ooshawn Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 On 3/5/2021 at 3:41 PM, Plaag said: and talking abt 15ss limitation for ook and versatiles-what should do keywords of parker, reva, mcmorning, nellie, seamus, perdita, mccabe and some others-that just need to hire those ook and versatiles to play on good, not op, level? wyrd needs to take the league of legends, street fighter, apex legends approach and update the rules instead of being like PUBG/H1Z1 or some similar game that the creators got too complacent and got replaced. There's way too many miniature games out there to be complacement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 11 hours ago, ooshawn said: wyrd needs to take the league of legends, street fighter, apex legends approach and update the rules instead of being like PUBG/H1Z1 or some similar game that the creators got too complacent and got replaced. There's way too many miniature games out there to be complacement Egg-cactly. Wyrd’s already got a system of annual revision through the Gaining Grounds rules. It’s got an app to get changes out - despite their problems with retail distribution - so the logistics are in place. And they are listening - just see what happened to Dashel, going from garbage to Guild hero in one errata. Moreover its pretty apparent to the playerbase, where and what models are lacking. So perfectly understandable if some keywords got a total overhaul. - It’s more a question of where to go with the game. As others I’d love to see a game that allows me to tinker and choose between the 100ish models in each faction, if I want to play McMourning and the Ladies of the Redchapel I should have the option to do so. Its a game, we ‘play’ it for fun - and the variety in model choice is a big bart of it. However in a tournament setting, where the focus of the game is more on ‘winning’, I wouldn’t want model choice compromise the variety, by offering ‘the obvious choice’ across the board. I want master choices to make a difference and set the tone, so I’m not just playing vs. Faction all stars. - That said, its really tough to balance these things out. Wyrds done a Terrific job so far, and as a minimum they shake things up via GG on a regular basis - and that’s better than most 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 A year is a long time in the gaming world. After a year you need to put out MEANINGFUL changes that really shake up the meta. that's like 12 patches in apex legends or like i have no idea, maybe 3 season passes, something like that. The app is the future, if people want to sit at home and play with the original rules, that's a fantastic thing and I will be doing that with second edition for grow leagues because it has a dedicated book for that. However, with digital distribution like they have got , especially during these strange times they need to get with the program, and get the ball rolling. Maybe It's just because I'm not in the "IN" crowd, but I feel like they are not listening or at least I don't see any indication on the forums of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 A lot of these changes that models need aren't rocket science and it wouldn't be so catastrophic to be incorrect if they weren't so laissez-faire with their game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muraki Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, ooshawn said: A lot of these changes that models need aren't rocket science and it wouldn't be so catastrophic to be incorrect if they weren't so laissez-faire with their game Seriously dude? Wyrd clearly cares about their game, they're putting out releases all the time + doing balance posts / etc. If you hate the company and what they're doing so much, I'm sure there's other games for you to play. Feel free to go find them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, muraki said: they're putting out releases all the time + doing balance posts None of that is balance changes, which my post was talking about. so this is completely unrelated to me. 6 minutes ago, muraki said: you hate the company and what they're doing so much, I'm sure there's other games for you to play. Feel free to go find them. I don't see where you got this from. It's possible you are just a emotional thinker and inject your own opinions into other peoples thoughts. So this pretty much doesn't have anything to do with me. 6 minutes ago, muraki said: Seriously dude? you sound very offended. I'm not the type of person to just have some sort of fake, praise based relationship with the people that make one of the many games I play. I state my thoughts as they come to me. You can either let it bother you or not. I don't really care. I won't comprimise my integrity for you or anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 Also I think you are conflating laissez-faire with not caring. It helps sometimes to facilitate conversation to understand the meaning of words the other person is using. So that word just means a hands off management approach where they aren't micromanaging things all the time from month to month like apex legends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 34 minutes ago, ooshawn said: Also I think you are conflating laissez-faire with not caring. It helps sometimes to facilitate conversation to understand the meaning of words the other person is using. So that word just means a hands off management approach where they aren't micromanaging things all the time from month to month like apex legends. Too many changes, too constantly makes a tabletop minis game terrible and bleed players (looks at warmahordes during their "a CID every month" time). Making frequent changes might be fine for card games where switching up your deck could cost money but doesn't cost time in assembly & painting, and is perfectly fine for video games where all the changes are automatically implemented and responding to changes just take game time. Both video games and card games can also be played very quickly, which allows players to more easily gain practice with the new changes. Vassal/TTS might help with getting in more practice with changes (compared to the days when you'd go to the FLGS once or twice a week), but you're still looking at 2+ hours a game, which leads to frequent changes actually effing up balance more than it helps. It may look laissez-faire to you, but it's probably not, given the difference between tabletop minis and other game types. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/5/2021 at 8:41 PM, Plaag said: and talking abt 15ss limitation for ook and versatiles-what should do keywords of parker, reva, mcmorning, nellie, seamus, perdita, mccabe and some others-that just need to hire those ook and versatiles to play on good, not op, level? Amusingly I actually run all of those masters (well not seamus) normally with very little OOK so I could probably run my standard crews in a tourney like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Cats Laughing said: Too many changes, too constantly makes a tabletop minis game terrible and bleed players (looks at warmahordes during their "a CID every month" time). So true. You have to be a pretty dedicated mini gamer, if you get more than one game in every fortnight. Indeed I Personally get the majority of my games in by tournament participation. The ROI on constant iteration is irrelevant for the majority of wyrd-ies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 I think listening to the community is a good way to get the all stars to disappear. The hivemind seeks strong combos and regularity finds them. If buffed/nerfed appropriately the game will come to a state of balance, I which a majority of models get to see action. I would love to see that happening. I don’t know wyrds policy for long but they seem to make a good job the me. I enjoy close and thrilling games. If wyrd wants to keep me a customer and supporting the game through recruiting new players, I want my beloved masters to be as good as others. And in an ideal situation all the models of my keyword are essential to the komplexity of the Game. on the other side I dislike games in which I get a feeling of being powerless to enemy tactics, attacks or combos. Eg: I really hate irreducible damage or combos like toshiro&massive corpse generation to spam ashigaru (because they are a real pain to deal with). esp. toshiro and several others are cheap, so even if taxed ook they seem way better than some keyword model and that can be easily fixed by wyrd as these models/combos are addressed clearly and don’t remain secret...! edit: and then there won’t be much errata necessary! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 I was thinking Bi-annual, maybe? and that's for like small stuff and then big stuff(IF needed) so like Archie changes once a year, and like +1 to TN type stuff the other patch. Yeah it really only effects people who would care, like people who play every month in those online tournaments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 5 hours ago, ooshawn said: A year is a long time in the gaming world. I think M3E has been out for 2 years. In that time, they've launched: A rehash of the strategy and schemes (Gaining Grounds 0) Completely new set of strategy and schemes (Gaining Grounds 1) A huge set of errata that altered how many factions played (Archie, Soulstone Miner, Yasanori, etc). An entirely new faction. So I'd say the pace is pretty good. What we're witnessing at the moment is the huge amount of work that it took to make Explorer's Society happen, so that was a lot of their development time not spent on the rest of the game. Rumour has it we will shortly see GG2 and/or a bunch of new errata for models. And overall the game has worked pretty well. The only thing truly broken with the game might be some explorer's society stuff, and it is understandable that hasn't been fixed since it has been around for like two months. So I think that's why some people are responding so strongly to your points. Also note that a mini game has to move a bit slower in terms of rules updates. Sometimes it takes me a year to purchase, assemble, and paint a crew. I'd be a bit salty if my crew went from middle range to broken to unplayable in the space of the year from multiple errata (which has happened when I have started building MTG decks for example). I know I'm on the slow side of things for minis, but many people operate somewhat slowly with getting their crews onto the table. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 true, but if everything everyone said was agreeable or not provoking then we would all just be sitting around agreeing with each other. I've never been interested in that type of discourse. I love strong responses to get conversations flowing that make people actually feel something, but outbursts of non-rational emotional energy are not as interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, ooshawn said: true, but if everything everyone said was agreeable or not provoking then we would all just be sitting around agreeing with each other. I've never been interested in that type of discourse. I love strong responses to get conversations flowing that make people actually feel something, but outbursts of non-rational emotional energy are not as interesting. You can't be provocative and then get surprised when people respond strongly xD Although I personally like that you keep things lively, but can be good to be mindful of how passionate people are. For me at the moment, the vassal series is the one fun thing I've been getting to do each week due to health issues and personal life stuff, so I'm pretty passionate about: 1. Wyrd and Malifaux are super flipping awesome. 2. They should do better xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 You're quite right about that first point. I've loved wyrd since I saw eric and nathans first models painted up on coolminiornot. I used to hit them up on facebook back in the day and kiss their asses Because I'm such a fan boy. Anyone who thinks I'm not passionate about malifaux is just not in touch with who I am as a person. I've tried to be a part of the Public betas for m2e and M3e and I'm just too socially handicapped to make it work. I always end up just getting "passionate" about the models I play. I know i'll probably never be allowed to have my opinion count for for any rules development because of this. Doesn't mean I don't wish it did though lol sorry to hear about you're health : [ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, ooshawn said: You're quite right about that first point. I've loved wyrd since I saw eric and johns first models painted up on hot or not. I used to hit them up on facebook back in the day and kiss their asses Because I'm such a fan boy. Anyone who thinks I'm not passionate about malifaux is just not in touch with who I am as a person. I've tried to be a part of the Public betas for m2e and M3e and I'm just too socially handicapped to make it work. I always end up just getting "passionate" about the models I play. I know i'll probably never be allowed to have my opinion count for for any rules development because of this. Doesn't mean I don't wish it did though lol sorry to hear about you're health : [ If it helps, I think Wyrd is hugely influenced by player opinion (perhaps too much some would argue). So even just engaging on conversations has an impact. However, the bigger impact you can do is write up battle reports in the battle report forums. From my understanding, actual games are what they take most seriously (although I assume they're using M3E app data as a major source now, so make sure to submit completed games with accurate scores). Personally their use of the M3E data worries me (because it is very rare to see people handle data bias well), but I suppose it is better than nothing xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 What happens if you pick Mr Ngaatoro or Fuhatsu as your Leader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said: What happens if you pick Mr Ngaatoro or Fuhatsu as your Leader? Then you get as many versatiles as you want! Or they just don't work in the format. TOs choice I guess xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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