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I was looking through forums for a m2e solo archie model and came upon a picture of what I think is a nightmare ulix crew. I kinda stopped in my tracks for a second to check it out because all the nightmare models and crews have just been things of beauty that I have literally bought every single one at one point or another. 

When I saw this crew though, I just was like.....who is this marketed to? Rainbow horses after years of pirate molly, nightmare lcb, 1985 mei feng. Just sick crew after sick crew. I know there are people that will buy it, but it just seems so unaesthetic. Ive never even seen someone type the word ulix or seen that crew online painted. Maybe that's why this crew needed to be made. I mean it's whatever. If anything I'm glad I don't like it because it's one less thing to buy. But I do appreciate when wyrd puts out stuff I can awe at and be super jealous of. This just ain't it 

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They seem like something I would make if I was trying to like draw in or virtue signal to lgbtq+ gamers. Like It seems so catered to that sort of personality, it's almost kinda bothersome in it's lowbrow delivery. I mean to each his own. I hope people get a lot of enjoyment out of it. It's just not my type of pretty I guess

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38 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

They seem like something I would make if I was trying to like draw in or virtue signal to lgbtq+ gamers. Like It seems so catered to that sort of personality, it's almost kinda bothersome in it's lowbrow delivery. I mean to each his own. I hope people get a lot of enjoyment out of it. It's just not my type of pretty I 

Really? All I see in this statement is your own prejudice.

Unicorns are for everyone... as are farts 😀.

 

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38 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

They seem like something I would make if I was trying to like draw in or virtue signal to lgbtq+ gamers. Like It seems so catered to that sort of personality, it's almost kinda bothersome in it's lowbrow delivery. I mean to each his own. I hope people get a lot of enjoyment out of it. It's just not my type of pretty I guess

Are you familiar with My Little Pony? It is clearly a spoof on that.

That said, I'd love for them to cater to the LGBTQ+ gamers!

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As someone who doesn't have any interest in playing Bayou at all, when I got a Sparkle Steed as a freebie in one of the big sales my brain went "Ok, this is amazing, I have to find some way to use this". I ended up shying away from getting myself a Ulix crew and instead ended up using it for a really entertaining D&D encounter with the players coming across a raging rabid unicorn that couldn't turn corners and kept slamming into trees and rocks and characters whenever it did charge attacks and hurting itself quite badly. One of the more entertaining combats I've ever run. My players now use that unicorn as a pack mule. 

 

Meanwhile, one of my friends now has a full Nightmare Ulix crew and I am beyond jealous that I passed up on the chance to own it first :(

 

But yeah, just be careful with some of your loaded terminology there mate. It's ok to not like an aesthetic, but the implication in the phrase "virtue signalling" does run contrary to the following statement of "to each their own". As you yourself say, it's ok for people to like different things.

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Does Malifaux have any cool LBTQA+ characters already? Would be neat to have some things like:

  • A middle aged same-sex couple, that spent their early decades campaigning for recognition of same-sex couples, and as a result Malifaux is further ahead of Earth in terms of acceptance.
    • Probably Guild or Arcanists for extra influence?
  • A proper gender-fluid character that can change gender at will (using the replace mechanic?), or at some specified time (like turns 2 and 4 spent as one character, turns 1/3/5 spent as the other).
  • Etc
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2 hours ago, ooshawn said:

They seem like something I would make if I was trying to like draw in or virtue signal to lgbtq+ gamers. Like It seems so catered to that sort of personality, it's almost kinda bothersome in it's lowbrow delivery. I mean to each his own. I hope people get a lot of enjoyment out of it. It's just not my type of pretty I guess

You went to a lot of effort to complain about a nearly 3 year old nightmare box to just go "to each their own".

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Interesting thread. First of all I agree with the sentiment of rather avoiding phrases like 'virtue-signalling to LGBTQ+ people'. It raises red flags because you immideately come across like those 'anti-sjw' types who idolize Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and are all in all just plain bad people.

On the topic of the Ullix Nightmare Crew I'm with ManiacalCackle and think it's a popculture reference to My Little Pony - Friendship is Magic, just like Nightmare Molly is Pirates of the Caribbean, Nightmare Mei is Cyberpunk and Nightmare McCabe is Mad Max. 

Unicorns and My Little Pony aren't quite my cup tea either, and I think it's fine to just discuss when you don't get a certain aesthetic or kind of humor. I personally really dislike Fuhatsu, because I feel like his mental disability is played for laughs with the whole 'can't keep up his pants' thing. So I'm thankful for Miss Guided.

In reference to LGBTQ+ characters, I would have really liked Mei Feng to be homo- or bisexual. She's tough, carries a certain unisex vibe of femininity (if that makes sense), and is all in it for her people. Not too keen on her having a thing for English Ivan, but it is what it is. Will be interesting to see where her story goes. 

