigger on a master is not OP. 

It's more a matter of following stages procedure. Most summons come in slow and or injured. And I really would like to see Summon Upgrades become universal to make anti-summon stuff and rules easierb to work with.

 

3 hours ago, belorey said:

Working overtime: when this upgraded is attached the model gains Slow.

This model gain the following action:

Doctor's Orders: Discard a Card. Friendly only. Move the target up to 4".

Exactly I was thinking it could be something beneficial. Like giving them By Your Side. Adding Zombify to turn sounds fun too 

Like Admiral mentioned, they have rare 2, so they aren't going to flood the board. Their Summon upgrade could make them operate more like totems.

[belorey]

I think they must be slow because they would be summoned B2B with an enemy model. And they have Constriction to prevent disengages. So if you mix It with Staggered become very dificult for the other model to scape. If the orderly is slow you can make one attack, and if the  enemie model disengage you have a bonus action (with a card cost) to follow him.

[Filox]

4 minutes ago, belorey said:

Ami think they must be slow because they would be summoned B2B with an enemy model. And they have Constriction to prevent disengages. So if you mix It with Staggered become very dificult for the other model to scape. If the orderly is slow you can make one attack, and if he moves you have a bonus action (with a Card cost) to follow him.

If you put it that way it might be true that they would hold this model good in position or die to it's activation, either way good trade. Yeah, slow might work. But they don't need an upgrade.

[belorey]

1 minute ago, Filox said:

If you put it that way it might be true that they would hold this model good in position or die to it's activation, either way good trade. Yeah, slow might work. But they don't need an upgrade.

Sure they don't need it. But i'm the opinion (as other players) that free summons without an upgrade are too strong. They can denial Let them Bleed too easy. And again, i think this upgrade would mitigate the shenanigans the asylum models would have.

[Cedar]

 

Hi guys, so after a while I decided to expand the keyword a bit more as well as address some issues you raised

On 3/5/2021 at 3:28 AM, admiralvorkraft said:

Instead of View of the Endless can we call that either Hypnotherapy or You Are Getting Sleepy...?

Initially I was thinking about different name, though I wanted to avoid duplicating existing attacks. I changed  the name and added a minor bonus to it.

 

On 3/5/2021 at 5:35 AM, Thatguy said:

I'd probably have them come in slow at least. If not with a summon upgrade. 

On 3/5/2021 at 4:57 PM, belorey said:

Sure they don't need it. But i'm the opinion (as other players) that free summons without an upgrade are too strong. They can denial Let them Bleed too easy. And again, i think this upgrade would mitigate the shenanigans the asylum models would have.

I initially wanted to give them an upgrade, though I decided it's not worth the space - you always summon an Orderly, which are not the toughest models among minions that can be summoned. Now I think that summoning without slow/staggered can create too big swing in the game (even if you are attacking with stat 5 against Wp are you need rams).

Anyway - for the models

I renamed the attack and added an option for it to deal bit more damage against targets that are already staggered 

 

Quote

 

Sigmund Von Horn 13 cost

Master, Living

Asylum

 

5 DF 6 WP 4MV 2SZ

10 wounds, 30mm

 

Persistent Therapy: Enemy models with Staggered that start their Activation engaged by friendly Asylum model must either discard a card, or this model may Drop a Scheme Marker in base contact with them, ignoring LoS.

Protected(Asylum): After this model is targeted by an enemy Attack Action, it may discard a card to change the target to a friendly Asylum model within 2” of this model (ignoring range, LoS and targeting restrictions).

Intuition: At the start of this model’s Activation, it may look at the top three cards of its Fate Deck and then return them in any order.

Sedatives: After a Staggered Condition ends on an enemy model within 6 outside of that model Activation, the enemy model gains Slow.

----------

Attack Actions:

Hypnotherapy (RG: 10”, STAT: 6, RST:  Wp, TN: -): Target suffers 1/2/3 damage and gains Staggered. If the target already has Staggered it suffers +1 damage.

Daze: Target gains Stunned and is Pushed up to 3” in any direction.

 

Dementia (RG: 10”, STAT: 5, RST: Wp, TN: 12): This Action cannot target the same model more than once per Activation. Non-Master only. Place the target anywhere within 3” of its current location. Then, the target takes a non-Charge General Action chosen and controlled by this model.

Involuntary Commitment: Once per Turn. Enemy only. After resolving the generated Action, Summon an Orderly into base contact with the target, it gains Slow.

Touch of Madness: Target Discards a random card.

Tactical Actions:

Emergency Surgery (RG: 2”, STAT: 7, RST: -, TN: 10): Other Living model only. Target Heals 1/2/3.

Pulled Here and There: Push either this model or the target up to 3”.

Dark Bargain (RG: 6”, STAT: 6, RST: -, TN: 10): Friendly only. Target suffers 1 damage and may then take the Interact Action.

  Burn Out: Target suffers 2 damage and gains Fast. 

 

 

I'm quite happy how the Totem looks like, so I decided to not change it.

Quote

 

Ian Connor 8 Cost

Enforcer, Living

Asylum

 

6 DF 5 WP 5MV 2SZ

8 wounds, 30mm

 

By Your Side: At the start of this model’s Activation, it may discard a card to Place itself within 2” of a friendly non-Minion that shares a Keyword with it.

Hostile Work Environment: Enemy models within 6 may not be targeted by the Actions of other enemy models.

Restraining Tactics: Friendly Asylum models within 6 increase the range of their Actions by +1”

Restraints: Enemy models with Staggered that are engaged by this model are ignored by their controller for the purposes of Strategies and Schemes.

Research Specimens: After this model kills an enemy model, this model may draw a card.

Hard to Kill: When this model suffers damage, if it has 2 or more Health, it may not be reduced to below 1 Health.

----------

Attack Actions: 

Staggering Punch (RG: 0”, STAT: 6, RST:  Df, TN: -): Target suffers 2/3/4 damage and gains Staggered.

You’re Comin’ with Me: Push the target up to 3” in any direction, then Place this model into base contact with it.

Can’t Breathe: Target must have Staggered. When resolving, the target suffers +2 damage.

Lead the Way (RG: 2”, STAT: 6, RST:  Df, TN: 11): This Action cannot target the same model more than once per Activation. Target model is Pushed 4” in any direction, then Push this model up to 4” toward the target.

Sudden Strike: This model may take a Action.

Tactical Actions:

Electroshock Therapy(Rg: 6”, STAT: 6, RST:  -, TN: 14): Enemy Models within range must each pass a TN 12 Wp duel or suffer 1 damage and gain Staggered. Models that already had Staggered when this Action was declared and failed the duel must discard a card each.

Surge: Draw a card.

 

 

And for the new models - the Henchman who embodies the "drain their resources" mentality - either by forcing the discards or making enemy cheat a lot of the duels. She came to Malifaux after few investigations Earthside discovered abnormal number of patients who died on her shifts. After meeting Sigmunt Von Horn, she was offered a job at the Asylum, which she gladly took. Together with Dr Grimwell she is one of most trusted staff members by the Director Von Horn. Definitely not the kind of nurse you want to meet.

Quote

 

Sister Sprosser cost 8

Henchman, Living

Asylum

 

5 DF 6 WP 5MV 2SZ

8 wounds, 30mm

 

Flexible Morality: After an enemy model targets this model with an Attack Action, the enemy model must either discard a card or suffer a to its duel.

In My Care: When targeting a model with Staggered, this model’s Attack Actions receive + to their duels.

You Are Free to Go: This model does not have engagement range.

Sedatives: After a Staggered Condition ends on an enemy model within 6 outside of that model Activation, the enemy model gains Slow.

Seen It All: This model cannot gain the Stunned Condition.
----------

Attack Actions: 

Lethal Injection (RG: 0”, STAT: 7, RST:  Df, TN: -): Target suffers 1/2/3 and gains Poison +1.

Execute: The target may either discard a card or a Soulstone. If it does neither, it is killed, ignoring Demise Abilities.

Surge: Draw a card.

Alchemical Vial (RG: 8”, STAT: 5, RST:  *, TN: 10): Shockwave 2, Mv 13, Damage 2 and Poison +1.

Choking Gas: Once per Activation. Models damaged by this Action suffer Staggered and are Pushed 2” away from the Marker.

Tactical Actions:

...Embrace of Death (RG: 6”, STAT: 6, RST:  -, TN: 14): After an enemy model with Staggered within range is killed, add one Soulstone to this Crew’s Soulstone Pool.

Warm…: Friendly models within range Heal 1.

Cold…: Enemy models within range must each pass a TN 11 Mv duel or gain Slow.

Benevolent...: One friendly model within range may end one condition on itself and move 2”.

Harsh...: Enemy models within range must each pass a TN 12 Wp duel or gain Injured +1.

Doctor’s Orders (RG: 6”, STAT: -, RST:  -, TN: -): Discard a card. Friendly only. Move the target up to 4”.

 

 

While the good sister prefers to pick her targets carefully, the Brute just goes straight into the fray. One of former patients, his violent outbursts combined with enormous posture caused few problems to the staff (including need to hire new employees). Thankfully, the amazing work of Asylum Staff cured him... at least partially. Now he helps with pacifying other patients (both actual and potential ones)  He is THE beater for the keyword, able to engage in combat with some other big guys.