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4 hours ago, Maogrim said:

In reference to LGBTQ+ characters, I would have really liked Mei Feng to be homo- or bisexual. She's tough, carries a certain unisex vibe of femininity (if that makes sense), and is all in it for her people.

As a sociologist I have to say that you are just reporducing cis-gender steroetypes with your take on typical homo- or bisexual characteristics ;)

When it comes to pop culture (recreational games like Malifaux are part of it) you can only fail when you try to "do everything right" as it is a very complex topic and you can't count on everybody involved on being on the same level of knowledge and/or reflection. Comparing to all other TTGs I know Wyrd really has done an awesome job in offering a divers cast for telling her tales of Malifaux.

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4 minutes ago, Harlekin said:

As a sociologist I have to say that you are just reporducing cis-gender steroetypes with your take on typical homo- or bisexual characteristics ;)

Cool. Now I feel talked down upon and even a little insulted and embarassed. 

I didn't mean my take on LGBT Mei in a 'Martial Arts chick's totally butch yo' way. I thought that she'd be a good character as she's probably one of the few masters in Malifaux that one could sympathise with and because her design isn't very sexualized and neither too gender-specific in either way of the spectrum. 

But I guess as I am merely a historian and 85% straight I am probably not qualified to voice my opinion on what might be appropriate represantation of LGBTQ characters. 

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1) Everyone and noone is equally qualified (or not qualified) to voice one's opinion on such a complex matter. 

2) There most likely isn't any appropriate representation for such a complex topic*

*which is the main problem when it comes to such topics. Appropriate representation would have to address the matter of everyday sexism as much as ~500+ years of disrimination as much as this disrimination taking even violent forms (within political/religious regimes) as much as underrepresentation as much as stereotyping as much as... It's a task inherently determined to fail. Not even contemporary science (gender studies, historical science, sociology, philosophy, biology, medicine -  among others) has come close to address the topic in an appropriate matter (which isn't achievable, anyways - see science)

So, sorry @Maogrim, my intend was not to insult or embarass you but to show that we have to fail any such endeavor as to represent anything/anyone suffering from systematic (analytically speaking) discrimination. Even more so within our context of enjoying gaming with puppets whose designs are based on popcultural references. 

And this explicitely includes me as a professional who is regularly envolved in research on said topic. 

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@Harlekin Thanks for clarifying and sorry for reacting so petty. But I was writing with best intentions, so that 'Actually you're just reinforcing oppressive stereotypes' (or so I took it) really hurt.

I do respect your expertise, but I feel like the logical conclusion to your arguments would be to not even try our hands at respectful representation whatsoever, and that's not really getting us anywhere either. 

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I think most things could use more representation including Malifaux.  Full stop. 

Of course there's no template for 'fair/accurate' representation.  I also know what one person would think would be fun another may think is a gross stereotype, but just cause it's hard doesn't mean Wyrd shouldn't try.  Simply put, there's a lot of LGBT+ folks in the world, so why wouldn't it be the same in Malifaux?

I personally think Wyrd could add some LGBT+ characters and do it well, because the company's models have already been moving past the 'cheesecake' phase of model design, and they've always tried to create strong female characters that don't feel exploitative.  There may be some missteps (as anything built by a fairly small team based in the US who may not have a lot of diversity in house could be) but it's worth the effort... and (personally) I'd take some slight missteps over never having anything / scrutinizing art/lore for things that could code-read as LGBT+.

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6 minutes ago, ooshawn said:

Even if it's a old nightmare crew, I figured it would make some for good discussion

It works... So let me shamlessly ride (😉) on the popularity off this thread since I'm looking for conversion idea for exactly this nightmare crew (aka unicorns for all).

Here :

 

 

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So virtue signaling is A bad term to use? I'm not political in any sense and I literally have never voted or spent a hour watching the news. I'll try to remember that. I just use words as I think they best fit my meaning. That one seemed to fit the best for me, if it was a weird marketing thing. 

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A hot thread that doesn't include any references to Nekima? To the rescue!

1 hour ago, muraki said:

the company's models have already been moving past the 'cheesecake' phase of model design,

First off, I think Cheesecake Nekima (first edition, second edition Nekima made her feel small and wimpy) is the best, true Nekima. I've got off on other threads about how being the most Nephilim-y Nephilim but also being someone who now spontaneously wants to wear normal human clothes while the rest of them are cool with loinclothes and underwear is dumb, so I won't go into that too much here, but her character design feels right to me in that space. If a guardsman hesitates to pull a trigger because monster lady pretty, she's already clearly not into armor, so why not, you know?

Secondly, to bring a topic to light that was discussed privately previously; we had what I thought was a pretty successful He-Kome release. What if.... He-kima?

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