Quote

 

The Brute 10 Cost

Enforcer, Living

Asylum

 

6 DF 6 WP 5MV 3SZ

10 wounds, 40mm

Ruthless: This model ignores the Terrifying and Manipulative Abilities of other models.

Research Specimens: After this model kills an enemy model, this model may draw a card.

Constriction: Enemy models engaged by this model suffer a to duels generated by the Disengage Action.

Hard to Wound: Damage flips against this model suffer a .

Survivalist: When this model Heals, it Heals an additional +1.
----------

Attack Actions: 

Beatdown (RG: 1”, STAT: 6, RST:  Df, TN: -): Target suffers 3/4/5 damage.

Break Their Bones: When resolving, if the target has Stagger it suffers +1 damage. Otherwise, it gains Stagger.

Puncture: When resolving, this Action’s damage flip receives a for each in the final duel total (to a maximum of ).

Good for a Laugh: Draw two cards, then discard a card.

Toss (RG: 2”, STAT: 3, RST:  Sz, TN: -): Target a model with lower Sz than this model. Push the target up to 10” in any direction. If this push is interrupted, the Pushed model and models in base contact with it must each pass a TN 14 Df duel or suffer 2 damage.

Coordinated Attack: Another friendly model may take a Action targeting the same model.

Tactical Actions:

Juggernaut (RG: -, STAT: -, RST:  -, TN: -): Discard a card. This model Heals 1/2/4.

 

 Lastly - Asylum Interns. Young people with heads filled with dreams and ideals, willing to learn how to help those in need. They embody everything when it comes to trainees - quite expendable and annoying with their tons of questions. They are not familiar with some quite violent procedures that are performed to the patients. Regardless of their flaws, they are quite good at running errands for more experienced colleagues.

Quote

Asylum Intern Cost 4

Minion (3), Living 

Asylum

 

4 DF 4 WP 4 MV 2 SZ

4 wounds, 30mm

Manipulative: If this model has not Activated this turn, enemy Attack Actions that target this model suffer a to their duel.

Demise (Expendable): After this model is killed, its controller draws a card.

Don’t Mind Me: This model may take the Interact Action while engaged or if it has taken the Disengage Action this Activation.

“I Haven’t Seen It All”: After an enemy model is killed by a friendly model that shares a keyword with this model, one model with this Ability may gain Stunned Condition to move up to 4”.

----------

Attack Actions: 

Sharp Wit (RG: 1”, STAT: 4, RST:  Wp, TN: -): Target gains Slow.

Tactical Actions:

Annoying (RG: 2”, STAT: -, RST:  -, TN: -): Until the End Phase, after an enemy model within range declares a Tactical Action other than Walk or Charge it gains Distracted +1. 

Study (RG: 6”, STAT: 5, RST:  -, TN: 12): Target a Scrap or Corpse Marker. Drop a Scheme Marker into base contact with the target, then remove the target.

Let me guys know how do you like the models  

 

 

[Thatguy]

I like it. I think I would try to build Sister Sprosser to be both Asylum and Revenant since she's a nun. 

I think I'd also drop The Brute to Wp 4 or even 3 like Papa Loco and Fuhatsu, other "crazy" characters. 

[Filox]

WYRD pls copy paste into the game!

[belorey]

2 hours ago, Cedar said:

Tactical Actions:

...Embrace of Death (RG: 6”, STAT: -, RST:  -, TN: 14): After an enemy model with Staggered within range is killed, add one Soulstone to this Crew’s Soulstone Pool.

Warm…: Friendly models within range Heal 1.

Cold…: Enemy models within range must each pass a TN 11 Mv duel or gain Slow.

Benevolent...: One friendly model within range may end one condition on itself and move 2”.

Harsh...: Enemy models within range must each pass a TN 12 Wp duel or gain Injured +1.

I like because outside of Dashel nobody can get SS on Guild, but withot Stat means that the only way to get this is with the RJ right? very hard to get, first the RJ, the you must be able to give Staggered to a model and then you must kill him within 6" of Sister Sprosser to get a SS.

[Cedar]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I like it. I think I would try to build Sister Sprosser to be both Asylum and Revenant since she's a nun. 

This may be mistake on my side due to language differences - in Polish we often refer to nurses per "sister", I don't know if it's same thing in English. She is definitely not a nun, just a regular nurse (who also has passion for ending patients suffering for good)  

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I think I'd also drop The Brute to Wp 4 or even 3 like Papa Loco and Fuhatsu, other "crazy" characters. 

 That's good point. I wanted to give him high WP stat so he could have chance against those pesky lures and obeys, but you're right, he should be WP 3-4.

 

13 minutes ago, belorey said:

I like because outside of Dashel nobody can get SS on Guild, but withot Stat means that the only way to get this is with the RJ right? very hard to get, first the RJ, the you must be able to give Staggered to a model and then you must kill him within 6" of Sister Sprosser to get a SS.

My mistake - it should be stat 6, so it would work on 8. It's situational soulstone gain and I think something like card with value of 8-9 should be enough.

 

1 hour ago, Filox said:

WYRD pls copy paste into the game!

Would be nice, but I doubt it'll happen  

[belorey]

7 minutes ago, Cedar said:

My mistake - it should be stat 6, so it would work on 8. It's situational soulstone gain and I think something like card with value of 8-9 should be enough.

Yes i was going to edit my post to suggest a stat of 6 too. I really like it, i would like to see this keyword on table and play with them. 

[Filox]

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I like it. I think I would try to build Sister Sprosser to be both Asylum and Revenant since she's a nun. 

I think I'd also drop The Brute to Wp 4 or even 3 like Papa Loco and Fuhatsu, other "crazy" characters. 

For 10 SS model he does not do a lot (no third action, lacks any support to crew besides desummoning enemy models), but if you would like to reduce his Wp to 3 like to any other crazy models maybe give him a Head in the Clouds?

[Thatguy]

8 minutes ago, Filox said:

if you would like to reduce his Wp to 3 like to any other crazy models maybe give him a Head in the Clouds?

That could work. 

I was thinking maybe Numskull and maybe Grit (Frantic). Would fit for big brain surgeried guy. 

58 minutes ago, Cedar said:

That's good point. I wanted to give him high WP stat so he could have chance against those pesky lures and obeys, but you're right, he should be WP 3-4.

Maybe something like:

Requires Supervision: If this model is within 6" of a model that shares a keyword with it and it would take an action outside its activation, its owner may discard a card not to.

Sorta like: Unyielding, but only with Asylum babysitting. 

[LeperColony]

I think it should be a phrenologist, probably a negative condition or upgrade themed model.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, LeperColony said:

I think it should be a phrenologist, probably a negative condition or upgrade themed model.

🤣 love the idea of using outdated science! Leeches would be cool too, but that's probably not quite era appropriate.

[Thatguy]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

🤣 love the idea of using outdated science! Leeches would be cool too, but that's probably not quite era appropriate.

Are Lobotomies and electro-shock not outdated enough? Lol

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Thatguy said:

Are Lobotomies and electro-shock not outdated enough? Lol

I think both of those are at least kinda still used, in that electro-shock is used in extreme cases of epilepsy, and some forms of intentional brain damage are done (again, for epilepsy I think). But yeah, good point xD

[admiralvorkraft]

Leeches are also occasionally still used, as are maggots. Both in very specific ways and instances but I'm not a doctor so don't quote me 😛

[Nikshe]

Asylum needs some new minions too (It will be nice core box - Master,  totem, hench, enforcer and 3 minions, like in the English Ivan's box).
I think about some patients-in-the-middle-of therapy. They can have many Wounds but be damaged by 1 for every non-damaging action they perform. In TTB there were a concept of Wrath Fetishes and good arts for that sort of minions.

[Cedar]

3 hours ago, Nikshe said:

I think about some patients-in-the-middle-of therapy. They can have many Wounds but be damaged by 1 for every non-damaging action they perform. In TTB there were a concept of Wrath Fetishes and good arts for that sort of minions.

that's nice idea, i like it.

[hydranixx]

On 3/5/2021 at 11:20 AM, Cedar said:

Dementia (RG: 10”, STAT: 5, RST: Wp, TN: 12): This Action cannot target the same model more than once per Activation. Non-Master only. Place the target anywhere within 3” of its current location. Then, the target takes a non-Charge General Action chosen and controlled by this model.

Involuntary Commitment: Once per Turn. Enemy only. After resolving the generated Action, Summon an Orderly into base contact with the target. 

Touch of Madness: Target Discards a random card.

 

I love the theme of pretty everything that you've suggested as concepts, but I think this action is absurdly powerful against low WP models.

With a 10" reach, you get to 

• Place a model 3", possibly straight into Severe/Hazardous, or just over a wall/into Severe so that the model is no longer relevant, or into base contact with its own Scheme Markers/ destructible Terrain Markers, so that it then;
• Gets pseudo-obeyed to remove its own Markers, or just Walks somewhere where it becomes even more irrelevant (possibly walk into Severe/Hazardous).
• Summon a significant model into base contact with it if you hit a , which at this point can easily be 18-20" away from Sigmund, which is an insanely long distance to Summon a model.

Granted the stat is only 5, but if your opponent has mediocre WP, which is common on many beater models and in some cases entire crews, you still probably win with a good card, and if that happens to your WP 4 beater essentially making it irrelevant for 1-2 turns, that's gonna be a pretty big NPE.

I'd probably look at increasing the Stat to 6 but reducing/altering its raw power a bit, by applying some combination of:

• Reduce the range of the action and/or the Place.
• Or remove the Place entirely.
• Or change the General Action effect to just be a straight 4" push in any direction rather than a General Action.

To be clear, I adore the theme of the action itself (and the Master concept as a whole), but I think this specific Action does way too much to low WP models, struggles against high WP models, and flat out doesn't touch masters, so it could be NPE at times for both players. 

[belorey]

18 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

I love the theme of pretty everything that you've suggested as concepts, but I think this action is absurdly powerful against low WP models.

With a 10" reach, you get to 

• Place a model 3", possibly straight into Severe/Hazardous, or just over a wall/into Severe so that the model is no longer relevant, or into base contact with its own Scheme Markers/ destructible Terrain Markers, so that it then;
• Gets pseudo-obeyed to remove its own Markers, or just Walks somewhere where it becomes even more irrelevant (possibly walk into Severe/Hazardous).
• Summon a significant model into base contact with it if you hit a , which at this point can easily be 18-20" away from Sigmund, which is an insanely long distance to Summon a model.

Granted the stat is only 5, but if your opponent has mediocre WP, which is common on many beater models and in some cases entire crews, you still probably win with a good card, and if that happens to your WP 4 beater essentially making it irrelevant for 1-2 turns, that's gonna be a pretty big NPE.

I'd probably look at increasing the Stat to 6 but reducing/altering its raw power a bit, by applying some combination of:

• Reduce the range of the action and/or the Place.
• Or remove the Place entirely.
• Or change the General Action effect to just be a straight 4" push in any direction rather than a General Action.

To be clear, I adore the theme of the action itself (and the Master concept as a whole), but I think this specific Action does way too much to low WP models, struggles against high WP models, and flat out doesn't touch masters, so it could be NPE at times for both players. 

Yes, maybe remove the place and increase the Stat to 6/7 is better option.

[Cedar]

@hydranixx thanks for the feedback  That was my initial concern too - that the action creates too big swing. Thanks for suggestions, I'll think about something  

[Filox]

4 hours ago, hydranixx said:

I love the theme of pretty everything that you've suggested as concepts, but I think this action is absurdly powerful against low WP models.

With a 10" reach, you get to 

• Place a model 3", possibly straight into Severe/Hazardous, or just over a wall/into Severe so that the model is no longer relevant, or into base contact with its own Scheme Markers/ destructible Terrain Markers, so that it then;
• Gets pseudo-obeyed to remove its own Markers, or just Walks somewhere where it becomes even more irrelevant (possibly walk into Severe/Hazardous).
• Summon a significant model into base contact with it if you hit a , which at this point can easily be 18-20" away from Sigmund, which is an insanely long distance to Summon a model.

Granted the stat is only 5, but if your opponent has mediocre WP, which is common on many beater models and in some cases entire crews, you still probably win with a good card, and if that happens to your WP 4 beater essentially making it irrelevant for 1-2 turns, that's gonna be a pretty big NPE.

I'd probably look at increasing the Stat to 6 but reducing/altering its raw power a bit, by applying some combination of:

• Reduce the range of the action and/or the Place.
• Or remove the Place entirely.
• Or change the General Action effect to just be a straight 4" push in any direction rather than a General Action.

To be clear, I adore the theme of the action itself (and the Master concept as a whole), but I think this specific Action does way too much to low WP models, struggles against high WP models, and flat out doesn't touch masters, so it could be NPE at times for both players. 

What about increasing stat 6 and making the action being only Able to place model Within 3 and add trigger that let's you made an non-charge general or make it an obey that let's you declare with genera action and add push here or there trigger 

[Thatguy]

Was thinking about this thread and thought maybe we should steal something from Test Subjects for Assylum Models. Like Shock Therapy. 

5 hours ago, hydranixx said:

love the theme of pretty everything that you've suggested as concepts, but I think this action is absurdly powerful against low WP models

I think it is really strong too, but it is on a Master model and Stat 5. Like Leveticus's unit deleting attack it's good but not guarented to get off. 

I was honestly more concerned any summoning a significant model at 10" and being able to place/walk it before it actives.